Black Cycling Clothing = Death

bompington

shm_uk wrote:

I have come across many many cyclists & pedestrians wearing dark/black clothing.
I have never run any over. Or nearly run any over.

Nobody I have ever known or met has ever run over a 'stealth' cyclist.

So the evidence from my personal experience...

:roll:

I have never died in a car accident, so obviously no-one ever does.

jimilindley

Hi viz colours during the day, and reflectives/lights at night.

Colours do make a difference, otherwise the H&S Executive would not have rules about workers wearing hi viz in warehouses or on roads, this will all be research based.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool

dmch2

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

On average people have less than 2 legs...

On average, 99.9% of people incorrectly write 'less' instead of 'fewer'.

True, but that's part of the 'joke' of the comment. Of course you can only have an integer number of legs but some people only have 1 or none. So the average is 1.9 something. which is less than 2 but clearly nonsense as the average person has 2.

wyadvd

i dont notice any discernible difference in the way motoriists behave around me whatever the colour of my jacket. i do have a maxxd on the front and a dinotte 300r on strobe on the back though!

wyadvd

night and day regardless

Valy

Sorry OP - did you forget about lights?

Hoopdriver

Lights matter. A lot. And a lot more than clothes. My cold weather cycle kit is all black - softshell jacket and bibtights and black gloves, and no worries ever so far - but a reflective vest, a Lupine Betty headlamp and a Cateye 1100 tail light do change the equation rather a lot. I'd say I was plenty visible.

Anyone who is going to run me over with all that going, would run me over no matter what.

ratsbeyfus

ooermissus wrote:

People even forget surprisingly often that their kids are strapped in the back seat - 20 or so kids die in America each year in this way. They're not stupid - just distracted.

Read this if you don't believe me - but, be warned, it'll ruin your morning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 49_pf.html

I've just tried reading the article, but had to stop because it is so unbearably sad. As a parent with two young kids, I can see how easy it would be to do, and how utterly devestating it would be. Part of me regrets reading the article, but part of me is also grateful for having such a terrible thing brought to my attention.

meanredspider

I love reading these threads. There's so much of the "this happened to me" evidence used to justify opinions.

Why is it that the world's special forces (including our own SAS) often wear black? Because it's this season's colour? Because it's "slimming" (one of the reasons why so much gym kit is black BTW)? Or could it be that it makes you harder to see?

Try this experiment - look through black mesh then look through white mesh and check which is easier to look through. Never done it? Machine mesh guarding is often black for the very reason that it appears invisible to the eye compared to the brighter background.

The whole point of black is that it absorbs light (by definition). It's also a shame that roads, shadows, darkness are all also black.

And yes, I can confirm that black cars are much harder to see. I was driving the 120 miles down the A9 today in drizzle and poor light. Some complete muppets coming the other way didn't have lights on. The black & grey cars are much harder to see.

And lights are great, I agree, but represent poor protection from the side.

And, yes, I've nearly run down a pedestrian. On a narrow unlit country road in the dark with a car coming the other way, he was walking in the road on my side away from me top-to-toe in black. Almost invisible. I'm sure if it weren't for my experience as a racing driver, aiming for the space and not the obstruction, I'd have hit him.

Like the helmet thing, I don't mind what people choose, it just funny how people will rationalise their choices and try to use a (perceived) lack of hard stats to prove their point.

Gazzetta67

While i agree it`s difficult to spot a cyclist wearing dark clothing i had a Hi Viz night vision jacket on and some numptie came out in front of me and i went flying head first over the boot. - Guy got out checked his car and drove off and it was a busy junction. NOBODY got his reg number all too busy wanting to get home for dinner.

I am more concerned with folk texting at the wheel now - i have seen loads do it.

Valy

meanredspider wrote:

I love reading these threads. There's so much of the "this happened to me" evidence used to justify opinions.

Why is it that the world's special forces (including our own SAS) often wear black? Because it's this season's colour? Because it's "slimming" (one of the reasons why so much gym kit is black BTW)? Or could it be that it makes you harder to see?

Try this experiment - look through black mesh then look through white mesh and check which is easier to look through. Never done it? Machine mesh guarding is often black for the very reason that it appears invisible to the eye compared to the brighter background.

The whole point of black is that it absorbs light (by definition). It's also a shame that roads, shadows, darkness are all also black.

And yes, I can confirm that black cars are much harder to see. I was driving the 120 miles down the A9 today in drizzle and poor light. Some complete muppets coming the other way didn't have lights on. The black & grey cars are much harder to see.

And lights are great, I agree, but represent poor protection from the side.

And, yes, I've nearly run down a pedestrian. On a narrow unlit country road in the dark with a car coming the other way, he was walking in the road on my side away from me top-to-toe in black. Almost invisible. I'm sure if it weren't for my experience as a racing driver, aiming for the space and not the obstruction, I'd have hit him.

Like the helmet thing, I don't mind what people choose, it just funny how people will rationalise their choices and try to use a (perceived) lack of hard stats to prove their point.

You are f*cking awesome.

unixnerd

You are f*cking awesome.

He's also f*cking right.

Paul RS

﹟1 Bright Lights
﹟2 Reflective kit
﹟3 Colourful clothing
﹟4 Dark clothing

Your life, your choice, however, ﹟4 and no lights, if someone doesn't see you, it's your fault. The onus is on us to be seen, not killed.

cougie

I wish walkers had better jackets - we go up to the Lakes over Xmas and you often get walkers caught out by the short days and having to finish their walks in the dark. Quite often they have to walk down roads to get back to their cars. None of the walking jackets I've seen have reflectives and they're usually dark colours too.

Unlit roads, dark jackets and no reflectives - makes it pretty hard for them to stand out.

bompington

cougie wrote:

I wish walkers had better jackets - we go up to the Lakes over Xmas and you often get walkers caught out by the short days and having to finish their walks in the dark. Quite often they have to walk down roads to get back to their cars. None of the walking jackets I've seen have reflectives and they're usually dark colours too.

Unlit roads, dark jackets and no reflectives - makes it pretty hard for them to stand out.

Bring back the orange cagoule!

danowat

meanredspider wrote:

I love reading these threads. There's so much of the "this happened to me" evidence used to justify opinions.

And yes, I can confirm that black cars are much harder to see. I was driving the 120 miles down the A9 today in drizzle and poor light. Some complete muppets coming the other way didn't have lights on. The black & grey cars are much harder to see.

And, yes, I've nearly run down a pedestrian. On a narrow unlit country road in the dark with a car coming the other way, he was walking in the road on my side away from me top-to-toe in black. Almost invisible. I'm sure if it weren't for my experience as a racing driver, aiming for the space and not the obstruction, I'd have hit him.

Irony?

balthazar

meanredspider wrote:

Why is it that the world's special forces (including our own SAS) often wear black? Because it's this season's colour? Because it's "slimming" (one of the reasons why so much gym kit is black BTW)? Or could it be that it makes you harder to see?

Try this experiment - look through black mesh then look through white mesh and check which is easier to look through. Never done it? Machine mesh guarding is often black for the very reason that it appears invisible to the eye compared to the brighter background.
...

I'm sure if it weren't for my experience as a racing driver, aiming for the space and not the obstruction, I'd have hit him.

Gareth Keenan? Is that you?

meanredspider

danowat wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I love reading these threads. There's so much of the "this happened to me" evidence used to justify opinions.

And yes, I can confirm that black cars are much harder to see.....

And, yes, I've nearly run down a pedestrian....

Irony?

I wondered who would pick this up

There's a clue though in the "And, yes.." bit of the sentence - I was just too lazy to point out that they were both answers to questions people had posed earlier in the thread - I should have provided the quotes.... :roll: :oops:

Frank the tank

The only time I've been knocked off my bike I was wearing a typical yellow cycling jacket with reflective piping, it was 5.45am on 23/12/2004 and I had no less than FOUR REAR LIGHTS on,

This car endevoured came from behind and made a left turn wiping out my front wheel (hence he had carried out an overtaking manouvre and cut me up) then carried on without stopping. Fortunately the vehicle following car pulled up and asked if I was ok and did I want him to chase the driver down. Which I said yes to.

I asked if HE could see me (bearing in mind he was behind the car that hit me) Yes mate, you were like a christmas tree.

When I confronted the driver of the car he claimed "I never saw you"

LOAD OF BOLLOX.

DON'T MATTER WHAT YOU WEAR,THEY'LL ALWAYS CLAIM THEY NEVER SAW YOU.
On some occassions it will be true they don't see you but it won't necessarily be down to what the cyclist is wearing but on the attentiveness of the driver.

meanredspider

balthazar wrote:

Gareth Keenan? Is that you?

PMSL - err no. :oops:

I did work at the Royal Ordnance factory in Enfield once and organised some of the handover of the SA80 to the British Army - but I can't kill a man "coming hard from behind"

The race driving bit though is more serious. I've only been racing 3 seasons but what it's done for my ability to process and act on situations has really surprised me. It has also transformed my road driving in terms of awareness, where I'm looking and my assimilation of information. Competition really does improve the breed.

Gazzaputt

Frank the tank wrote:

The only time I've been knocked off my bike I was wearing a typical yellow cycling jacket with reflective piping, it was 5.45am on 23/12/2004 and I had no less than FOUR REAR LIGHTS on,

This car endevoured came from behind and made a left turn wiping out my front wheel (hence he had carried out an overtaking manouvre and cut me up) then carried on without stopping. Fortunately the vehicle following car pulled up and asked if I was ok and did I want him to chase the driver down. Which I said yes to.

I asked if HE could see me (bearing in mind he was behind the car that hit me) Yes mate, you were like a christmas tree.

When I confronted the driver of the car he claimed "I never saw you"

LOAD OF BOLLOX.

DON'T MATTER WHAT YOU WEAR,THEY'LL ALWAYS CLAIM THEY NEVER SAW YOU.
On some occassions it will be true they don't see you but it won't necessarily be down to what the cyclist is wearing but on the attentiveness of the driver.

Totally agree with this post.

Exactly the same has happened to me 3 times and each time it was a SMIDSY despite lit up like a xmas tree and high vis jacket and bag cover.

meanredspider

Valy wrote:

You are f*cking awesome.

Thank you

I should apologise if I come across as holier-than-thou or arrogant or preacher or whatever, though. I'm sitting on a cancer ward in Glasgow whilst my 13 year old son has chemotherapy. The effect of this sh1t is that it has removed the filter I'd normally have from thought to written/spoken word - I'm just saying things exactly as I think them because I can't be bothered about the fact that I might upset someone's sensibilities.

My job these days is to make sure the medical devices we make don't harm the 100 million patients we treat every year. As you'd hope, this stuff relies on some pretty rigorous statistics, engineering, testing, clinics and evidence. Then I read stuff like this in threads whilst feeling a little angry with the world already and it pisses me off because it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny that stuff I do only my daily job has to. That's my problem. This is, after all, just a forum. I've never met any of you nor am I likely to. If you get run down, I'll be sad in the way that I'm sad when anyone is killed needlessly. I need to get over it.

Sorry.

Richard.

Mark Alexander

KingCustard wrote:

Makes you wonder why black is the default colour for cycle shorts really.

I've never understood why black stuff is the default colour especially for night riding with a few reflectives. Can someone explain this to me. Id have thought that bright colours/ more reflectives would be better for the legs which are moving so much.

meanredspider

Mark Alexander wrote:

I've never understood why black stuff is the default colour especially for night riding with a few reflectives. Can someone explain this to me. Id have thought that bright colours/ more reflectives would be better for the legs which are moving so much.

Probably because it's "slimming" - and it just looks better on most people. It also "goes" with just about any top. It's also probably a bit less "revealing" too.

Mark Alexander

Ah yes, the 'revealing' issue. I remember now.

amaferanga

I'm seeing a lot of cyclists at the moment in the morning at around 8am with lights attached to their bikes, but with them switched off. Ok so its not actually dark, but the lights make MUCH more difference to the visibility of a cyclist then the yellow reflectives most of them are wearing. I guess they think the invincibility cloak is going to save them so they don't need lights....

cougie

Black is practical for shorts - back in the day it was the easiest cheapest option. Now we can do lycra with different panels in pretty easily - you can put more colour into them - but simpler if its all black. Cant really argue with that.

If you're riding at night then I dont think colour is that much of an issue. Fluo yellow doesnt show up that well - so you may as well have something black but with shedloads of reflectives on - and get decent lights on the bike.

True some motorists will still not see you - but they crash into other lit cars, trees, motorway signs too. Be as visible as you can and you'll help yourself out with everyone other than the really dopy morons.

paulbox

gsk82 wrote:

i think reflective is more important than colour. my black campag jacket with reflective strips is probably far more visible than my royal blue gore jersey without them.

Only at night.

In the day time reflective does nothing.

meanredspider

Interested to see that the good Doctor (he of the Carbon vs Steel bike debate) would spend the money again not on a carbon bike but better-fitting hi-viz clothing and lights.

Without wanting to start the debate here, I'm always also interested to see which way doctors (especially A&E doctors) go on the helmet vs no helmet debate. They do, after all, see the aftermath of such accidents. I see this doc (dunno if he works on A&E stuff) wears a lid. It looks black

Stu T

Mark Alexander wrote:

Ah yes, the 'revealing' issue. I remember now.

bit like this

http://www.allcrazyfunny.com/index.php? ... y_pictures