Legal EPO boost?

ADIHEAD

Riding buddy of mine as just ordered some of this http://www.epoboost.com/?gclid=CPWp6srx ... 4QodQxz2Zg

He's generally the gullible type so I'm a bit concerned. Does anyone know anything about this particular product? Is it dangerous?, illegal?, a placebo? Or perhaps as good as the site claims?

Cheers guys

P_Tucker

Yes, its absolutely as good as the site claims. Just like holographic wristbands.

DaveyL

I've read about this before - the guy behind it is called Andrew Whitehead.

He found that large doses of echinacea (I think ~8 g per day) lead to increases in epo levels.

Caveats: I seem to recall the research was funded by some supplement company. And I think even though they observed an increase in epo levels, it didn't correlate with an increase in VO2max (i.e. performance).

However I haven't looked into this for a while, so there may be more recent research that does show a benefit.

Personally I'd be keeping my money in my pocket.

ADIHEAD

Sure, cheers guys. Don't know much about supplements beyond the usual SIS, High 5 etc but my training buddy has dropped £85 or so on it! He must have been searching for something dodgy by typing EPO into Google and I suppose this site has been built to capitalise on people who do just that

P_Tucker

Send him to the butchers and get him to ask for a leg of mince. Trust me, it'll be funny.

jonmack

Have you told him to train more?

ADIHEAD

jonmack wrote:

Have you told him to train more?

Think you've just nailed it right there He's the guy who doesn't show up when the weather's bad, and the guy who always tries to manipulate the training routes to miss out all the steep climbs :roll:

Weston Super Mare hey? Not far from me, expect I've passed you on my travels as we get over that way sometimes. Do you venture out to Cheddar/Burrington much?

SteveR_100Milers

P_Tucker wrote:

Send him to the butchers and get him to ask for a leg of mince. Trust me, it'll be funny.

and a long stand whilst he is at it...

dulldave

Oh dear, what a loser.

jonmack

ADIHEAD wrote:

jonmack wrote:

Have you told him to train more?

Think you've just nailed it right there He's the guy who doesn't show up when the weather's bad, and the guy who always tries to manipulate the training routes to miss out all the steep climbs :roll:

Weston Super Mare hey? Not far from me, expect I've passed you on my travels as we get over that way sometimes. Do you venture out to Cheddar/Burrington much?

From my ends my standard summer ride is from weston down the a370 to brockley combe, up that, down the a38 to burrington, up there, down the gorge, back down the a38 to the a370 roundabout, then home! Gonna try it the other way when the weather picks up a bit here.

Drop me a PM some time if you fancy going for a ride on the mendips, i'd definitely be up for it.

Alex_Simmons/RST

ADIHEAD wrote:

Riding buddy of mine as just ordered some of this http://www.epoboost.com/?gclid=CPWp6srx ... 4QodQxz2Zg

He's generally the gullible type so I'm a bit concerned. Does anyone know anything about this particular product? Is it dangerous?, illegal?, a placebo? Or perhaps as good as the site claims?

Cheers guys

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... ifications

InPursuit

He could try a daily 500cc dose of beetroot juice - the high nitrate content is supposed to reduce oxygen cost and therefore improve endurance so while it doesn't work like EPO it gets similar results. I tried it and it didn't taste bad but Mrs wasn't happy with the mess.

http://recomp.com/blogma/2010/11/dietar ... d-walking/

Pokerface

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

ADIHEAD wrote:

Riding buddy of mine as just ordered some of this http://www.epoboost.com/?gclid=CPWp6srx ... 4QodQxz2Zg

He's generally the gullible type so I'm a bit concerned. Does anyone know anything about this particular product? Is it dangerous?, illegal?, a placebo? Or perhaps as good as the site claims?

Cheers guys

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... ifications

A teammate of mine used a Bicarbonate protocol to reduce the effects of lactic acid (or reduce the build up) for track racing. But it's a giant pain to do it.

wheeler585

Sounds like the kinda bloke, if given the chance would take illegal drugs if given! Just train hard and propley FFS!!!!!!

Pokerface

wheeler585 wrote:

Sounds like the kinda bloke, if given the chance would take illegal drugs if given! Just train hard and propley FFS!!!!!!

Part of training 'hard and propley [sic]' is taking the right supplements to aid performance and recovery. The more you train, the more help you can use to maximize performance.

I doubt you will find any elite cyclists that don't take something. And I'm not talking illegal stuff. Can be as simple as a recovery drink and as complex as a daily vitamen regimine.

wheeler585

Cmon pokerface, i mean i take recovery drinks and have taken l glutamine, but the name of the product says it all EPO BOOSTER! He's looking to TRY and increase blood cells by the look of it, on the cheap ha! Or have i just got the wrong end of this??

Rodrego Hernandez

Haemacrit (sp) level can be raised either by way of altitude training or artificially with drugs such as EPO. Taking echinacea will give a small rise for a short period of time but the benefits aren't huge.

There is no way to legally raise the EPO level as EPO is a banned substance no matter what the level.

Pokerface

wheeler585 wrote:

Cmon pokerface, i mean i take recovery drinks and have taken l glutamine, but the name of the product says it all EPO BOOSTER! He's looking to TRY and increase blood cells by the look of it, on the cheap ha! Or have i just got the wrong end of this??

You are correct - but it's also semantics.

For instance (to simplify this a bit), clenbuterol is a banned substance - right? We all know now that it can be used to shed extra weight.

But if vitamen B was marketed under the name "Fat Burner", would we then have a problem with it? (Or whatever legal, over the counter vitamen happens to help metabolize fat, etc).

I don't think the guy is looking to 'cheat', otherwise he would be seeking out the real stuff. But if the product has ANY benefit at all, how is it different than the 'regular' supplements you and I take? Is it just the name that puts you off?



(And if I could legally and cheaply and easily increase red blood cells - I would)

dulldave

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Haemacrit (sp) level can be raised either by way of altitude training or artificially with drugs such as EPO. Taking echinacea will give a small rise for a short period of time but the benefits aren't huge.

There is no way to legally raise the EPO level as EPO is a banned substance no matter what the level.

Sorry, I may have this totally wrong but isn't EPO naturally occurring in the body? I thought injecting r-EPO is what is banned at any level.

Theoretically, couldn't you promote your body's ability to create EPO naturally and wouldn't a blood transfusion also be another option for raising haematocrit that you haven't mentioned?

wheeler585

Yeah the name puts me off like, i would never really trawl through websites trying to find something that is going to give me the edge on race day. Supplements like l glutamine and recovery drinks are different as your wanting something to aid muscle repair, and stop you feeling like crap, i do anyway! A supplement like EPO booster, is pointing towards giving you that something extra on race day, like its going to make you super human or somehting ha.

Supose what im trying to say is that, isnt it better to train that bit harder and dig that bit deeper. Instead of knocking back shoddy pills called EPO booster ha

amaferanga

DaveyL wrote:

I've read about this before - the guy behind it is called Andrew Whitehead.

Seems strange that the guy behind the product is called Andrew Whitehead and the guy posting about it is ADIHEAD....

Gypsum_Fantastic

P_Tucker wrote:

Yes, its absolutely as good as the site claims. Just like holographic wristbands.

Psssst wanna buy some magic beans?

singlespeedexplosif

EPO BOOSTER! He's looking to TRY and increase blood cells by the look of it, on the cheap ha! Or have i just got the wrong end of this??

not really on the cheap, is it? Riding more would be doing it on the cheap.
He's spending money on something. Bit like buying High 5 rather than making your own concoction with fruit juice and salt

InPursuit

Pokerface wrote:

A teammate of mine used a Bicarbonate protocol to reduce the effects of lactic acid (or reduce the build up) for track racing. But it's a giant pain to do it.

I am surprised you haven't tried Bicarbonate of soda as you do TT & TP, I have seen a scientific study that claimed a performance boost of 3% in Team Pursuit when taken 60 - 90 min before the race. Not sure why it was a pain for your friend to take it unless he was using IV which besides being stupid is against WADA rules or did you mean the stomach upset that seems to affect some?

Pokerface

InPursuit wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

A teammate of mine used a Bicarbonate protocol to reduce the effects of lactic acid (or reduce the build up) for track racing. But it's a giant pain to do it.

I am surprised you haven't tried Bicarbonate of soda as you do TT & TP, I have seen a scientific study that claimed a performance boost of 3% in Team Pursuit when taken 60 - 90 min before the race. Not sure why it was a pain for your friend to take it unless he was using IV which besides being stupid is against WADA rules or did you mean the stomach upset that seems to affect some?

Two different ways to do it. One is - like you say - a does right before the event. Problem is - if you don't get the dose just right - it can cause stomach upset - and worse - the runs. Not pleasant in the middle of competition.

The other way (which he was doing) is a loading protocol - where you take a certain amount every day leading up to competition. That's why it's a pain - having to take it every day (and possibly more than once a day).

Even though I was rooming with him at the time, I don't know specifically how much and how often he was doing it.

I may have a go at the single dose method myself and risk getting the sh!ts. A 3% gain would equate to around 7 seconds in the pursuit - and could mean the difference between gold and nothing!

wheeler585

EPO BOOSTER! He's looking to TRY and increase blood cells by the look of it, on the cheap ha! Or have i just got the wrong end of this??

not really on the cheap, is it? Riding more would be doing it on the cheap.
He's spending money on something. Bit like buying High 5 rather than making your own concoction with fruit juice and salt






A damn site cheaper than EPO i guess

CarbonCopy

Aranesp is another way of raising red blood cell production.I wouldn`t want to risk my health on playing with stuff like that.Nevermind taking out a mortgage to fund the habit.

singlespeedexplosif

A damn site cheaper than EPO i guess
true dat. Also, training is a damn sight cheaper than having your legs swapped for Cancellara's. Bloody cheapskates.

mclarent

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... ifications

Cheers for that Alex, interesting reading.

SteveR_100Milers

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

ADIHEAD wrote:

Riding buddy of mine as just ordered some of this http://www.epoboost.com/?gclid=CPWp6srx ... 4QodQxz2Zg

He's generally the gullible type so I'm a bit concerned. Does anyone know anything about this particular product? Is it dangerous?, illegal?, a placebo? Or perhaps as good as the site claims?

Cheers guys

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... ifications

I used to take CoQ10 because of the (then) prescription of statins (which inhibit the bodies own production of it). It made no difference over several months during a seasons racing, but as as soon as I stopped taking the statins my times dropped significantly, and immediately so could not be explained away by simply training effect.

On a different note, how much sodium bicarbonate would you take as an immediate race day dose? Presumbaly just dissolved in a drink?

Rodrego Hernandez

dulldave wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Haemacrit (sp) level can be raised either by way of altitude training or artificially with drugs such as EPO. Taking echinacea will give a small rise for a short period of time but the benefits aren't huge.

There is no way to legally raise the EPO level as EPO is a banned substance no matter what the level.

Sorry, I may have this totally wrong but isn't EPO naturally occurring in the body? I thought injecting r-EPO is what is banned at any level.

Theoretically, couldn't you promote your body's ability to create EPO naturally and wouldn't a blood transfusion also be another option for raising haematocrit that you haven't mentioned?

I thought that EPO was used to stimulate the bodys (kidneys) red blood cell production in patients that were dangerously anaemic, such as during cancer treatments. I don't think that it is naturally occurring in the body.

RBC count can be raised by altitude training / hypoxic tents / blood transfusions but it certainly can't be raised by training hard.

If this supplement did work, it would be banned as it would fall under the cover all clause in the WADA code that bans methods rather than specific drugs.

Clenbutorol is banned due to it being some kind of steroid rather than its fat burning uses. I use to be given OTC in spain as an asthma drug which is it's legitimate use.