Why are there no black Pro cyclists?
A thread about Usain Bolt in cake stop got me thinking. . . why are there no (or very few) black cyclists in the pelaton?
Black sportsmen excel at nearly every other sport and in particular endurance sports so why not cycling?
What's the deal with that?
Black sportsmen excel at nearly every other sport and in particular endurance sports so why not cycling?
What's the deal with that?
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The same is broadly true of swimming, I've heard. There was a big debate about it a short while back - some of which seemed to indicate that it was cultural and pointing to the number of black kids in the US that drown IIRC.
Whether that has any relevance to the lack of black cyclists, I have no idea.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
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Some say that its mainly a social issue such as a possible poorer upbringing, so therefore it was easier to excel at football, athletics where the equipment costs are much lower and more opportunities. But this is really only part of the reason.
The main reason I would say is a physiological reason as black people tend to be more
muscular and therefore too heavy to really compete in the mountains. There are of course exceptions but the first reason usually cancels out this so therefore they don't pursue cycling as a sport.0 -
Same reason there aren't many pro ice hockey players. Or swimmers. Or ballet dancers.
However - some of the best track cyclists are black,0 -
sportvan wrote:Some say that its mainly a social issue such as a possible poorer upbringing, so therefore it was easier to excel at football, athletics where the equipment costs are much lower and more opportunities. But this is really only part of the reason.
The main reason I would say is a physiological reason as black people tend to be more
muscular and therefore too heavy to really compete in the mountains. There are of course exceptions but the first reason usually cancels out this so therefore they don't pursue cycling as a sport.
After reading a few things I've noticed a few references to physical differences that might put people of African descent at a disadvantage. What a load of utter bolox! Black people excel at all kinds of different sports that require all kinds of physical attributes.
I read another article
http://vannevar.blogspot.com/2009/07/ma ... acism.html
that suggests that the Peloton is racist. Not sure I believe this one either, it's 2010, but maybe that's me being naive.0 -
That's Yohann Gene, from the West Indies. I think he finished the Vuelta in September.
There are several riders in French and Italian teams of North African origins, think Blel Kadri or Rafaa Chtioui. Plus Cervélo signed Eritrean rider Dan Teklayhaimanot and he would have been in the pro ranks were it not for the team's demise. He even made Cycle Sport magazine recently:
Oh and Pokerface, probably the best male ballet dancer in the world is Cuban Carlos Acosta
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Why are there no Arapho cyclists, or Eskimo?
Is it cos they move their bodies, to and fro?0 -
sportvan wrote:Some say that its mainly a social issue such as a possible poorer upbringing, so therefore it was easier to excel at football, athletics where the equipment costs are much lower and more opportunities. But this is really only part of the reason.
The main reason I would say is a physiological reason as black people tend to be more
muscular and therefore too heavy to really compete in the mountains. There are of course exceptions but the first reason usually cancels out this so therefore they don't pursue cycling as a sport.
Sport on mate. It's why there are no good black distance runners too, they're all too muscular. Those huge great Kenyans and Ethopians eh.0 -
Why are there no good Austrian surfers?
Why are there no good Somali downhill skiiers?
Why are there no good Australian cricketeers
Why are there no good Moroccan biathletes?0 -
True, ethnicity is a complicated thing. Still, a lot of Cubans are descended from slaves "imported" from Africa. I was just trying to point out that there are indeed black pro cyclists and even ballet dancers. There are others, for example one of the Cofidis riders finished the Tour and he was "black".Pokerface wrote:Cuban's aren't black. They're Cuban.
In many ways does it matter? Who cares about the skin tone of a rider? The sport is open to all, it's not like people in cycling discriminate.0 -
Kléber wrote:
True, ethnicity is a complicated thing. Still, a lot of Cubans are descended from slaves "imported" from Africa. I was just trying to point out that there are indeed black pro cyclists and even ballet dancers. There are others, for example one of the Cofidis riders finished the Tour and he was "black".Pokerface wrote:Cuban's aren't black. They're Cuban.
In many ways does it matter? Who cares about the skin tone of a rider? The sport is open to all, it's not like people in cycling discriminate.
I hear ya (and I wasn't the one who said there were 'none').
But it does warrant thinking about why black athletes dominate so many sports and yet are barely seen in others. It certainly can't be all down to socio-economics0 -
Rahsaan Bahati
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahsaan_Bahati0 -
Also go back to early Tour de France photos and see if you ever see blacks in the photos, I happen to think you do.
Kind of cool that right now, shallow drop handlebars are a bit "in" with bikes, Soma manufactures some "Major Taylor" handlebars that are actually modeled from some quite a bit after his hayday. The web page said these are modeled after some 1930s handlebars.
http://www.somafab.com/barmajort.html <--- these are kind of cool, printed in big black letters on the handlebar top is in fact, "Major Taylor", I saw a pair personally.
As to PokerFace's assertion that there are not many black ice hockey players, in this instance and maybe this is part to do with cycling too, there probably are not as many blacks in the location where the sport is popular, with ice hockey meaning Canada but with that said, there are a good number of black players in the NHL and have been for a number of years now, decades I'd say.
I've kept up with pro hockey more in the past, so a # of names escape me now,
Dustin Byfuglien of Minnesota helped immeasurably the Chicago Blackhawks win the Stanley Cup last year. He is kind of an enforcer/goon, don't know which but the kind that would get in fights But I know he helped score for the Blackhawks too to win their first Stanley Cup since the 1960s. His contract was not renewed, probably wanting more money and now he plays for one of the Flordia teams.
http://www.nhlsnipers.com/wp-content/up ... 1556_2.jpg Here is a good picture of him in action. I noted all the hockey photos I am getting are real big so rather than post it here, just go to the image. Also, the Montreal Canadiens, one of the most fabled teams of all ice hockey had a black player on their squad last year who was helpful in their playoff run. Byfuglien is American by the way.
Did RichN95 mention Eritrea again?? Cycling is big there and here, I dig out the same old info, the Italians colonialised Eritrea back in the '30s or maybe before and Eritrea gets their cycling heritage from that.
I remember I read in Velo News or somewhere that at the Tour of Eritrea, some Babboons came out and threw rocks at the riders, no kidding.
http://www.wdbna.com/2010/10/cycling-er ... ite-sport/0 -
Black sportsmen excel at nearly every other sport and in particular endurance sports so why not cycling?
Because in Kenya and Ethiopia the children run to school. If they cycled to school it would be very different I suspect.0 -
It's cultural - both within cycling and in the cultures of those with african decent.
Anyone saying it's genetic or anything like that is talking rubbish - professional cyclists are by their very nature, unusual freaks - there's no reason why that freakishness should be exclusive to people of one particular race.0 -
ShinyHelmut wrote:Black sportsmen excel at nearly every other sport and in particular endurance sports so why not cycling?
Because in Kenya and Ethiopia the children run to school. If they cycled to school it would be very different I suspect.
It's also because of altitude. They do so much running (including training) at altitude, so when they compete closer to sea level it's easier for them.
I also heard Steve Cram (I think) say that peeps from that area of E Africa have larger chest cavities and therefore lungs, which again is an advantage.0 -
Because in Kenya and Ethiopia the children run to school. If they cycled to school it would be very different I suspect.
And for thousands of years in that, whatever they call that Valley.0 -
cajun_cyclist wrote:Because in Kenya and Ethiopia the children run to school. If they cycled to school it would be very different I suspect.
And for thousands of years in that, whatever they call that Valley.
The Great Rift Valley, home to the Kalenjin tribe, from which almost all of the Kenya runners come.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Alot to do with muscle fibres i believe. White folks have slower twich fibres and African decendants are more inclined to have fast twich fibres. Slowe fibres for endurance faster twich fibres for speed 95% of all sprinter to run 100m in under 10sec's can all have thier DNA traced back to several tribes in west africa .0
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blackrockracer wrote:Alot to do with muscle fibres i believe. White folks have slower twich fibres and African decendants are more inclined to have fast twich fibres. Slowe fibres for endurance faster twich fibres for speed 95% of all sprinter to run 100m in under 10sec's can all have thier DNA traced back to several tribes in west africa .
Thus the domination of the Ethiopians in middle-distance (aerobic = slow twitch Type 1 fibres!!)
Bollox! More "race-logic"! The same kind of claptrap that is used to "explain" why blacks don't swim - supposedly people of African decent have heavier calf muscles and are therefore not suited to swimming. The same "race-logic" is used by some to explain why blacks are so good at sprinting - running away from lions, slavery etc.!
Ever wondered if there is something in the genetic make-up of Scandinavians that makes them so good at cross-country skiing? Perhaps their pale skin reflects the sun better so they are more suited to the Arctic?
Have a read of Sport In Society: Issues And Controversies by Jay Coakley for a little further information on this line of thought.0 -
Personaly i think it can only be cultural reason or a raceist reason why there are no/very few Black pro riders.
Nothing to do with physique.!0 -
Chrissz wrote:blackrockracer wrote:Alot to do with muscle fibres i believe. White folks have slower twich fibres and African decendants are more inclined to have fast twich fibres. Slowe fibres for endurance faster twich fibres for speed 95% of all sprinter to run 100m in under 10sec's can all have thier DNA traced back to several tribes in west africa .
Thus the domination of the Ethiopians in middle-distance (aerobic = slow twitch Type 1 fibres!!)
Bollox! More "race-logic"! The same kind of claptrap that is used to "explain" why blacks don't swim - supposedly people of African decent have heavier calf muscles and are therefore not suited to swimming. The same "race-logic" is used by some to explain why blacks are so good at sprinting - running away from lions, slavery etc.!
Ever wondered if there is something in the genetic make-up of Scandinavians that makes them so good at cross-country skiing? Perhaps their pale skin reflects the sun better so they are more suited to the Arctic?
Have a read of Sport In Society: Issues And Controversies by Jay Coakley for a little further information on this line of thought.
i am pretty sure black people of certain origins do have more fast twitch muscle fibres. There is alot more sprinters and b ball players who are black than white, and much more cyclist, motorbike riders and racing car driver who are white that black, it probably has most to do with following on from what your family does and also to a certain extent a white person may be intimidated turning up to something where everyone else is black and visa versa, it shouldn't make a difference but i bet it does in some cases0 -
Wasn't there are BBC programming a few years ago with Colin Jackson looking at whether black people had more fast twitch muscle fibres? I remember the conclusion was that there was NO GENETIC link. The reason for countries like Jamaica producing high quality sprinters was purely cultural - sprinting is simply their national past-time.0
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I've heard it claimed, eminently plausibly given that Africa is the birthplace of humanity and that other "races" are fairly recently migrated (evolution not stopping in Africa meanwhile), that there is more genetic diversity within the indigenous African population than in the rest of the world put together.
Of course, most Africans aren't likely to have access to a bike, let alone training facilities.
Meanwhile, in most countries with plenty of bikes and training possibilities cycling is still a minority sport, so even if those countries have sizeable black populations they're likely to be drawn toward basketball, football, American football, baseball, athletics etc. That's without even considering race/class issues within those countries (we've seen black tennis players that dominate the sport, but in actual numbers who other than the Williams sisters, Yannick Noah and Arthur Ashe could you name?).
Might also be worth noting that the majority of "black" athletes in the Western World will have a considerable portion of "white" genes in their makeup.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:I've heard it claimed, eminently plausibly given that Africa is the birthplace of humanity and that other "races" are fairly recently migrated (evolution not stopping in Africa meanwhile), that there is more genetic diversity within the indigenous African population than in the rest of the world put together.
Massive bullsh1t.
Whoever is claiming that is from the 1900s,and think pears' 'white man burden's' soap advert is the best thing ever.
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It is absolutely 100% cultural. Both within cycling (which I think is often under-estimated. It's probably very structural), and the culture of those with African decent.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:I've heard it claimed, eminently plausibly given that Africa is the birthplace of humanity and that other "races" are fairly recently migrated (evolution not stopping in Africa meanwhile), that there is more genetic diversity within the indigenous African population than in the rest of the world put together.
Massive bullsh1t.
Wrong: http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/2009/04/massive_study_of_african_genet.php
Where are the east african sprinters, or, even more revealingly, international-level football players (yes, they do play football in east africa)? No such thing.
Where are the decent west african long- or middle-distance runners? Bump the distance to 800 m and they pretty much disappear.
When people talk about 'black athletes', they are, with the exception of long-distance running, almost always referring to people of west african descent, though they might not realize it.
What the likes of Rick Chasey fear of course is that once we recognize differences in atheletic ability between different groups, what's next? IQ?0
