Gym work to increase speed ...?

AidanR

Plus only ever training on the bike is a wonderful way to lower your bone density. And no, that's not an advantage on the hills

DaveyL

Out of curiosity - does cycling lower your bone density compared to doing no exercise at all?

amaferanga

I think you'd have to be completely sedentary apart from cycling to have issues with bone density. I don't believe that cycling lowers bone density.

Pokerface

AidanR wrote:

There's a difference between big legs and strong legs. .

Indeed - but I think the point is that you will get 'strong' legs by riding your bike - and not by lifting weights in the gym. Plus you get added benefits when you spend your training time riding.

(I still do gym work myself - for various reasons).

jp1985

Here's an interesting article on the relationship between strength and endurance. Its written by a very well respected Sports Scientist who has worked with USA Cycling in the past.

The Intro and Part 2 are worth reading

http://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=213:strength-maximumstrength&catid=68:strength-generalarticles&Itemid=129

However, while im an advocate of resistance training i wouldn't do it at the expense of riding your bike until your completing relatively high volumes of training (8 - 10 hours plus per week). As you said your just starting out riding. Just riding your bike for now will cause you to improve, but if your adding it to your training as long as your able to recover between sessions it wont do any harm.

irezumi

Just to point out, I dont beleive adding weight in the form of muscle bulk is necessarily a good thing, completely dependent on the individual and their needs.

I merely think that for the OP with his time constraints and aversion to cycling at night (I dont do it either unless commuting/caught out) I think 2-3 gym sessions over winter would be beneficial to his cycling. Perhaps investing in a turbo trainer would be better but gym work is still a good substitute for us mortals.

Anonymous

Hmmm. I may be wrong but to improve my cycling I'm riding my bike.

I do a bit of core / upper body work too but that's due to work and general well being, not cycling...

Pokerface

Are there any studies anywhere that indicate that weights improve endurance cycling? I'm sure there are several that say they don't. Just wondering what scientific proof there is either way.

reacher

one of the biggest problems in sport is that the normal guys try to copy the training methods of the top class athletes ,
sure , look at the pics posted and then say but they dont have this or that physique , what you are forgetting is that the top guys in sport are useing chemicals as well as being able to do nothing but train ,
their is a world of differance betwen a guy on chemicals and a guy not on chemicals ,
and pushing 5 or 6 hours a day on training compared to the average guy ,

Pokerface

reacher wrote:

one of the biggest problems in sport is that the normal guys try to copy the training methods of the top class athletes ,
sure , look at the pics posted and then say but they dont have this or that physique , what you are forgetting is that the top guys in sport are useing chemicals as well as being able to do nothing but train ,
their is a world of differance betwen a guy on chemicals and a guy not on chemicals ,
and pushing 5 or 6 hours a day on training compared to the average guy ,

Wow - your ignorance is stunning.

reacher

Pokerface wrote:

reacher wrote:

one of the biggest problems in sport is that the normal guys try to copy the training methods of the top class athletes ,
sure , look at the pics posted and then say but they dont have this or that physique , what you are forgetting is that the top guys in sport are useing chemicals as well as being able to do nothing but train ,
their is a world of differance betwen a guy on chemicals and a guy not on chemicals ,
and pushing 5 or 6 hours a day on training compared to the average guy ,

Wow - your ignorance is stunning.

thats ok ,
ignorance about what ?
are you trying to say that the top sportsmen are not useing chemicals ?

Pokerface

"The top guys in sport are useing [sic] chemicals"

So all pro athletes are on drugs? :roll:


I have nothing but time to train, and do so for several hours a day. Even with chemicals I would never be able to reach the heights they do. nevertheless, the same training techniques they use are used by myself and most other coached amateurs.

The difference between them and me is not chemicals or training time. It is genetics. You can't turn a donkey into a race horse, no matter how many drugs you pump into him or how many hours a day you run him around the track.

Anonymous

Pokerface wrote:

You can't turn a donkey into a race horse, no matter how many drugs you pump into him or how many hours a day you run him around the track.

Damn.

DaveyL

I have to put my hand up and say I use "chemicals".

Carbohydrates, proteins, fats, that kind of thing. Also stuff like ascorbic acid, cholecalciferol, and others.

Loads of chemicals. I'm right smacked up, me.

DaveyL

reacher wrote:

one of the biggest problems in sport is that the normal guys try to copy the training methods of the top class athletes ,
sure , look at the pics posted and then say but they dont have this or that physique , what you are forgetting is that the top guys in sport are useing chemicals as well as being able to do nothing but train ,
their is a world of differance betwen a guy on chemicals and a guy not on chemicals ,
and pushing 5 or 6 hours a day on training compared to the average guy ,

Point 1. You said "if you have legs like chickens you will not be a good cyclists , pure and simple , everything stems from the power they put out , the same rule applys in all sports thats why so much gym work is done off season by athletes , the aerobic/endurance side is built on the bike for sure , but transporting oxegen to a pair of paper thin thighs will achieve nothing but the ability to turn pedals quickly for long distances on the flat spinning ,

to say that big leg muscles are not needed is ridiculous , when was the last time you saw a top male athlete with legs like a tart in any sport"

That has been demonstrated to be incorrect.

But now that you mention drugs, yes, a lot of cyclists take drugs (as do many other athletes). And what is by far the best way to enhance cycling performance? Oxygen vector drugs like r-epo, and blood transfusions etc. You increase the oxygen-carrying capability of the body, i.e. you improve your aerobic system. Dopers don't take drugs to make their thighs bigger. They take steroids and growth hormone, sure, but in small quantities, and solely to help them recover better from their training.

jp1985

Pokerface wrote:

Are there any studies anywhere that indicate that weights improve endurance cycling? I'm sure there are several that say they don't. Just wondering what scientific proof there is either way.

Paton and Hopkins et al 2005 (j strength cond res) - power in a 4km tt improved 8.4% in the resistance training group vs 0.3% in the control group - cycling economy was improved 3.20% vs 0.2% in control (p<0.05)

Sunde et al 2009 (j strength cond res) - time to exhaustion at max aerobic power improved by 17.2% in the resistance training group vs no change in control - cycling economy improved by 4.8% vs no change in the control group and work efficiency improved 4.7% verses 1.4% in the control (p < 0.05 group interaction)

Hickson et al 1988 ( j app physiol). 11% increase in short term power and 20% increase in time to exhaustion. However this study didn't have a control group (p<0.05)

Bishop et al 1999 (med sci sprt exerc) - power output in a 1 hour tt was improved 2.83% in the resistance training group vs 0.97% in the control group.

Bastiaans et al 2001 (int j sports physiol perf) - power in a 1 hr tt improved 10.75% in resistance training group vs 7.59% in the control group

The figures from the Bishop and Bastiaans studies I calculated myself so the level of significance is unavailable.

There is also a systematic review by Yamamoto et al 2010 (j strength cond res) looking at the effect of resistance training on cycling performance that contains some of the above studies ... Two of the 5 studies found no improvement in performance with CT (concurrent resistance + endurance training), but these studies added RT ( resistance training) on top of the athletes' existing ET ( endurance training). The 3 studies with improved cycling performance replaced a portion of the athletes' ET with RT, and 2 of the 3 studies included high-intensity explosive-type resistance exercises.

All of these studies used trained cyclists. if you want to look at running and cross country skiing you can find much more evidence for resistance training improving endurance performance (these sports are limited by similar physiological mechanisms as cycling so it would be logical to assume they are affected similarly by resistance training)

There are also a number of studies that show improvements in elements of physiology but not actual cycling performance and others that show no improvements in either.

Last point, resistance training does not necessarily mean heavy weight training

If anyone wants the full articles of any of the studies send me a pm.

NJK

jp1985 wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

Are there any studies anywhere that indicate that weights improve endurance cycling? I'm sure there are several that say they don't. Just wondering what scientific proof there is either way.

Paton and Hopkins et al 2005 (j strength cond res) - power in a 4km tt improved 8.4% in the resistance training group vs 0.3% in the control group - cycling economy was improved 3.20% vs 0.2% in control (p<0.05)

Sunde et al 2009 (j strength cond res) - time to exhaustion at max aerobic power improved by 17.2% in the resistance training group vs no change in control - cycling economy improved by 4.8% vs no change in the control group and work efficiency improved 4.7% verses 1.4% in the control (p < 0.05 group interaction)

Hickson et al 1988 ( j app physiol). 11% increase in short term power and 20% increase in time to exhaustion. However this study didn't have a control group (p<0.05)

Bishop et al 1999 (med sci sprt exerc) - power output in a 1 hour tt was improved 2.83% in the resistance training group vs 0.97% in the control group.

Bastiaans et al 2001 (int j sports physiol perf) - power in a 1 hr tt improved 10.75% in resistance training group vs 7.59% in the control group

The figures from the Bishop and Bastiaans studies I calculated myself so the level of significance is unavailable.

There is also a systematic review by Yamamoto et al 2010 (j strength cond res) looking at the effect of resistance training on cycling performance that contains some of the above studies ... Two of the 5 studies found no improvement in performance with CT (concurrent resistance + endurance training), but these studies added RT ( resistance training) on top of the athletes' existing ET ( endurance training). The 3 studies with improved cycling performance replaced a portion of the athletes' ET with RT, and 2 of the 3 studies included high-intensity explosive-type resistance exercises.

All of these studies used trained cyclists. if you want to look at running and cross country skiing you can find much more evidence for resistance training improving endurance performance (these sports are limited by similar physiological mechanisms as cycling so it would be logical to assume they are affected similarly by resistance training)

There are also a number of studies that show improvements in elements of physiology but not actual cycling performance and others that show no improvements in either.

Last point, resistance training does not necessarily mean heavy weight training

If anyone wants the full articles of any of the studies send me a pm.

Dear me this topic comes around once again!!

Cycling and running ar nothing a like tbh.

reacher

Pokerface wrote:

"The top guys in sport are useing [sic] chemicals"

So all pro athletes are on drugs? :roll:


I have nothing but time to train, and do so for several hours a day. Even with chemicals I would never be able to reach the heights they do. nevertheless, the same training techniques they use are used by myself and most other coached amateurs.

The difference between them and me is not chemicals or training time. It is genetics. You can't turn a donkey into a race horse, no matter how many drugs you pump into him or how many hours a day you run him around the track.

wondered what you were on about ,
i have more knowledge and experiance of chemical usage in sport than you could ever imagine ,
i can see that you have no desire to expand your knowledge
goodbye .

Pokerface

^--- :roll: :roll: :roll:


You are Dan Staite and I claim my £5



As you said in another post, you've never actually cycled before and it's clear you know f@ck all about it. This isn't your local gym where you can just pump a bunch of steroids and transform yourself overnight.