Turbo Session v Road miles

Chiggy

Oh, and another trick for turbo riding.

Set up the turbo in the garden so the house does not get wet with your sweat. Wear all your cold weather kit ( cus there's a slightly greater leg pulling demand in training longs ). Get a big pedestal fan and position it so it blasts air at you.

Don't wear your cold weather kit if you REALLY want to lose some fat.

Throw some slices of bread on the lawn and watch the birdies feeding.

flanners1

Maybe an even better workout with my rollers with resistance then?

I can certainly feel the difference after rollers and then riding on the road again. I always say during the Winter I should use the rollers for at least one session a week when the weather warms up, but needless to say I don't stick to it.

I don't suffer from boredom on the rollers as 'Sufferfest' takes care of just staying alive, upright and breathing. Have downloaded The Hunted this week, have to say it is the hardest edition so far IMO with 20m hill climb, TT, breaks, intervals...... :shock: However as with turbo's, rollers or spin classes it is all relative.

KnightOfTheLongTights

have been popping into some local spin classes recently and whilst there's a bit of that nobbing around with press ups on the bars etc - it's been a good workout.

A double session would be particularly effective I suspect. Couple of those a week will be great for keeping aerobic fitness levels over the winter - although they do say lay down your base over the winter with long rides.

Just got to get that long ride in at the weekend.

Chiggy

Yes, it is all relative.

My gym bike session is at an intensity above the Maximum speed requirement for Audax ( 200 Watts, usually 225 Watts ), for 1/4 of the duration of a 100 km Audax.

As a consequence, a 100 km Audax DIY can be whizzed off before Sunday lunch.

All the high tech gadgetry wasn't around when I rode the track. My coach had a stopwatch and counted laps.

amaferanga

Buckled_Rims wrote:

But another thing about turbos is that you can finesse your pedaling style a bit better...and boy you sweat off the pounds.

Not if your turbo is in a garage and/or you have a decent fan.

I've been riding my turbo in the garage and have needed overshoes on for the past week....

Chiggy

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

have been popping into some local spin classes recently and whilst there's a bit of that nobbing around with press ups on the bars etc - it's been a good workout.

A double session would be particularly effective I suspect. Couple of those a week will be great for keeping aerobic fitness levels over the winter - although they do say lay down your base over the winter with long rides.

Just got to get that long ride in at the weekend.

All that knobbing around on the wall bars is probably the important calf stretches.

Going out on a long ride in the cold at a speed which will get you through the ride without fatigue and/or failure will not stimulate growth.
Stay in the gym and over-exert / progress with higher intensity sessions where you know its a short walk to the sauna.

Pokerface

A few things...

A turbo session is 'worth twice as much as a road session' only in terms of the physical stimulation and training benefit. But in terms of calories spent - it won't be worth as much.

You'll still burn more calories in a 3 hour road session (even soft pedaling) than you will in a hard turbo session. It;s just that you'll get more out of the turbo session in real world training benefit.

"Sweating off the pounds" won't help - you are just dehydrating yourself. Turbo sessions usually feel harder than a road ride because you don't notice the sweat as much on the road.

Even with a cold room and good fan - you really notice how much you are sweating. Make sure to rehydrate properly! (I know - I got bad dehydration from overuse of the turbo and nearly ended up in hospital!)

IMO - a good mix of road and turbo sessions will improve your riding more than using one or the other exclusively.

Chiggy

To expand on Pokerface's post, for every 1 cc of sweat expelled, you have worked off 4 kCals.
The work is transfered from the chemical energy in the glycogen / glucose to moving air with a fan or moving one magnet against another or stirring up some viscous fluid.

The other bi-product of the work is CO2.

When you replace the lost water with water, which contains zero kCals, you know you have lost Carbohydrate mass from your body.

Now the trick is to only replace the necessary proportion of CHO to lose some of the mass permanently.

As a BTW, 'tractive' energy only accounts for about half to a third of the total kCals expended on a road ride. The rest goes out by way of your body's attempts to maintain 33 C neutral skin temperature.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Chiggy wrote:

All that knobbing around on the wall bars is probably the important calf stretches.

Going out on a long ride in the cold at a speed which will get you through the ride without fatigue and/or failure will not stimulate growth.
Stay in the gym and over-exert / progress with higher intensity sessions where you know its a short walk to the sauna.

no it's on the handlebars during the class

it's like a concession to having some upper-body workout to give spin classes a wider appeal probably

when actually all it achieves is watering down the spinning

as for the rest of the post - I like that sentiment!

etapechamp

pie n chips please and a diet cola

KnightOfTheLongTights

on the subject of saunas ... I do like them, especially broken up with a couple ice-cold showers

but if conventional wisdom is to be believed, you should be cooling down the muscles after prolonged exertion - not warming them up? So are they bad for recovery?

itboffin

MrBibble wrote:

Or gaining muscle!

+1

I'm going with that answer :oops:

It's cold out so I stay in a er eat and drink :?

itboffin

Had a quick go tonight, 5 min warm up then 5 min reps hurt to the point of failure long before the same distance and time with 10 min reps.

Lion-O

the turbo is awesome for threshold etc training as you can sit at the right pace and the wind/hills etc are not there so there is no easy periods. Just be careful using it though as its easy to burn out on the turbo but THEY are not a substitute for endurance rides! as someone said earlier first rule of training is to know what you want to get out of the end of the seeion if you dont know why your doining it you wont do it properly.

itboffin

64 road miles yesterday and I most definitely noticed an improvement in my pedal technique, I also came very close to setting a PB on my usual commuting route.

More turbo work I think.

P_Tucker

x hours at y intensity on the road = x hours at y intensity on the turbo. The end.

Chiggy

P_Tucker wrote:

x hours at y intensity on the road = x hours at y intensity on the turbo. The end.

The ergometer ( Turbo trainer ) is a 'lab environment' where a session can be repeated within the compound tolerances of the equipment.
For testing and controlled isolation training.

The road is an 'open environment' where conditions can never be repeated due to their ever changing chaotic nature.
For events where the individual racers compete agianst each other on the same road at the same time within metres distance from each other.

P_Tucker

Chiggy wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

x hours at y intensity on the road = x hours at y intensity on the turbo. The end.

The ergometer ( Turbo trainer ) is a 'lab environment' where a session can be repeated within the compound tolerances of the equipment.
For testing and controlled isolation training.

The road is an 'open environment' where conditions can never be repeated due to their ever changing chaotic nature.
For events where the individual racers compete agianst each other on the same road at the same time within metres distance from each other.

You what?

Lion-O

tucker.

er wind resistance, hills? down hill? cross wind? tail wind?

y + x +=etc it does not equate equally! ergo you are wrong! totally wrong! knob head!

P_Tucker

Lion-O wrote:

tucker.

er wind resistance, hills? down hill? cross wind? tail wind?

y + x +=etc it does not equate equally! ergo you are wrong! totally wrong! knob head!

Does not equate equally? Brilliant.

Intensity would obviously be measured by a method that takes into account all these things e.g. normalized power. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Lucky Douglas

P_Tucker wrote:

Chiggy wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

x hours at y intensity on the road = x hours at y intensity on the turbo. The end.

The ergometer ( Turbo trainer ) is a 'lab environment' where a session can be repeated within the compound tolerances of the equipment.
For testing and controlled isolation training.

The road is an 'open environment' where conditions can never be repeated due to their ever changing chaotic nature.
For events where the individual racers compete agianst each other on the same road at the same time within metres distance from each other.

You what?

You can control the 'intensity' variable more effectively on the turbo.

P_Tucker

Lucky Douglas wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Chiggy wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

x hours at y intensity on the road = x hours at y intensity on the turbo. The end.

The ergometer ( Turbo trainer ) is a 'lab environment' where a session can be repeated within the compound tolerances of the equipment.
For testing and controlled isolation training.

The road is an 'open environment' where conditions can never be repeated due to their ever changing chaotic nature.
For events where the individual racers compete agianst each other on the same road at the same time within metres distance from each other.

You what?

You can control the 'intensity' variable more effectively on the turbo.

Indeed, but if you managed to get exactly the same intensity on the turbo, then it would be exactly the same as a road workout. The whole "1 hour on the turbo = 90 mins on the road" is utter bolleaux - if you do exactly the same workout, it has exactly the same effect on your body.

If you choose to train harder on the turbo to get it over and done with, then thats obv completely different. A powermeter is what you really need to compare, else you're just guessing.

Worth noting that this is in the "beginners" forum - if it was in the "mega advanced super training section" I'd assume that my answer was taken as read and pitch my response differently.

Garz

The turbo just adds another string to the training bow. I use it primarily for bad weather or times when work or other commitments allow a quick 50 min blast.

Nothing beets getting out on the road and riding for real. I do agree though arguments for technical intricacies are more suited out of the "beginner" forum. :roll:

Chiggy

Lucky Douglas wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Chiggy wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

x hours at y intensity on the road = x hours at y intensity on the turbo. The end.

The ergometer ( Turbo trainer ) is a 'lab environment' where a session can be repeated within the compound tolerances of the equipment.
For testing and controlled isolation training.

The road is an 'open environment' where conditions can never be repeated due to their ever changing chaotic nature.
For events where the individual racers compete agianst each other on the same road at the same time within metres distance from each other.

You what?

You can control the 'intensity' variable more effectively on the turbo.

You can control the weather inside your spare bedroom...

Chiggy

The ONLY way you can observe and record "Intensity" of human activity is to firstly measure the O2 and CO2 content of the ambient air, and secondly, measure the O2 and CO2 content of the poor chap's exhaled breath.

Try doing that on a road ride without a truck full of gas analysers..

Lucky Douglas

dup posting

Lucky Douglas

Chiggy wrote:

Lucky Douglas wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Chiggy wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

x hours at y intensity on the road = x hours at y intensity on the turbo. The end.

The ergometer ( Turbo trainer ) is a 'lab environment' where a session can be repeated within the compound tolerances of the equipment.
For testing and controlled isolation training.

The road is an 'open environment' where conditions can never be repeated due to their ever changing chaotic nature.
For events where the individual racers compete agianst each other on the same road at the same time within metres distance from each other.

You what?

You can control the 'intensity' variable more effectively on the turbo.

You can control the weather inside your spare bedroom...

Also easier to watch a DVD while you're riding!

meanredspider

Chiggy wrote:

for every 1 cc of sweat expelled, you have worked off 4 kCals..

I'm interested to understand the basis of this. It's the first time I've heard sweat and calories linked.

FWIW, one of the big missing elements of any "fixed" bike riding is the lack of core workout (as it is with gym treadmills). Outside you're constantly adjusting. I've been amazed by the upper body development I've got from the 2500 commuting miles I've done in the Highlands. The rate of calorie burn is pretty important too to your physiology. I'm not saying one is better than the other, they're just different.

P_Tucker

Chiggy wrote:

The ONLY way you can observe and record "Intensity" of human activity is to firstly measure the O2 and CO2 content of the ambient air, and secondly, measure the O2 and CO2 content of the poor chap's exhaled breath.

Try doing that on a road ride without a truck full of gas analysers..

So what's a powermeter then?

Chiggy

P_Tucker wrote:

Chiggy wrote:

The ONLY way you can observe and record "Intensity" of human activity is to firstly measure the O2 and CO2 content of the ambient air, and secondly, measure the O2 and CO2 content of the poor chap's exhaled breath.

Try doing that on a road ride without a truck full of gas analysers..

So what's a powermeter then?

A powermeter is a dynamometer. It measures the power generated by the engine either at the crank, at the hub or at the roller.
In an engine test cell, the dynamometer is measuring the power generated by the engine. The engine will NEVER get to its full potential if you continuously swill freezing cold water through the cylinder head and not allow it to warm up to normal operating temperature.

On a Turbo trainer or ergometer, the rider will NEVER get to his/her full potential if he/she has freezing cold air blasing on his/her legs and ribcage throughout the test.

On an indoor Turbo, the room's ambient air and therefore the rider's skin temperature can be controlled to be the same at every test. On the road, it can't.

The purpose of a turbo trainer is to quantify any improvement in performance. This is done realistically with two O2 and CO2 analysers. These directly measure the rider's VO2 uptake and operates by the 'Carbon balance' theory of combustion efficiency.
If the cyclist uses the same equipment with every test, the turbo's powercurve is known, and the bike remains close to constant, AND SO DO THE ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS, so a faster speed with less VO2 indicates a more efficient engine. A powermeter merely confirms the fact.

In an engine test cell, intake air, exhaust gas AND fuel flow are measured as well as power output. On a cyclist on a turbo, it is difficult to measure fuel flow, so O2 and CO2 are used to calculate fuel usage for the power output.

Without knowing the balance of CO2 and O2, the research engineer can but guess the intensity of the rider's session.

Does that explain it better?