Londoners?
Comments
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oscarbudgie wrote:I grew up in the sticks (Lincolnshire) and have lived in London 20 years. Nice house in nice suburb, near to Epping Forest / Essex lanes etc but tbh I'm just fed up with the place now and can't wait to get out. Expensive, crowded, noisy, dirty - and thats the good bits. The mere thought of some of those real shitholes in (especially) SE London makes me shiver.
Try comparing Greenwich, Dulwich and Blackheath in SE London with bits of Harringay, Hackney, Holloway, bits of Tottenham in your precious north London.... Now THAT'S something to shudder at!Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
it also depends on your lfestyle, I have 3 young boys, 3,5,8. They need constant stimulation and the activities where I live they are second to none. Got grandparents in Bolton & High Wycombe and everytime we visit both of these areas have no where near as many pastimes for kids as the inner city does.
e.g During the summer holidays the council here orgainsed 'clubs' for kids to do all free of charge. My lad did climbing etc at an outdoor centre in caning town, 3 days of football at West Hams ground and learning circus tricks at Statford arts centre. Got swimming/leisure centre 5 mins from me and kids swim free, got 4 skate/BMX parks all with 20 mins and 6+ parks with climbing activity stuff, in fact one is jst behind my house.'..all the bad cats in the bad hats..'0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:redddraggon wrote:Engineering is definitely typical. It's everywhere. Airbus is one of the biggest employers in my local area, and they tend to employ engineers rather than Bankers
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I can understand senior management being based in London.
I'm suggesting Engineering is quite atpyical in the sense that it less about doing business, and more about making/desiging stuff. They don't provide intangible services for another company. It makes sense if you are, to be located reasonably near to your clients.
For a bit of context:
Of those jobs included in the 'private sector services', the vast majority are jobs that, while are done elsewhere ,you associate with being done mostly in London. Like I said, if you audit firms, why audit some mickey mouse yorkshire firm in Leeds when you could be auditing Sainsburys, or Unilever in London?Over the past twenty years, the services sector has grown much faster than the UK economy overall. By the end of last year, government figures on the sector1 show that private sector services accounted for over 55 per cent of all British jobs. In recent times, the volume of services the UK exports has grown annually by an average of 6.7 per cent and services now represents over a third of UK total export values.
The career prospects in London are absolutely one of the biggest draws - and the culture etc follows the people, rather than the other way around.
No-one in my office grew up in London - we all moved into London because of the work opportunities.
You're assuming that Engineering means involved in manufacturing. I'm a Consulting Engineer so very definately in the service sector. Our main client is based in Hertfordshire where we have an office but I work on numerous jobs for them, salaries in our various offices are pretty much the same for any given level (although we aren't a big company). My schemes have been in such diverse locations as Carrickfergus, Douglas, Skegness, Bexleyheath and Bangalore but all handled out of Bristol or Cardiff. The use of emails and phone conferencing have made it much easier over the years and with Google Maps / Streetview I can even get a basic understanding of a site from my desk when it comes to preliminary studies although I try not to rely on this information and just use it as an extra resource.0 -
I'm always amused when visitors to London say they can't stand the crowds, the noise, the pollution. That's because most of them get the Tube straight to the West End with all the other tourists to shuffle along Oxford St, see the usual sights (Big Ben, St Pauls, galleries and museums etc) and never set foot in the wonderful parks or quieter areas with brilliant pubs and cafes etc. As people have mentioned here, London is eseentially a city made up of many smaller towns and villages. Very few people who live in London would ever go to the centre in their free time, they tend to head home to their area (Clapham, Greenwich, Highate or wherever) and hang out round there. The people you see in central London at weekends are by and lagre visitors I would guess.
As has been mentioned, I love London for the variety of things to see and do, the variety of people you can meet and the sheer convenience. I've lived here for more than 10 years and there are still parts of London I haven't explored. I avoid the nasty elements of London - I cycle everywhere so never use the overpriced Tube or buses, I haven't got kids so don't need to worry about paying for a big house or education.
I was raised on the edge of a medium sized town with access to the countryside about 10 mins walk away. I had a good upbringing but I can't say I miss living in suburbia in a medium sized, average town, even for the endless greenery nearby. Give me London any day. Every weekend I do 50-60 mile bike rides through Kent in the North and South Downs with its beautiful greenery and open vistas, with a couple of different cycling clubs, that gets me out and about, and on a bike, escaping the traffic is pretty easy.
I think the only thing that would get me out of London was if I had kids and needed to move somewhere I could afford a larger house. There is no way I would want to live in Kent but travel by overpriced train to work in central London everyday. I love that I am in a small 2 bed flat (I don't need space, I only ever eat, sleep and watch telly at home anyway) with large garden, about 6 miles bike ride from work.Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
carbonfiend wrote:it also depends on your lfestyle, I have 3 young boys, 3,5,8. They need constant stimulation and the activities where I live they are second to none. Got grandparents in Bolton & High Wycombe and everytime we visit both of these areas have no where near as many pastimes for kids as the inner city does.
e.g During the summer holidays the council here orgainsed 'clubs' for kids to do all free of charge. My lad did climbing etc at an outdoor centre in caning town, 3 days of football at West Hams ground and learning circus tricks at Statford arts centre. Got swimming/leisure centre 5 mins from me and kids swim free, got 4 skate/BMX parks all with 20 mins and 6+ parks with climbing activity stuff, in fact one is jst behind my house.
Can do pretty much all that in my area (except the West Ham ground part obviously ) plus in my home town a 20 minute walk will see you at the foot of several 2,000' + hills. As a teenager I was never bored as I could walk to the river / canal and go fishing all day or just spend a day out in the woods or hills playing with friends on top of the usual sports clubs etc. My own 13 year old daughter is very rarely home as she'll be out on her horse that we keep 10 minutes from the house or at athletics club and my 7 year old is always at some sort of dancing or performing arts group. 0 -
Pross - I'm not saying it's exclusive to London (unless you want to work in finance obviously), but the draw is there for many people.0
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I avoid the nasty elements of London - I cycle everywhere so never use the overpriced Tube or buses, I haven't got kids so don't need to worry about paying for a big house or education.
This is a comment I hear a lot from Londoners and it suprises me a lot. What is the maximum daily cost for a travelcard in London? Isn't it about £7.50 for Zone 6? For that you can get to within a short walk of pretty much any part of the city either by bus or tube which seems like good value to me especially given the prices of parking and the congestion charge. The overcrowding is another issue but really it's a sign of just how good the transport system is! I think it takes using the public transport system in other parts of the UK to appreciate just what you have in London.0 -
I totally get the pov that unless you're well paid wtf would you want to live in London. You might for cultural / family reasons for sure, but there are good arguments against it.
As others have said, career ops are here that don't exist anywhere else in the UK.
It's also got a greater range of everything else (except cheap nice housing)0 -
Pross wrote:I avoid the nasty elements of London - I cycle everywhere so never use the overpriced Tube or buses, I haven't got kids so don't need to worry about paying for a big house or education.
This is a comment I hear a lot from Londoners and it suprises me a lot. What is the maximum daily cost for a travelcard in London? Isn't it about £7.50 for Zone 6? For that you can get to within a short walk of pretty much any part of the city either by bus or tube which seems like good value to me especially given the prices of parking and the congestion charge. The overcrowding is another issue but really it's a sign of just how good the transport system is! I think it takes using the public transport system in other parts of the UK to appreciate just what you have in London.
I suppose it's just that usually I don't want a travelcard, I am literally just going to and from where a friend lives or something. London's underground is one of the most expensive systems in the world. I lived in Osaka, Japan for a few years and the cheapest journeys were about 50p. Admittedly it's gone up to about £1 now but in London the cheapest zone 1 fare is something like £4 without an Oyster card. With an Oyster it drops to a couple of quid I think (I don't really know as I barely ever use PT) but you didn't have to sign up for the Osaka or Tokyo equivalent to Oyster (called suica or melon in Tokyo I think) to get the cheapest fares. I think pretty much all Tube systems across the world - NY, Frankfurt, Paris etc are all much cheaper than the good old Tube. The system in Osaka never broke down, the trains were very long, wide and fully air conditioned. In NY the trains run 24 hours and they have express trains underground. In London entire lines regularly just cease working for whatever reason, if that happened in Tokyo it would make front page national news!
Another thing is the dramatic fares increases we've seen, when I 1st moved to London, the cheapest bus fare was something like 40p, now it's over £1 with Oyster or over £2 without I think. Also they have introduced stealth increases, a few years ago they abolished the weekend travelcard, so now if you want a travelcard for both days you need to buy 2 day cards at vastly more money. They have also just done away with the zone 2-6 travelcard, forcing people to pay for zone 1 travel even if they don't need it.
I suppose we're just paying for decades of disinvestment in PT and more recently the PPP Metronet/Tubelines debacle which was forced through by Tony Blair and collapsed after a matter of a couple of years with billions of pounds of debt (whilst its senior managament managed to pay themselves chunky bonuses).Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
I got back from there yesterday. Stayed with friends in the Surrey Hills and got the train/tube to where we wanted to go. Wouldn't like to ride my bike in that part of the world as there were some lunatic drivers on the narrow lanes... Shame as some of the roads were really nice and their house was on a MONSTER of a steep climb.
I actually said to my wife as we got clear of the M25 "How anyone can live there (meaning London, not Surrey) is beyond me!"
That said, I like to visit...0 -
wildmoustache wrote:I totally get the pov that unless you're well paid wtf would you want to live in London. You might for cultural / family reasons for sure, but there are good arguments against it.
As others have said, career ops are here that don't exist anywhere else in the UK.
It's also got a greater range of everything else (except cheap nice housing)
But London is only expensive if you want it to be. Accommodation is expensive if you want to live somewhere flash but IME people are too willing to rule out areas they don't even know. See the above comments about SE London. People write off an entire quarter of London and wouldn't go there. In fact parts of it are lovely and rents and house prices are a lot lower than elsewhere and they are perfectly accessible by over land trains, buses and bike.
Food - supermarkets in London are generally the same price as those outside.
Going out - Of course it's easy to go to expensive places in London, but if you're short of cash you don't have to. There are loads of Wetherspoons, Sam Smiths pubs and cheaper local haunts
Transport - Just bike everywhere, it's free
The thing is about London the option is there to make it expensive if you want it to be, whereas that option doesn't exist in your average, medium sized town, but it doesn't have to be that bad if you shop around.Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
£5/6/7 a day is far bit. The satisfaction from cycling / walking and not paying it and being healthier is great.
The way some of the PT has been run is (another) great rip-off of taxpayers, but that is another story.0 -
@headhunter - totally agree on non-accomodation costs of living. One of the best value things about London is eating out. Which is generally better and cheaper than the rest of the country.
accomodation is a killer though I agree there are nice areas that are much better value, but the fact remains it's way more expensive to get a nice family home, on a nice street, near a nice school etc. etc. in London than in most of the country.0 -
wildmoustache wrote:@headhunter - totally agree on non-accomodation costs of living. One of the best value things about London is eating out. Which is generally better and cheaper than the rest of the country.
accomodation is a killer though I agree there are nice areas that are much better value, but the fact remains it's way more expensive to get a nice family home, on a nice street, near a nice school etc. etc. in London than in most of the country.
Yes when schooling and kids come into it, unless you are paid very, very well, it's time to leave London. But until then I love it...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
NapoleonD wrote:I got back from there yesterday. Stayed with friends in the Surrey Hills and got the train/tube to where we wanted to go. Wouldn't like to ride my bike in that part of the world as there were some lunatic drivers on the narrow lanes... Shame as some of the roads were really nice and their house was on a MONSTER of a steep climb.
I actually said to my wife as we got clear of the M25 "How anyone can live there (meaning London, not Surrey) is beyond me!"
That said, I like to visit...
I've ridden all over the UK over the past 10 years and IME drivers in London are generally (now) better towards cyclists than in other cities. Reason is there are more cyclists on the roads here than elsewhere. Outside London it can be a bit worse but again IME no worse than elsewhere in the country - though Surrey does have the most cars of any county in the UK ...0 -
Headhuunter wrote:oscarbudgie wrote:I grew up in the sticks (Lincolnshire) and have lived in London 20 years. Nice house in nice suburb, near to Epping Forest / Essex lanes etc but tbh I'm just fed up with the place now and can't wait to get out. Expensive, crowded, noisy, dirty - and thats the good bits. The mere thought of some of those real shitholes in (especially) SE London makes me shiver.
Try comparing Greenwich, Dulwich and Blackheath in SE London with bits of Harringay, Hackney, Holloway, bits of Tottenham in your precious north London.... Now THAT'S something to shudder at!
+1 His clearly never visited any of the above !0 -
wildmoustache wrote:NapoleonD wrote:I got back from there yesterday. Stayed with friends in the Surrey Hills and got the train/tube to where we wanted to go. Wouldn't like to ride my bike in that part of the world as there were some lunatic drivers on the narrow lanes... Shame as some of the roads were really nice and their house was on a MONSTER of a steep climb.
I actually said to my wife as we got clear of the M25 "How anyone can live there (meaning London, not Surrey) is beyond me!"
That said, I like to visit...
I've ridden all over the UK over the past 10 years and IME drivers in London are generally (now) better towards cyclists than in other cities. Reason is there are more cyclists on the roads here than elsewhere. Outside London it can be a bit worse but again IME no worse than elsewhere in the country - though Surrey does have the most cars of any county in the UK ...
I was talking Surrey lanes rather than the city centre... Appeared far worse than up in t' peaks...0 -
Epping Forest ... hmmm... I'll resist the temptation. Each to their own. If you like that whole Liverpool St. on a Friday night atmosphere ... not my thing.
Headhunter is right, Blackheath and Dulwich ... very nice
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wildmoustache wrote:Epping Forest ... hmmm... I'll resist the temptation. Each to their own. If you like that whole Liverpool St. on a Friday night atmosphere ... not my thing.
Headhunter is right, Blackheath and Dulwich ... very nice
A little less SE, a little more SW please... 0 -
Pross wrote:I avoid the nasty elements of London - I cycle everywhere so never use the overpriced Tube or buses, I haven't got kids so don't need to worry about paying for a big house or education.
This is a comment I hear a lot from Londoners and it suprises me a lot. What is the maximum daily cost for a travelcard in London? Isn't it about £7.50 for Zone 6? For that you can get to within a short walk of pretty much any part of the city either by bus or tube which seems like good value to me especially given the prices of parking and the congestion charge. The overcrowding is another issue but really it's a sign of just how good the transport system is! I think it takes using the public transport system in other parts of the UK to appreciate just what you have in London.
Off peak yes it is, off peak is no good for those commuting to work really. That ticket to travel before 9.30am is £14.80 :shock: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx if Im reading that correctly. I use an Alfa specialist to service my car and its 3 stops on the underground from work, I walked after dropping my car off after being told a return journey would be the princely sum of £6.00, according to the TFL site my journey would take 7 mins, according to the AA route planner its 3 miles and you have to stand up during peak time as its so packed. I dont see that as good value really.0 -
Yes, I'm in the SW ... just tipping the lid to the guys over in the east!
I also like parts of the North .. Victoria Park ... Hampstead, Camden (in a way), Crouch End, Muswell Hill ...0 -
wildmoustache wrote:Yes, I'm in the SW ... just tipping the lid to the guys over in the east!
I also like parts of the North .. Victoria Park ... Hampstead, Camden (in a way), Crouch End, Muswell Hill ...
Yes, there are good bits and bad bits all over London, it just annoys me a bit when people write of the entire south eastern quarter of the city as a place that makes them shiver when they truly cannot even have been there or they would know that just like other parts of London the SE has it's hot spots and its not spots....Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
£14.80 is starting to get pricey but when you think that it is £12.00 per day parking in the nearest MSCP to my office it doesn't seem so bad, plus I thought the Oyster card allows you to get the fair at the cheaper rate but may have misread that. I was back and forward on the Picadilly line from Hounslow at the weekend and the biggest problem was foreign tourists with cases everywhere including on the priority seating :evil: I do like the parks in London (never been to Richmond but the ones in the centre really are quite a surprise amongst the bustle of the city. Never thought there could be so many Pret's in such a small place as the City of London either! Took ages to find a Greggs and when we did it was closed for refurbishment, don't know how city folk survive without the vitals in life such as a Greggs corned beef pasty
I'd have to say from my stay at the Royal Free that my impression of Hampstead was far from any sort of village I've seen although I never got a chance to stroll up to the heath (and hadn't even realised how close I was to it). What's the place with the canals up near Lords? That looks quite pleasant.0 -
Pross wrote:What's the place with the canals up near Lords? That looks quite pleasant.
Regents Park?0 -
Nah, I've got Little Venice in my head but not sure if it's right. I remember going past it lots of canal boats tied up and (I think) a street market? :?0
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two types of people live in London - the needy or the greedy or possibly those to stupid to see what an ugly toilet it is.
News flash if your from London no one else in the UK cares one bit about your thoughts or opinions, so why does the media constantly ram it down our throats.
I lived in Sydney a few years back on the North Shore near Mosman and Balmoral Beach and that was just about bearable, and London is a world away from that.
Suckers0 -
Pross wrote:I'd have to say from my stay at the Royal Free that my impression of Hampstead was far from any sort of village I've seen although I never got a chance to stroll up to the heath (and hadn't even realised how close I was to it). What's the place with the canals up near Lords? That looks quite pleasant.
To make an area of London into a village takes imagination and some commitment. My wife and I agree on this. When she lived in Bromley she told me she had a bakery, a newsagent, a bike shop and waitrose, and her friends' houses - and she pretended the rest didn;t exist. You build up the relationships you want, and pootle around as if in a country village. I did the same when I lived in Brixton. but you do need a good community spirit and some decent places to visit/ spend time or it doesn;t work. I know this as I live in Welling which actually used to be a village about 150 years ago. You wouldn;t know it now.
so London = village requires imagination and a little bit of delusion, but it can be achieved.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
surreyxc wrote:two types of people live in London - the needy or the greedy or possibly those to stupid to see what an ugly toilet it is.
That's three
There must be four as I'm none of the above. after all many people live in London becasue they were born there.
I live in London becasue I like it here.
I'm guessing you're just a little bit self obsessed and unable to see others' points of view. that's a shameHello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:Pross wrote:I'd have to say from my stay at the Royal Free that my impression of Hampstead was far from any sort of village I've seen although I never got a chance to stroll up to the heath (and hadn't even realised how close I was to it). What's the place with the canals up near Lords? That looks quite pleasant.
To make an area of London into a village takes imagination and some commitment. My wife and I agree on this. When she lived in Bromley she told me she had a bakery, a newsagent, a bike shop and waitrose, and her friends' houses - and she pretended the rest didn;t exist. You build up the relationships you want, and pootle around as if in a country village. I did the same when I lived in Brixton. but you do need a good community spirit and some decent places to visit/ spend time or it doesn;t work. I know this as I live in Welling which actually used to be a village about 150 years ago. You wouldn;t know it now.
so London = village requires imagination and a little bit of delusion, but it can be achieved.
I think the village idea comes from the concept that London is not like most UK towns and cities, ie. 1 massive community/town with a town centre which everyone goes to for their shopping and work and then suburbs where everyone lives. The centre of London is largely occupied by tourists and people who work there during the week, but otherwise people spend the leisure time in their local hubs. Places like Clapham, Blackheath, Greenwich, Islington all have their own "town centres" with restaurantsm, bars, cafes, supermarkets and offices and are essentially their own, self contained communities. I think the word village is simply one that has been overused by estate agents, but it has its roots in the truth.Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:wildmoustache wrote:Yes, I'm in the SW ... just tipping the lid to the guys over in the east!
I also like parts of the North .. Victoria Park ... Hampstead, Camden (in a way), Crouch End, Muswell Hill ...
Yes, there are good bits and bad bits all over London, it just annoys me a bit when people write of the entire south eastern quarter of the city as a place that makes them shiver when they truly cannot even have been there or they would know that just like other parts of London the SE has it's hot spots and its not spots....
That's OK, let's keep myth going and so leave the provincials in their North/Southwest London ghettoes.0
