Black Cycling Clothing = Death

Valy

Frank the tank wrote:

The only time I've been knocked off my bike I was wearing a typical yellow cycling jacket with reflective piping, it was 5.45am on 23/12/2004 and I had no less than FOUR REAR LIGHTS on,

This car endevoured came from behind and made a left turn wiping out my front wheel (hence he had carried out an overtaking manouvre and cut me up) then carried on without stopping. Fortunately the vehicle following car pulled up and asked if I was ok and did I want him to chase the driver down. Which I said yes to.

I asked if HE could see me (bearing in mind he was behind the car that hit me) Yes mate, you were like a christmas tree.

When I confronted the driver of the car he claimed "I never saw you"

LOAD OF BOLLOX.

DON'T MATTER WHAT YOU WEAR,THEY'LL ALWAYS CLAIM THEY NEVER SAW YOU.
On some occassions it will be true they don't see you but it won't necessarily be down to what the cyclist is wearing but on the attentiveness of the driver.

What acshun have you taken?

Frank the tank

Got in touch with Alyson France and sued the b@st@rd. Ended up with a £3k pay-out. I wasn't seriously hurt at all and had he stopped and done the decent thing I'd have settled for an appology and having my bike repaired.

Valy

That looks like a good outcome. What were your injuries? A few bruises and such?

AlunP

You ought to be able to wear any colour you like.

The fact is you are less likely to get hit if you are well lit (in low light as well as at night) I use a vile yellow/green jacket, strobe lights, a mountaineering headtorch - the works. If anyone has a fixture to bolt a WW2 searchlight on my bike frame please stick it on eBay and I will have it. I ended up on someone's bonnet a few years ago after he failed to stop at a junction - and then the driver shouted at me to get off his car :-( Lights and Hi Viz helps - but is of course no guarantee.

If you are well insured and in a dodgy marriage don't be surprised to see your partner put an all black outfit in your xmas stocking. And camouflage green for daytime use.

Frank the tank

Valy wrote:

That looks like a good outcome. What were your injuries? A few bruises and such?

As I recall my hip was bruised/grazed elbow similar, like I say nothing very serious really, had worse when a third party wasn't involved. As I said IF he had done the right thing I would have accepted an appology and my bike being repaired.

Having said that (twice) I think a lot of motorists have no appreciation of the cost of repairs to (just a bike) so perhaps I would go down the same route if ever it did happen again.

Valy

AlunP wrote:

You ought to be able to wear any colour you like.

The fact is you are less likely to get hit if you are well lit (in low light as well as at night) I use a vile yellow/green jacket, strobe lights, a mountaineering headtorch - the works. If anyone has a fixture to bolt a WW2 searchlight on my bike frame please stick it on eBay and I will have it. I ended up on someone's bonnet a few years ago after he failed to stop at a junction - and then the driver shouted at me to get off his car :-( Lights and Hi Viz helps - but is of course no guarantee.

If you are well insured and in a dodgy marriage don't be surprised to see your partner put an all black outfit in your xmas stocking. And camouflage green for daytime use.

Wow, what a prick . I am inclined to maybe give BOD as it could have been to shock, but still...

What happened afterwards?

GyatsoLa

Its annoying how little research there seems to be on this topic. I've just been reading the book 'Traffic' by Tom Vanderbilt and he quotes numerous studies on accidents and the conclusion is that... well, its complicated. There are many studies (mainly involving motorcycling accidents) that reveal counterintuitive outcomes. It seems that our brains have all sorts of strange little quirks that mean that sometimes we don't see what is 'obvious'. I was thinking of this a while back when I was walking through my local park on a foggy evening. I noticed a cyclist on the path - mainly wearing dark clothes, but with some deep red colours on her jacket. It wasn't until she got much closer that I realised she was one of a pair of cyclists - the other woman was in bright yellow florescent. For whatever reason, my eyes didn't pick up on her until she was quite close. So in my experience, in at least some light conditions, hi viz yellow is not the best colour.

I have heard it suggested that the use of hi viz jackets is becoming less and less useful as their ubiquity means that drivers are 'zoning out', not registering them like they did when they were something of a novelty. I'm not sure if there is any research confirming this. From my own experience driving, I find that different contrasts in clothing makes cyclists a bit more visible. I also find that its 'moving' reflectives that seem to catch the eye and say 'cyclist' - thats why I always wear reflective leg bands and I stick reflectors on my helmet and cap, while in general I'm not too bothered about wearing hi viz jackets (yes, I do have at least one dark coloured cycling jacket).

izza

I got hit a few years ago where an elderly gentleman pulled across my path and I hit windscreen and then onwards over his bonnet onto the ground.

The nearest witness had to be restrained from taking out his disbelief on the car driver in a physical fashion. The driver's son appeared on the scene and told us to leave his father alone as he had a dodgy ticker and couldn't handle stress. Whilst looking up at the police woman who stopped to investigate the incident I noted on hearing these words that if he had such a medical condition how could he keep his licence.

I was wearing a yellow and black top and black helmet.

Result

1) I looked over the next few weeks around and personally felt that other cyclists with bright helmets were more visible as the added height of your head meant the contrast against cars (whose bulk is generally lower) was exaggerated.
2) However, bright you dress accidents will happen. Thankfully I understand the driver who hit me (he was driving a courtesy car at the time as his own car was in for bodywork repairs) has now had his insurance rescinded and is off the road.
3) I will only go out in bright coloured gear with striking patterns to stand out from the traffic.

izza

meanredspider wrote:

Probably because it's "slimming" - and it just looks better on most people. It also "goes" with just about any top. It's also probably a bit less "revealing" too.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but given the above it does surprise me to see numerous Premiership goalkeepers wearing black.

Berk Bonebonce

izza wrote:

Don't mean to hijack the thread but given the above it does surprise me to see numerous Premiership goalkeepers wearing black.

I believe there has been some footballing research done to determine what is the best colour for a goalkeeper to wear. Purple, it appears, can make a goalkeeper look 'bigger' than he/she actually is.

GyatsoLa - Yes. It is interesting how people's experiences at being seen, or not seen, sometimes seem entirely counter-intuitive. And I wonder if there are also male/female differences attributable to the male role as hunter-gatherer.

If I was head of a cycle clothing company I would just not sleep at all well at night if my range included all black kit.

ct4oc

people don't see me in a bright yellow ambulance with high vis all over it, flashing lights, sirens and ECNALUBMA writen accross the front.

When i'm riding I have falshing lights on front and rear, at night or if there's weather I wear a yellow night vision jacket, otherwise a Duff beer cycle team top.

Been knocked off 4 times this year.

On the question of helmets, in my experience people without helmets end up with worse head injuries for similar incidents than people with helmets. I don't know what the clinical evidence is for this, just in my experience. 8)

GyatsoLa

On subject of clothing with striking patterns and colours, I wonder if they are as visible as people think in urban situations. Military camoflage often uses striking patterns in order to 'break up' the outline of a soldier, vehicle or aircraft - the theory being that our eyes are looking for certain shapes, not specific colours (think of a tigers orange and black stripes, which make them hard to spot in green foliage).

From my reading of the evidence, you need to look 'human shaped' to be sure you can be spotted. Some high contrast tops may do the exact opposite.

cougie

The colour thing is interesting.

I've seen two hi viz runners almost collide of an evening - so clearly when its dark - fluo yellow isnt any good - no surprise there.

On Sunday rides - I see riders ahead of me further away if they're in yellow or fluo.
Almost as good is bright red. And blue isnt much better than grey or black.

I was tempted by a nice rainjacket this year - the ladies version was a bright purple colour - the blokes grey. Stupid idea for a jacket that you'd wear only on foul days.

Black and white stripes seem to be quite good for visibility ?

meanredspider

cougie wrote:

Black and white stripes seem to be quite good for visibility ?

I think it would be on some days - but on a snowy day, it's more like the camouflage that arctic forces wear. That's where the fluoro colours excel - they aren't common in nature and help catch the eye.

As for red, can any of the R/G colourblind folk say whether that blends with a green background?

rokkala

I'm surprised some people here manage to actually leave their houses.

meanredspider

Rokkala wrote:

I'm surprised some people here manage to actually leave their houses.

Leaving is easy - personally, I'd like to get back too.

I also think I owe it to other road users to be visible as well. To me, there's a degree of selfishness in not making an effort to be visible. It's like people that don't indicate or just put side lights on when dipped beam is needed - it just shows a lack of awareness of or consideration for other road users...

gmb

Sorry if this is already in this thread but - on a Accident Report Form which police officers fill in following a Road Traffic Collision there is a section where the officer can state what, in their opinion, may have contributed to the accident and how likely this is (possible or very likely).

One of these options is "cyclist in dark clothing".

All of the options are negative actions e.g. poor manoeuver, failed to look properly etc.

So if you happen to be knocked off your bike while wearing dark clothing, it may be felt that your choice of jersey contributed.

I'm a cop - I wear black jerseys.

JD_76

GMB wrote:

Sorry if this is already in this thread but - on a Accident Report Form which police officers fill in following a Road Traffic Collision there is a section where the officer can state what, in their opinion, may have contributed to the accident and how likely this is (possible or very likely).

One of these options is "cyclist in dark clothing".

All of the options are negative actions e.g. poor manoeuver, failed to look properly etc.

So if you happen to be knocked off your bike while wearing dark clothing, it may be felt that your choice of jersey contributed.

I'm a cop - I wear black jerseys.

Interesting to know.

In the eyes of the law if the dark clothing had reflective patches on it and the bike had lights on be seen as "doing enough" to make the clothing a non contributing factor?

Or is dark clothing just seen as a bad choice regardless of other factors?

mrwibble

I nearly got hit head on by a transit doing about 60 mph while wearing my 'cool' black cycling clothing about three years ago. He was on my side of the road at the time overtaking a car, came within about twelve inches of certain death.

Valy

What time of day was it?

harkmeadow

bright colours & lights all the way here. Dont understand why you dont want to give yourself every chance of being seen and hopefully avoided. See far too many people out recently in crap weather looking 'cool' or just plain dumb depending on which way you look at it.

GyatsoLa

cougie wrote:

Black and white stripes seem to be quite good for visibility ?

I suspect that stripes might in some circumstances act as camouflage, 'breaking up' your silhouette, like a zebra's stripes.

I've noticed that some of the best German cyclewear often goes for reflective piping running along the shoulder and arms. At first I thought it was just for design purposes, but I wonder if its intended to make sure that the rider has a 'human' shape when seen in headlights. As I mentioned above, the research I've read indicates that the more 'human' shaped you are the more visible you are to drivers. Its not enough to just be bright, as the urban environment is full of odd bright shapes.

paulbox

After reading this thread yesterday lunchtime I was sitting in a meeting room in the afternoon, feet up, listening in to a conference call. The meeting room overlooks a busy crossroads controlled by traffic lights.

It was a dull overcast day, very cold, the roads cleared of most of the snow. Most cars had their headlights on.

A fella came along on his black mountain bike, dressed all in black clothing including a black beanie hat (no helmet) and had no lights on. The guy was trapped in the middle of the crossroads waiting to turn right and I was convinced that he was going to be hit by a car. Thankfully he wasn't...

I don't care what people say, but us cyclists have a duty to make ourselves as visible as possible. I drive a car too and don't want knocking a fellow cyclist off their bike on my conscience.

wildmoustache

PaulBox wrote:

After reading this thread yesterday lunchtime I was sitting in a meeting room in the afternoon, feet up, listening in to a conference call. The meeting room overlooks a busy crossroads controlled by traffic lights.

It was a dull overcast day, very cold, the roads cleared of most of the snow. Most cars had their headlights on.

A fella came along on his black mountain bike, dressed all in black clothing including a black beanie hat (no helmet) and had no lights on. The guy was trapped in the middle of the crossroads waiting to turn right and I was convinced that he was going to be hit by a car. Thankfully he wasn't...

I don't care what people say, but us cyclists have a duty to make ourselves as visible as possible. I drive a car too and don't want knocking a fellow cyclist off their bike on my conscience.

The big thing here is the no lights.

I agree with those who say it's almost all about lights and reflectives. Hi Viz clothing helps a little (speaking as a driver here), but the big things to get right in the dark are lights and reflectives.

So many people seem to have crap lights. It's almost as if they have a light to obey the law rather than to enhance their safety.

I usually run with two lights at the front and two at the rear. One thing I've noticed as a driver in London is that two or more lights flashing out of sync catches the eye very effectively.

ShutUpLegs

mrwibble wrote:

I nearly got hit head on by a transit doing about 60 mph while wearing my 'cool' black cycling clothing about three years ago. He was on my side of the road at the time overtaking a car, came within about twelve inches of certain death.

So bright clothing would have changed this drivers behaviour?

meanredspider

ShutUpLegs wrote:

So bright clothing would have changed this drivers behaviour?

Presumably the Transit driver didn't see him (or is a psycho) as no-one in their right mind passes a cyclist head-on at 60mph within 12"

Frank the tank

GMB's post, is there a section on the form asking what colour the vehicle was? Black, dark blue etc.

'praps all vehicles should be dyno-rod orange or hi-viz yellow.

Valy

Man, this thread has turned into some buuulshit.

gmb

Frank the tank wrote:

GMB's post, is there a section on the form asking what colour the vehicle was? Black, dark blue etc.

'praps all vehicles should be dyno-rod orange or hi-viz yellow.

No and the worrying thing is that it is the opinion of the officer completing which is reflected. Don't get me wrong, it's just a factor in trying to determine why the collision (they are no longer called accidents as that implies there was nothing to blame) occurred.

ShutUpLegs

Valy wrote:

Man, this thread has turned into some buuulshit.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Cyc ... ticle.html

More evidence