Black Cycling Clothing = Death

cougie

If we're talking about daytime then colour does make a difference.
I wear black shorts/longs cos its the most suitable colour.
My Rapha winter jacket is black but I wear a light fluoro gilet over the top of it.
Colour does play a big part in being seen - you can see for yourself out on any Sunday ride. You'll spot the fluo tops ages before you'll see a black or blue top.

It doesnt excuse a driver not seeing you if you're clad like a ninja - but we all know that there are almost blind or just plain bad drivers out there and anything I can do to be seen is good for me. I really dont want to have the moral highground argument from a hospital bed or worse.

My cycling pal was a ninja - everything was black from top to toe including bike. We meet on a dual carriageway of a Sunday. One dull winters day - I rode past him as he was coming towards me. I just didnt see him at all. He had to chase for ages to catch me. Next weekend he turned up with a fluo jacket.

Its just a colour - dont see the issue here - black may look 'cooler' but at the end of the day - we're wearing lycra so cool doesnt really come into it. ;-)

Increase your visibility by wearing something bright. Dont be like the muppet I saw on a foggy morning who was wearing a grey top and no lights.

Its no guarantee that you'll be seen 100% of the time - but its definitely better than being all black.

Mike67

To follow this argument to it's logical conclusion we'd all be wearing fluo tops, fluo shorts, and riding fluo bikes with a flashing light on our helmet.
All cars would be fluorescent yellow or orange, buses and trucks too. Don't forget we'd have to paint the sheep (and all other animals that may stray into the road) a suitably bright colour.

We'd certainly be living in a safer...but boring, retina damaging world. :roll:

Grump grump...

markos1963

It's funny, I went out with my club today and we passed loads of parked black cars with no lights on. Not once did any of us hiit said cars despite the poor light. Nor did I notice much damage to the black cars from other coloured cars which had crashed into them(or not as the case may be)

eh

I'm sure I saw evidence somewhere about black being better than high vis in bright, but low level sunlight,because of the large contrast differences.

I also think that what works around town for commuting, doesn't necessarily work in the countryside as the surroundings are very different.

de_sisti

I agree with the previous posts which suggests that been seen is down to driver concentration.
I have one of the brightest rear lights (Dinotte 400L) on today, and on two occassions drivers were
within touching distance when they overtook me. They did see me, otherwise they would have
driven into the back of me.

Oh, I wore a red windproof top with lots of reflective stripes that I put on, and I wore black roubaix tights,
again, adorned with reflective attachements stitched on by me.

Some drivers don't pay attention and some don't like giving cyclists room. Most are ok though.

andy162

My mate rides for Rapha. I hope he doesn't read this thread.

redjeepǃ

markos1963 wrote:

It's funny, I went out with my club today and we passed loads of parked black cars with no lights on. Not once did any of us hiit said cars despite the poor light. Nor did I notice much damage to the black cars from other coloured cars which had crashed into them(or not as the case may be)

I guess the study did only look at just over 855,000 accidents over a 17 year period and so probably wasn't as relevent as the handful you passed today. :?

I think the only recurring point to this thread is that maybe every little helps. It would seem likely that you can reduce (but not eliminate) the risks of an accident by wearing something bright, but it's all down to personal choice.

If you're prepared to take the risk, or don't think it makes any difference then it's down to you, it's a personal choice. I do think it makes a difference and so won't wear black or grey (but have a black helmet and shorts/ longs). There's no real proof either way, my only issue is the people you see at night/ dawn/ dusk/ fog in black with no lights, who I think must be suicidal.

cougie

markos1963 wrote:

It's funny, I went out with my club today and we passed loads of parked black cars with no lights on. Not once did any of us hiit said cars despite the poor light. Nor did I notice much damage to the black cars from other coloured cars which had crashed into them(or not as the case may be)

Well my father in law reversed into my black car in broad daylight. That same black car was also hit by a car carrying explosives (what are the chances ???) And it was finished off with a head on collision in the dark from a nobby driver on the wrong side of the road. I'd not really thought about the colour of the car until now !

Basically you'd need to be a moron to not see a parked car - but that's happened twice to my car.

I'm not saying a brighter car would definitely have avoided a knock or two - but its usually just a case of paying for repairs. Its not quite the same if you get hit cycling. I'd make an extra effort to avoid that.

pottssteve

[quote="Muztard"]Hopefully on tomorrow's ride these words won't come back to haunt me but I like black. My bike is anodised black, my bib tights are black, my jersey/jacket is black, my gloves are black but my helmet is white.

If fact with the exception of about 3 items all my kit it black :shock:

Tomorrow I'll go for the Red/white jacket [/quote]

Do you look like a pint of Guinness?

bompington

orbeaorca wrote:

Just back from my Sunday ride, wearing black overshoes,black legwarmers and shorts and a black jacket, helmet black and white and I made it back alive
As i did in the previous 245 rides I have made this year, always wearing predominantly black.
The idea that black = death is pants.

And what's more, my granny smoked 90 a day and lived to 90

Lillywhite

cougie wrote:

Colour does play a big part in being seen - you can see for yourself out on any Sunday ride. You'll spot the fluo tops ages before you'll see a black or blue top.

Exactly and that's the reason why the Health & Safety chappies now insist that anyone in the construction, heavy industrial, transport industries etc etc has to wear a hi-vis vest/coat even in daylight conditions.

kenniff

Years ago,research into vehicle accidents showed that red cars were involved in more accidents than any other colour.
This may have been because red was a dominant colour in vehicles then.
So statistics can baffle us,hi vis on a building site/road works is good because before then people just wore dirty clothes that where hard to pick out.
On a road i think its a different issue,the mind does'nt see inferior objects.
A cycle posses no threat to a car so the car is the dominant force.
In other words he knows you'll be submisive because your gunna get mashed,he is'nt.

bendertherobot

Contrast is important as well, I confess to wearing quite a lot of black. But I'd hope that my white bike, red shoes, etc would create a moving contrast.

Lillywhite

kenniff wrote:

Years ago,research into vehicle accidents showed that red cars were involved in more accidents than any other colour.

If you recall, years ago the first hi-vis jackets, usually worn by police and other emergency services were orange. However, it was found that fluorescent yellow was the best choice for hi-vis clothing and that's why it's now widely used.

Even horse riders, who traditionally wore dark green/brown clothing when out on their horses on rural roads and which blended with hedgerows are sporting hi-vis fluorescent jackets.

bompington

kenniff wrote:

Years ago,research into vehicle accidents showed that red cars were involved in more accidents than any other colour.
This may have been because red was a dominant colour in vehicles then..

Citation please?
Of course, it is just conceivable that the people doing these studies might be clever enough to correct for that kind of thing...

kenniff wrote:

On a road i think its a different issue,the mind does'nt see inferior objects.
A cycle posses no threat to a car so the car is the dominant force.
In other words he knows you'll be submisive because your gunna get mashed,he is'nt

Interesting theory, do you have any, err, evidence to back this up? It sounds vaguely plausible, but so, for example, does the one mentioned by an earlier poster about humans being predators who are hard-wired to spot prey. Which directly contradicts it.

I think I'm happy to go with the "if I wear more visible clothing / gear then it's more likely that more drivers will see me sooner" theory.
A lot of posters here don't seem to understand the slightest thing about statistics.

squired

I remember reading an article some years ago (in the CTC magazine I think) about a study that showed hi viz did nothing to reduce your chances of being in an accident when cycling. More recent studies may have been completed, but I don't recall them.

andydale

kenniff wrote:

Years ago,research into vehicle accidents showed that red cars were involved in more accidents than any other colour.
This may have been because red was a dominant colour in vehicles then..

Or - that people who buy/drive red cars are more prone to accidents!

bobinski

I think I'm happy to go with the "if I wear more visible clothing / gear then it's more likely that more drivers will see me sooner" theory.
A lot of posters here don't seem to understand the slightest thing about statistics.[/quote]

+1

markos1963

I think the colour of your clothing has very little to do with it on the road. I always put on a rear light in poor light conditions and i pay particular attention to my road position at all times. If you hide in the gutter than cars from behind won't bother about you and cars from side roads don't get to see you till the last moment. I have had as much bother in the summer wearing my team Euskatel orange jersey as i have had wearing my black kit in the winter,

moonshine

bompington wrote:

A lot of posters here don't seem to understand the slightest thing about statistics.

Apparently about 90% of statistics are made up on the spot! :oops:

G

Mike67

moonshine wrote:

bompington wrote:

A lot of posters here don't seem to understand the slightest thing about statistics.

Apparently about 90% of statistics are made up on the spot! :oops:

G

I think you'll find it's 91.2476%

kenniff

In recent surveys it was found that 50% of cyclist had a lower than average IQ.
The other 60% failed in basic mathematics.

Muztard

pottssteve wrote:

[quote="Muztard"]Hopefully on tomorrow's ride these words won't come back to haunt me but I like black. My bike is anodised black, my bib tights are black, my jersey/jacket is black, my gloves are black but my helmet is white.

If fact with the exception of about 3 items all my kit it black :shock:

Tomorrow I'll go for the Red/white jacket

Do you look like a pint of Guinness? [/quote]

I'm not tall enough to be a pint but I'd pass for a half

dmch2

kenniff wrote:

In recent surveys it was found that 50% of cyclist had a lower than average IQ.
The other 60% failed in basic mathematics.

On average people have less than 2 legs...

ShutUpLegs

So has anyone posted black = death?

secretsqizz

A lot who wear hi viz are just pompous arrrses.
FACT
It 's on wiki somewhere.

singlespeedexplosif

On average people have less than 2 legs...

On average, 99.9% of people incorrectly write 'less' instead of 'fewer'.

danowat

Colour of clothing makes NO difference, no matter how visable you make yourself, it won't make any difference, if someone is going to pull out on you, then they will.

I was once riding a BRIGHT YELLOW Triumph Daytona 650 (not a small bike) down a local high street, in the middle of the day, and guess what happened?, yep, some IDIOT pulled out in front of me which resulted in one written off Triumph, and one damaged me, and you know what the driver said?, "sorry, I didn't see you", I mean, just HOW visable do you need to be, there was no way, outside of a HUGE sign above my head, that I would have been seen,higher visability does not overide a lapse in concentration by the driver.

Sure, you can make yourself as visable as you can, but IMO, YOU need to be just as aware of your surrounds as "the others", be aware that theres a car at the junction and it may pull out, just like this morning, when some tool decided that they'd forget "give way to the right" on a roundabout, and nearly sideswiped me, but I'd already seen the potential hazard and slowed down, rather than think "yup, its my right of way, you better stop, because I ain't".

shm_uk

I have come across many many cyclists & pedestrians wearing dark/black clothing.
I have never run any over. Or nearly run any over.

Nobody I have ever known or met has ever run over a 'stealth' cyclist.

So the evidence from my personal experience indicates it's not black clothing that's the problem, it's other road users not paying proper attention that's the problem.

Some motorists are just plain stupid and are going to have an accident regardless.

ooermissus

shm_uk wrote:

Some motorists are just plain stupid and are going to have an accident regardless.

I think we massively overestimate our ability not to make mistakes when driving. Sure, a more careful driver will make fewer errors, but s/he will still make some.

Perhaps only techniques such as constantly commentating on your own driving can eliminate them by forcing a different type of concentration.

People even forget surprisingly often that their kids are strapped in the back seat - 20 or so kids die in America each year in this way. They're not stupid - just distracted.

Read this if you don't believe me - but, be warned, it'll ruin your morning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 49_pf.html