Low cadence/high resistance sessions
Comments
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P_Tucker wrote:SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:Hows that then? Why can't you have a 53 (or whatever) outer ring?
Well I thought the max size for a compact chainring was a 50T. I have never seen a bigger outer ring for a compact anyhow.
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b2s149p296
0.45 seconds googling pays off.
Fair enough, good to know. If you can find a Dura Ace compact that I can fit a Dura Ace 53T outer ring on, then I will be sorted
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SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:Hows that then? Why can't you have a 53 (or whatever) outer ring?
Well I thought the max size for a compact chainring was a 50T. I have never seen a bigger outer ring for a compact anyhow.
You can get a 53 but then there's too big a gap between the two for the front mech to cope. Plus the spread of gears is too wide to find a comfortable one in the intermediate sections.
I used a 52-37 last year. Worked fairly well for me although I span out in the 52-11 a couple of times.0 -
That'll be about right.
I was over 50mph on one section and high 40s on another...0 -
Chiggy wrote:
Very close, might have been a gear or two lower whilst changing up to the 53/11, but certainly spun out in the 53/11 and freewheeled. That would have been on the tri bars as well :twisted:0 -
NapoleonD wrote:SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:Hows that then? Why can't you have a 53 (or whatever) outer ring?
Well I thought the max size for a compact chainring was a 50T. I have never seen a bigger outer ring for a compact anyhow.
You can get a 53 but then there's too big a gap between the two for the front mech to cope. Plus the spread of gears is too wide to find a comfortable one in the intermediate sections.
I used a 52-37 last year. Worked fairly well for me although I span out in the 52-11 a couple of times.
Furry muff.0 -
Boys, boys, boys - have you quite finished?! Perhaps what we should do is invite P_Tucker to come and ride the Beacon Little Mountain TT? Then he can use his compact on Stanford Bank and Ankerdine and if he can beat SBezza then we'll all buy him a piece of cake......... how's that for an offer?
Here you go, P_Tucker - one of the best time trials in the country. See you there, 24th April? A few of us will be there.
http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/open_races/lmtt/index.html
Ruth0 -
BeaconRuth wrote:Boys, boys, boys - have you quite finished?! Perhaps what we should do is invite P_Tucker to come and ride the Beacon Little Mountain TT? Then he can use his compact on Stanford Bank and Ankerdine and if he can beat SBezza then we'll all buy him a piece of cake......... how's that for an offer?
Here you go, P_Tucker - one of the best time trials in the country. See you there, 24th April? A few of us will be there.
http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/open_races/lmtt/index.html
Ruth
Sounds good, but I'll be racing in Ireland unfortunately. It will be raining.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:Sounds good, but I'll be racing in Ireland unfortunately. It will be raining. That's a shame............maybe another time. What are you riding in Ireland?
Ruth0 -
P_Tucker wrote:Pokerface wrote:Most hills are a grind for me. Even with a compact. :oops:
P_Tucker: here's a thought.... you ride your races YOUR way and everyone else can ride them THEIR way. They seem to know what works for them.
Clearly.
Friendly on 'ere, innit?
You did start it...
+1 for Ruth's invite.0 -
Pushing harder gears builds strength which lets you push harder gears. Cancellara didn't become TT world champ by spinning his way to victory.Specialized Langster
Specialized Enduro Expert
Specialized Rockhopper
This season I will be mainly riding a Specialized0 -
So many myths. So little time.0
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Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:So many myths. So little time.
Whats your coaching perspective on overgeared work? Good or useless?0 -
BeaconRuth wrote:P_Tucker wrote:Sounds good, but I'll be racing in Ireland unfortunately. It will be raining. That's a shame............maybe another time. What are you riding in Ireland?
Ruth
http://www.rasmumhan.com/0 -
I suspect some coaches prescribe them for no other reason than they always have, or perhaps on the false belief that there is some benefit above that from simply riding at the same level of effort (power) in a "normal" gear.Pokerface wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:So many myths. So little time.
Whats your coaching perspective on overgeared work? Good or useless?
"We do them because they work" is the common claim. No one denies that doing lots of hard efforts can have excellent training benefit. Except that they are assigning causation (it's due to the over gearing), when it's simply a correlation (just because it's over gear doesn't mean that's why they are of benefit, when Occam's razor tells us it's much more to do with the power level such efforts are ridden at, not the over gearing per se).
1. Principle of specificity.
If your goal event demands low cadence, high force work, then include some in your training. For the majority of riding (silly steep grades notwithstanding) this is unnecessary if a rider chooses gearing appropriate for their level of fitness. Many riders are over geared for their ability.
2. Power is what matters.
The reason such efforts may have a beneficial impact is because of the power they are ridden at, not because of the gear chosen. So providing #1 is covered, then there's no real reason to do them. Just pedal at the desired power (or climbing speed if going uphill) in a normal/self selected gear to elicit the desired adaptations in sustainable power.
3. Such efforts do nothing for strength*.
The forces, even going at 40-50rpm at quite high sustainable power outputs are way too low to induce changes in one's strength. They are way sub-maximal. Not that strength matters or is a limiter to endurance cycling performance anyway. I only point it out because it's a common misconception (about such efforts and about the role of strength in endurance cycling).
4. Myth that such efforts recruit different/more (Type II) muscle fibres.
If it were true that substantially more fast twitch fibre is recruited, then time to fatigue would occur far sooner than it does (since Type II fibres fatigue very quickly), yet such efforts are sustainable for just as long as pedaling at same power in a regular gear. Recruitment of muscle fibre type is far more related to power/effort level (or intended effort level) than cadence or force alone.
A coach who understand the above and sees no need for such pedaling in goal events but still prescribes them, is (IMO) simply using them as a ruse to make a rider ride at a higher power output for periods. Intelligent use of power meters bust these myths.
* A quick glance at a pedal force-pedal velocity chart from a power meter file for such efforts will quickly deal with the strength myth.0 -
So I was right then? Well butter my ar$e0
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chrisw12 wrote:
:?langster wrote:Pushing harder gears builds strength which lets you push harder gears. Cancellara didn't become TT world champ by spinning his way to victory.
Um, yes he did...over 100 rpm average iirc, not that that means anything at all, (just wanted to join in
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About 120 rpm, when I was matching his cadence on my turbo, and he doesn't appear to slow down even near the finish.0 -
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Pokerface wrote:
And why would you assume that the OP required low cadence work based on what he posted?0 -
P_Tucker wrote:Pokerface wrote:
And why would you assume that the OP required low cadence work based on what he posted?
I'm talking specifically about NapD and Bezza's training for a mountain TT - which CLEARLY has sections of low cadence in it!
It's interesting though - that we have different perspectives from different coaches in this thread - both for and against overgeared work. I suppose you can go either way depending on which school of thought you choose to believe?0 -
Pokerface wrote:It's interesting though - that we have different perspectives from different coaches in this thread - both for and against overgeared work. I suppose you can go either way depending on which school of thought you choose to believe?
Not really - it either works or it doesn't. Believing something doesn't make it true.
As for whether it actually works, my limited understanding of the research done on it suggests that it does not. If anyone has any links to research that contends otherwise, I'd be interested to read it.0 -
There's a fair bit of research on specificity of training. I think. I just made that up but there probably is isn't there?
Can I post a funny graph from a book or something too? Heh heh.
We'll see if it works by how much (if at all) I've improved in the TT. My aim is to win the most improved rider prize, SBezza's is the overall (he was a close 2nd this year)0 -
NapoleonD wrote:There's a fair bit of research on specificity of training. I think. I just made that up but there probably is isn't there?
Can I post a funny graph from a book or something too? Heh heh.
We'll see if it works by how much (if at all) I've improved in the TT. My aim is to win the most improved rider prize, SBezza's is the overall (he was a close 2nd this year)
Sorry, to be clear I was talking about the idea of doing low cadence work to improve TT power at self-selected cadence.0
