Sportives, i just dont get it.

sub55

Not whishing to cause an arguement as i know alot of you fella`s do lots of them.
But i just dont get it. After reading another thread, where a promotor is advertising his event as being super tough , well quite frankly they`re not. Much tougher audax`s out there. Combined with ,what can be quite steep entry fees for an sportives in relation to an audax costing somewhere between £ 4 and £8 to enter, for the extra money you get a feed station. Which you all seem to moan about anyway . Its either the wrong sort of food or the`ve just run out. Whereas the sensible ones out there have a control point in a cafe, with beans on toast and a mug of coffee.
Many sportive riders seem to treat it as a race , why?
We all know that its not a race and if you want to race ,go and race.
So explain to me why you do them?
OH, and i have ridden afew and i still dont get it.

a_n_t

sub55

:twisted:

Brian B

I remember a thread that was just the opposite that most sportive riders dont get why people would do an Audax.

I say each to his own and given the last threads over the years that there are a more than a few that do both or even more and race into the bargain.

Its all good as its on a bike

amaferanga

Most people are racing against themselves. It's an event to aim for (like a race) where people try to get into the best shape possible. Some folk do race others and sit on in groups, but at the end of the day they're just kidding themselves when they go telling all their mates how great they are. Everyone knows that they're not really races and that your average 3rd Cat racer would rip the legs of your average sportive rider.

The only audaxes that are tougher than the toughest sportives are only tougher because they are longer. And not everyone wants to do an event where they end up grovelling around shitty little towns at 3am looking for somewhere to get a receipt for proof of passage.

Audaxes are cheap because you often get nothing more than a silly little card. Some sportives are expensive and poor value for money.

I race, do occasional sportives and have previously done audax (including PBP). TBH I stopped doing audax because they got really boring - once you can cycle 600km or 1200km or whatever that's it - the challenge ends up being nothing more than a battle with the great British weather and less about cycling. Even on my first ever 600km audax I was several hours inside the time limit so there was no challenge other than to go faster. But that's not in the spirit of audax

At the end of the day if you don't like the idea of sportives then don't do them. But please don't become a typical sportive-bashing audaxer. They're even more boring than your standard audaxer.

sub55

Not moaning , what ever floats your boat is fine by me.
Just wanted someone to explain to me ,what it is you get out of them.
Personally , i come from a racing back ground and my passion has always been TT ing.
The object to get from A to B as fast as possible , done a fair amount of road racing , the object to be the first man across the line . Have done alittle audaxing ,ranging from 200k events with 5000m of ascent to 600k events , object to prove to myself i was hard enough. For the more dedicated auk riders there are season long competitions to go for. Although never been there myself . Done afew sportives and the object was , i dont know really? please help as i feel like im missing out on something.

Tom Butcher

Sportives are a kind of race - OK not everyone is really racing the event but most people are trying to get a fast time and maybe a decent finishing position - no different to a TT in that respect.

Toby_W

You see uber hard racers racing them and people mums packing a picnic, it's everyones ride. Sportives are a bit of everything. Audaxes aren't.

How can you not get them? Unless of course you're a painfully clever scientist lacking social understanding

Cheers

Toby

Rushie

Well, as a first season 4th Cat I won't be racing next season as (from the events I've looked at on the BC website throughout the season) you don't get to ride on the road until you get to 3rd Cat (which I won't be doing any time soon). So I'm confined to circuit races which I find a bit dull, frankly. The only other option therefore, assuming you don't want to go down the nhundred km Audax route, if you want to ride with a big group of other people, is a sportive. If there were lots of 4th Cat road races throughout the season I'd be all over them. But there aren't. Hence the sportives.

Tom Butcher

Plenty of road events for 4th cats Rushie - maybe not in your local area - but there are races including some good tough ones.

APIII

There's no secret really. You've admitted to riding a few so you know what you get. I ride one or two a year just for a bit of a change of scenery. It's obviously not your cup of tea. I've never been interested in bondage but I don't need any enthusiasts to explain why it appeals to them. In fact I'd rather not know :? We don't always need to understand!

jibberjim

Rushie wrote:

Well, as a first season 4th Cat I won't be racing next season as (from the events I've looked at on the BC website throughout the season) you don't get to ride on the road until you get to 3rd Cat (which I won't be doing any time soon).

You're a 55minute 3LC challenge guy in west london - the hillingdon winter series should get you enough points without too much trouble as long as you can follow a wheel!

But even if you don't there's plenty of 3/4 road races in SERRL well within range or north of london, it's just the surrey league that doesn't have them.

oldwelshman

sub55 wrote:

Not moaning , what ever floats your boat is fine by me.
Just wanted someone to explain to me ,what it is you get out of them.
Personally , i come from a racing back ground and my passion has always been TT ing.
The object to get from A to B as fast as possible , done a fair amount of road racing , the object to be the first man across the line . Have done alittle audaxing ,ranging from 200k events with 5000m of ascent to 600k events , object to prove to myself i was hard enough. For the more dedicated auk riders there are season long competitions to go for. Although never been there myself . Done afew sportives and the object was , i dont know really? please help as i feel like im missing out on something.

I could ask what yiu get out of doing TT's as I like most people who race find them boring I get bored after first mile
Each to their own I have done the odd sportive, prefer European ones which you get more from and are more like races anyway.
UK ones too expensive for what is basically a long, large club run.

guillaume

i treat sportives as a race against the clock - so that's a possible source of interest / satisfaction. i'm not a club member & nearly always cycle alone, so i find it interesting to ride with others once in a while. and i get to enjoy new routes & countryside w/out having to faff around with maps. and it gives a bit of structure & focus to my training.

danowat

I've had this discussion before....

IMO, Sportives are popular because..

1) They are well advertised
2) They are easy to enter (unlike audaxs, TT's, and road races, I mean, who the F has a flaming cheque book any more!!!!)
3) You need no license, you don't need to be a member of a club, therefore they appeal to the more "lifestyle" cyclist.
4) They are less daunting to enter and partake in then other forms of cycling event, which can feel a little "clicky" to the less informed cyclist.

I'd even go as far as to say that sportives are much less clandestine than other forms of cycling events, and I can see how, and why people are put off from entering TT's and Audax's, and just enter Sportives.

The rest of the cycling event world could do worse than look at the reasons why they are popular, and adjust other events to take advantage.

Dare I say that sportives (at least the ones I've done) are weekend warrior territory?, you know, the guys who turn up on uber expensive kit and then pootle round at 15mph

Norts56

Curiously enough - the kind of arguments that were put forward at the beginning of mountain bike racing

SBezza

Not everyone wants to actually properly race, getting to the finish as quick as possible is OK IMO, there are normally incentives to do so.

I used to do them before racing, and enjoyed the ones I did. I didn't do the mega hard ones, and wouldn't have done just on the basis that they are hard, in fact sportives are not really that hard, you get difficult bits but you also get large bits where you are just coasting along in a bunch, unless you go on the front and push the pace up :twisted: .

I did a local one in August this year, and was using it as a hard training ride before my 12 hour, and I ended up towing a few lads around with me, now it didn't bother me for me going around on my own wouldn't be an issue, but where is the satisfaction if you follow a wheel for the majority of it, surely doing it on your own is a far better challenge.

TT is my passion, and to some it can seem boring, I did a cat4 crit in the spring, and hell that was boring, most of the time spent coasting LOL. I don't see a TT as boring, I am normally in too much pain to worry about the boredom, if I got bored it would mean I am not putting enough effort in. Now a tough 12 hour, that is a challenge

danowat

SBezza wrote:

I don't see a TT as boring, I am normally in too much pain to worry about the boredom, if I got bored it would mean I am not putting enough effort in.

LOL, I hear that!.

Infact, no matter what I've done (TT, Crit, Sportive, heck even on commutes etc etc), I don't think I've been "bored"

PBo

danowat wrote:

4) They are less daunting to enter and partake in then other forms of cycling event, which can feel a little "clicky" to the less informed cyclist.

Maybe need some lube??

Unless you mean "cliquey"?

danowat

Forum pedant alert, you knew what I freakin meant

stevo1602

Well its not just "us fellas" that do them, there are quite a few chapesses....which is why I do them

jibberjim

stevo1602 wrote:

Well its not just "us fellas" that do them, there are quite a few chapesses....which is why I do them

I road race against women too... around 10% of the field in a couple of races (Stages of Etape de la Defonce)

Quite a lot of the races I did seemed to have at least one in...

ugo.santalucia

The sportive market is getting very much like the Triathlon market... there is significant demand, hence organisers are not pushed towards better value for money... they simply charge more year on year to offer less and less. It seems to work, as some events get fully booked in hours...

Frankly most sportives (there are exceptions, of course) are risible...

Audaxes offer value for money simply because nobody organises them as a money raising exercise, but rather for passion

derbygrimpeur

Re-started cycling in July and have done one sportive (The Tour Ride). For me, it was about getting round in a decent time (which I managed).

I used to TT when I was a youth and loved it. It's you against the clock. No sitting in etc. Fastest man wins. Never got much of a chance to road race when I was younger, a couple of circuit races that was it.

Now, as ugo.santalucia has pointed out, the sportive market is booming. I reckon (and this is definitely true in my case) it is due to it's accessbility. Someone else mentioned this earlier. You don't need to be a member of a club, easy to enter and no need for super-expensive bikes. Cycling is my second sport and I haven't the time nor money to invest in a TT bike and Racing bike in addition to the training bike I currently have. Therefore, sportives are probably the only events I'll do for a few years (until maybe I can convince the wife that spending a few grand on a TT bike is worth it)

vorsprung

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The sportive market is getting very much like the Triathlon market... there is significant demand, hence organisers are not pushed towards better value for money... they simply charge more year on year to offer less and less. It seems to work, as some events get fully booked in hours...

Frankly most sportives (there are exceptions, of course) are risible...

Audaxes offer value for money simply because nobody organises them as a money raising exercise, but rather for passion

It's clear to me that there are many sportive organisers that do the event for the love of it
Some audaxes are run as money making exercises.

As an audax organiser, one big difference to me is that of the logistics

I can organise my 400km event ( http://www.ukcyclist.co.uk/avalon ) expecting 30 entries or so, i only need one small carpark, the start is from a pub, I have about half a dozen correx signs and half a dozen helpers.

If I had 1000+ entries then all my time would go on organising tons of parking, venues, making and installing hundreds of direction arrows and keeping a small army of assistants happy

So my interest in the 400km event is to provide an great experience for the entrants pretty much directly. It's all handmade, bespoke, boutique, limited edition. It is not mass produced, one-size-fits-all, chain store, best seller.

andy_wrx

Sportives are the cycling equivalent of running 10K's or marathons.

Prior to about 1980, hardly anyone ran except for serious club runners and there were few races, poorly advertised outside those in the serious-runners circles.

The the 'marathon boom' came along and everyone was running, big events like the London or New York marathon had 30000 people out and there's lots of 5K's, 10K's, Halfs on every weekend, where ordinary people are out there doing it, many not members of running clubs, just doing it as a fitness activity or to raise money for charity rather than with any possibility of winning anything.

Sportives are the same thing, a few years delayed as the 'cycling boom' started in about 2000 rather than 1980.
Sportives are easy to enter, you don't have to be a member of a club or have a racing license, they attract lots of people who aren't die-hard enthusiasts but are weekend fitness riders, riding against their own targets, be they to 'get a time' or 'just get round'.

They enjoy being part of a big event with lots of other people like them, and they think they're in a race because the organisers publish results and give them a big number to stick on the front of their bike (even though it's really there so the photographer can flog you pictures...)

I just don't see anything wrong with them - do them if you want, don't do them if you don't, but I don't see why anyone should sneer at those doing them because 'they're not proper races' or'it's not real cycling'.

If they get people out on their bikes, and those people enjoy them then that's surely a good thing ?
And if it means that some of these people start to take their cycling more seriously and drift-over into joining clubs and entering TT's/races/audaxes/etc then surely that's a good thing too ?

Hibbs

sub55 wrote:

Not moaning , what ever floats your boat is fine by me.
Just wanted someone to explain to me ,what it is you get out of them.
Personally , i come from a racing back ground and my passion has always been TT ing.
The object to get from A to B as fast as possible , done a fair amount of road racing , the object to be the first man across the line . Have done alittle audaxing ,ranging from 200k events with 5000m of ascent to 600k events , object to prove to myself i was hard enough. For the more dedicated auk riders there are season long competitions to go for. Although never been there myself . Done afew sportives and the object was , i dont know really? please help as i feel like im missing out on something.

The objective to sportives is whatever you want it to be. I don't get why people treat them as a race, either. I use them for base training for proper road racing, and pick ones with a good amount of hillage, then go at my own pace for in-season base-training, so usually L2 on the bits between the hills and teasing the anaerobic threshold on the hills. It serves my purpose of getting some good hill training in with a set route that I wouldn't otherwise know. I also steal sportive routes and go and do them myself using the garmin, but it's nice to have feed stops to top up the drink at sportives.

greeny12

I was going to chip in on this but andy_wrx has just summed it up perfectly.

Everybody's free to do whatever they want to do, how they want to do it - there's too much snobbery in road cycling and a bit more laissez-faire would not go amiss....

phreak

UK sportives are one thing but I did the Maratona dles Dolomites this summer and it's fantastic. 15,000 or so riders, live on RAI, up some incredible mountains, and yes, it is incredibly well organised.

That for me is how sportives should be. To be honest having done them it is a bit hard to motivate myself to enter UK ones this winter/spring but will need some long rides as signed up for the Granfondo Pantani next summer and need bike time to practice the Mortirolo and Gavia passes

jgsi

phreak wrote:

UK sportives are one thing but I did the Maratona dles Dolomites this summer and it's fantastic. 15,000 or so riders, live on RAI, up some incredible mountains, and yes, it is incredibly well organised.

That for me is how sportives should be. To be honest having done them it is a bit hard to motivate myself to enter UK ones this winter/spring but will need some long rides as signed up for the Granfondo Pantani next summer and need bike time to practice the Mortirolo and Gavia passes

This really isnt fair.... I just wish I did have the wherewithall to get on some Italian sportives even tho I'd be riding a Cannondale with Shimano........

tbh surely someone else gets irritated by people wickering on about
the feedstations were really good/poor/non existent..... oh dear .. take your own.. you wont fail a test.
A truly British obsession.

ugo.santalucia

andy_wrx wrote:

Sportives are the cycling equivalent of running 10K's or marathons.

Prior to about 1980, hardly anyone ran except for serious club runners and there were few races, poorly advertised outside those in the serious-runners circles.

The the 'marathon boom' came along and everyone was running, big events like the London or New York marathon had 30000 people out and there's lots of 5K's, 10K's, Halfs on every weekend, where ordinary people are out there doing it, many not members of running clubs, just doing it as a fitness activity or to raise money for charity rather than with any possibility of winning anything.

Sportives are the same thing, a few years delayed as the 'cycling boom' started in about 2000 rather than 1980.
Sportives are easy to enter, you don't have to be a member of a club or have a racing license, they attract lots of people who aren't die-hard enthusiasts but are weekend fitness riders, riding against their own targets, be they to 'get a time' or 'just get round'.

They enjoy being part of a big event with lots of other people like them, and they think they're in a race because the organisers publish results and give them a big number to stick on the front of their bike (even though it's really there so the photographer can flog you pictures...)

I just don't see anything wrong with them - do them if you want, don't do them if you don't, but I don't see why anyone should sneer at those doing them because 'they're not proper races' or'it's not real cycling'.

If they get people out on their bikes, and those people enjoy them then that's surely a good thing ?
And if it means that some of these people start to take their cycling more seriously and drift-over into joining clubs and entering TT's/races/audaxes/etc then surely that's a good thing too ?

I agree with you 100%. What you didn't say is that these events, that used to be low cost and affordable, with well stocked food stations etc, have now become in a few years overly expensive and quality has gone down rather than up. How come the entry fee increases 10-20% year on year, if the rate of inflation is only 3-4%?

I have given up sportives purely on the grounds that 30+ pounds are excessive in my view... 4-5 years ago the average was around 10-15 pounds, now it's 30... a bit too much for me to committ into an event 6 months in advance, when I perfectly know that I have 50% chances of being there on the day... poor weather, other commitments etc. come in the way far too often... It might make sense for someone, not me. 10 pounds yes, 30 no!