Low cadence/high resistance sessions
birdy247
Posts: 454
I have a TT bike mounted on my turbo trainer. I havent got much experience with a TT bike, so am using the off season to try and adapt to it a bit.
I was doing a steady state 1 hour ride on my turbo last night, and included in a few 5 min high resistance/low cadence (around 70). I have read this is can be beneficial to getting muscles used to the demands of TT'ing.
When I got off, the turbo, my legs were pretty ruined. My HR was in the low zone 3 zone for most of the session. Today my legs feel very heavy.
My question is, is this kind of training worth anything. It seems like I will be tiring my legs (and thus increasing recovery time).
FYI I do find it harder to maintain the same sort of speed on my TT bike compared with my road bike whilst on the turbo.
I was doing a steady state 1 hour ride on my turbo last night, and included in a few 5 min high resistance/low cadence (around 70). I have read this is can be beneficial to getting muscles used to the demands of TT'ing.
When I got off, the turbo, my legs were pretty ruined. My HR was in the low zone 3 zone for most of the session. Today my legs feel very heavy.
My question is, is this kind of training worth anything. It seems like I will be tiring my legs (and thus increasing recovery time).
FYI I do find it harder to maintain the same sort of speed on my TT bike compared with my road bike whilst on the turbo.
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I guess it depends on whether you plan to test at 70rpm. Since your self-selected cadence is presumably higher than that, why would you practice at any other cadence?0
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P_Tucker wrote:I guess it depends on whether you plan to test at 70rpm. Since your self-selected cadence is presumably higher than that, why would you practice at any other cadence?
The theory would be that by choosing his preferred cadence he never produces much of an overload on the muscles - since they're still more than happy with the work they're doing when other factors (energy supply, oxygen supply, boredom, whatever) has stopped the workout. And if you don't produce an overload they won't improve becuase they're already well adapted to the work.
By doing specific work on producing an overload in the legs it may drive an improvement there that is not being driven by training at the preferred cadence.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
I know that my coach has me do undergeared and overgeared work (on turbo and road). Why? I can't say. :oops:
One theory is that it helps you adapt easier to changes in terrain on the road without having to change gear *as often*. I think it also helps you find your ideal cadence a little better (as you are subjected to both ends of the spectrum).
One thing I DO know - if you are doing these type of efforts - make sure to spin your legs out at a higher cadence before finishing your session. That *should* help get some of the lactic acid out of the legs - and won't ruin them as much. Will make your next training session easier and the legs feel 'lighter'.
Lastly - cadence on a TT bike vs road bike can easily be different especially if you don't ride your TT bike as much. The more you ride it and get comfortable on it, the easier it should become.0 -
Pokerface wrote:
One thing I DO know - if you are doing these type of efforts - make sure to spin your legs out at a higher cadence before finishing your session. That *should* help get some of the lactic acid out of the legs - and won't ruin them as much. Will make your next training session easier and the legs feel 'lighter'.
I usually do a good warm down, but I was in quite a rush so kept it very short Will make sure I spend at least 10 mins next time.0 -
My understanding in relation to doing it for climbing (I couldn't tell you about TT) is it causes your body to develop more slow twitch muscle fibres. These are required for maintaining endurance. Fast twitch is for sprintingTri Coaching
https://www.h3otriathlon.com0 -
jibberjim wrote:P_Tucker wrote:I guess it depends on whether you plan to test at 70rpm. Since your self-selected cadence is presumably higher than that, why would you practice at any other cadence?
The theory would be that by choosing his preferred cadence he never produces much of an overload on the muscles - since they're still more than happy with the work they're doing when other factors (energy supply, oxygen supply, boredom, whatever) has stopped the workout. And if you don't produce an overload they won't improve becuase they're already well adapted to the work.
By doing specific work on producing an overload in the legs it may drive an improvement there that is not being driven by training at the preferred cadence.
I guess the question is whether "whatever this workout is supposed to train" is a limiting factor in time trials. If not, there's no need to train it. Which is why my benchpress is rubbish.0 -
Chiggy wrote:P_Tucker wrote:I guess it depends on whether you plan to test at 70rpm. Since your self-selected cadence is presumably higher than that, why would you practice at any other cadence?
To climb hills. The ones with chevrons against them.
Yeah, I hear they're very common in the UK TTing scene.0 -
FWIW I tend to include intervals (5+ mins) of huge gear low RPM if only to break up a turbo session mentally, plus for me it emulates better the road, as I am sure that simply spinning away on a turbo and the track will leave me pretty useless on a rolling terrain. Then again, none of what I do is structured in anyway at the moment0
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I do these sessions, normally as a dedicated session. I find they help me develop power and strength.0
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I'm planning to do hour long sessions at a low'ish cadence next year to prepare for riding the Mortirolo. Not sure on the benefits for time trialling though.0
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P_Tucker wrote:Chiggy wrote:P_Tucker wrote:I guess it depends on whether you plan to test at 70rpm. Since your self-selected cadence is presumably higher than that, why would you practice at any other cadence?
To climb hills. The ones with chevrons against them.
Yeah, I hear they're very common in the UK TTing scene.
Yeah, I hear what you say.
The OP also mentions he has a road bike, so maybe he will fancy a Sportive next summer? Sportive organisers are famous for being cruel, sending the riders up the steepest hills in the district.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:SBezza wrote:I do these sessions, normally as a dedicated session. I find they help me develop power and strength.
Coggan rubbishes this idea in his book. Even If you went to 40 rpm, you'd still be nowhere near peak strength and thus no overload would be created,.
Well I do them at a power that I would do threshold work, and they hurt like hell after a few minutes when doing 60 rpm, yet I could do 20 mins at the same power at a higher cadence. They obviously do something different to a high cadence, what it is I am not sure.
Anyhow we are all different no doubt they work for some but others they might not do much at all.0 -
SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:SBezza wrote:I do these sessions, normally as a dedicated session. I find they help me develop power and strength.
Coggan rubbishes this idea in his book. Even If you went to 40 rpm, you'd still be nowhere near peak strength and thus no overload would be created,.
Well I do them at a power that I would do threshold work, and they hurt like hell after a few minutes when doing 60 rpm, yet I could do 20 mins at the same power at a higher cadence. They obviously do something different to a high cadence, what it is I am not sure.
Anyhow we are all different no doubt they work for some but others they might not do much at all.
If you want to believe something, you will.0 -
I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
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NapoleonD wrote:I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
Why don't you just change gear in your race?0 -
P_Tucker wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
Why don't you just change gear in your race?
Because at some point, even in the lowest gear, it's still going to be a grind. If the hill is big enough and/or you're heavy enough.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
Why don't you just change gear in your race?
Because a 25% climb in probably a 39/21 is going to be a grind unless you are very very powerful
I was down to 40 rpm last year.0 -
Wot they said.0
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Pokerface wrote:P_Tucker wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
Why don't you just change gear in your race?
Because at some point, even in the lowest gear, it's still going to be a grind. If the hill is big enough and/or you're heavy enough.
Its a (presumably short) 10% hill FFS - put a compact on and a 27 cassette if necessary.0 -
SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
Why don't you just change gear in your race?
Because a 25% climb in probably a 39/21 is going to be a grind unless you are very very powerful
I was down to 40 rpm last year.
Maybe, but there's no mention of a 25% hill in his race.0 -
There are two very steep climbs.
SBezza is referring to the race I'm referring to...0 -
Most hills are a grind for me. Even with a compact. :oops:
P_Tucker: here's a thought.... you ride your races YOUR way and everyone else can ride them THEIR way. They seem to know what works for them.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
Why don't you just change gear in your race?
Because a 25% climb in probably a 39/21 is going to be a grind unless you are very very powerful
I was down to 40 rpm last year.
Maybe, but there's no mention of a 25% hill in his race.
No there isn't, but you assumed it was just a piddly 10% climb. Not all TT's are down dual carriageways.
There is 2 very hard climbs in the TT NapD is targetting, one I was down to 55 rpm, and the other 40 rpm. Plus you don't want a compact on, otherwise you will lose out on other parts of the course.0 -
SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I've been doing them as the main event I'm targetting early next year is a hilly TT. I've been replicating a 10% incline on the turbo and doing them at a slow cadence. Basically replicating the situations I'll find on the hills!
You can't beat training that's tailored to your goal
Why don't you just change gear in your race?
Because a 25% climb in probably a 39/21 is going to be a grind unless you are very very powerful
I was down to 40 rpm last year.
Maybe, but there's no mention of a 25% hill in his race.
No there isn't, but you assumed it was just a piddly 10% climb. Not all TT's are down dual carriageways.
There is 2 very hard climbs in the TT NapD is targetting, one I was down to 55 rpm, and the other 40 rpm. Plus you don't want a compact on, otherwise you will lose out on other parts of the course.
Hows that then? Why can't you have a 53 (or whatever) outer ring?0 -
SBezza wrote:P_Tucker wrote:Hows that then? Why can't you have a 53 (or whatever) outer ring?
Well I thought the max size for a compact chainring was a 50T. I have never seen a bigger outer ring for a compact anyhow.
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b2s149p296
0.45 seconds googling pays off.0
