Londoners?

carbonfiend

But if you want to get out of London to the things it doesn't have (countryside, friends that don't live in London) you have a nightmare in traffic getting out. You must spend the first hour of every ride fighting traffic to get to the fun bits?

Epping forest is 10 mins from my house M25/M11/North circular all within 5-10mins.

London and the SE has an infinitley better climate than anywhere else - we actually have a summer down here which most importantly brings out the girls

rick_chasey

redddraggon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Career wise - London is often where it happens, particularly in professional services.

I sort of get that but outside of financial services and the associate professions such as lawyers it's not really the case. .

Disagree.

I agree with Pross.

Most of the places I'd want to end up are in the countryside, and then grouped around Oxbridge/Russel group universities.

You both do engineering stuff right?

Monty Dog

I've lived in the southeast since 1988 - having spent the my first 20-odd years in Glasgow I'm not inclined to head back there despite being offered the chance to do so.
Yes the traffic can be awful at times and people rude and aggressive - but that's the UK in general IME.
I live on the very periphery of the greater London conurbation - less than a mile in one direction and I'm into open countryside and some of the best cycling country in the South. There's also a very active racing scene here - during summer I could race every day of the week or find a group training ride.
If I turn left out my front door, I can be in central London in an hour..but my work is only a 5 mile ride or run away.
I can easily nip over to France or Belgium for a weekend sportive - its quicker than heading to Wales or the north, the entry will be cheaper and the riding better quality.
Finally, the weather - statistically we get at least 1 month extra of 'summer' i.e. average daytime temp of 20 degrees.

iainf72

)

carbonfiend wrote:

But if you want to get out of London to the things it doesn't have (countryside, friends that don't live in London) you have a nightmare in traffic getting out. You must spend the first hour of every ride fighting traffic to get to the fun bits?

Depends where you live in London. I live in zone 4 - So 30 minutes on a train to the City (which BTW, tends to be very clean and the people polite - not many tourists ) but can be in the "country" in 15 minutes.

I also hate driving and you really don't need to drive in London.

carbonfiend

true you dont really need to drive but one problem I will admit that London has is public transport. Tubes are ok depending what time and what line u travel but buses :? and the overground :shock: I for one wouldnt take the north London line through Dalston/Hackney/Homerton after 7pm

Pross

carbonfiend wrote:

true you dont really need to drive but one problem I will admit that London has is public transport. Tubes are ok depending what time and what line u travel but buses :? and the overground :shock: I for one wouldnt take the north London line through Dalston/Hackney/Homerton after 7pm

I'd say public transport is the one big plus point and that many Londoners perhaps don't appreciate what they have. Look at much heralded light rail / tram services in other cities that actually have them and the routes are extremely limited. The system gets crowded IME but that's because it is relatively reliable and cheap plus the shear numbers of people needing to move around in a small space.

carbonfiend

you seriously wanna avoid buses in London especially if you plan to arrive at your destination the same day you started. Dockland light railway is cool.

redddraggon

Rick Chasey wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Career wise - London is often where it happens, particularly in professional services.

I sort of get that but outside of financial services and the associate professions such as lawyers it's not really the case. .

Disagree.

I agree with Pross.

Most of the places I'd want to end up are in the countryside, and then grouped around Oxbridge/Russel group universities.

You both do engineering stuff right?

Yes. Aviation or electroceramics is my goal.

deptfordmarmoset

One of the things that vastly improves the quality of my life in SE London is something I've found myself doing more and more around here: talking to strangers. It probably passes as a bit eccentric here but I think it comes from the feeling that I live here, this is my home, I'll talk to who I like - and if you don't want to talk back, that's because you don't live here in the same way that I do. I also have lots of red-light chats with other cyclists.

So today, because I couldn't be bothered to mend a puncture for a one-mile journey, I walked down to a nearby supermarket along the River Ravensbourne and chatted to 3 people I knew and 3 people I didn't on the way there and back, plus of course the usual pleasantries with the supermarket cashier. As a little bonus, of the 3 people I didn't know, who were watching birds as they walked, one was a double bass player (which was my instrument), the other was French and knew what a bergeronnette des ruisseaux (grey wagtail) was, and when I asked them if they'd seen any kingfishers (they come down the creek particularly when the tide is out) one appeared on the other side of the little river.

So maybe it's a little odd, but talking to strangers and knowing where the animals go, makes this part of London feel like our London. Kingfishers 10 minutes from London Bridge? I love that.

electric_blue

Pross wrote:

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Weejie54 wrote:

Maybe it's because.....

+1, I was born ere guvna 8)

Yeah, but you are allowed to leave you know (just remember it's not as noisy in other places so you can turn the volume down on your voice - most Londoners don't appear to realise this)

don't encourage them - there's too many Londoners moving to the west-country already, pushing house prices up, and filling the otherwise pleasent surroundings with aggresive comically racist cockerny banter!!


Seriously though - London knocks shit out of anywhere else. I'd get bored after 5 minutes in any other city. And if you want to live in a village and still be in London - well London's full of villages - from Brixton to Hampstead!

electric_blue

carbonfiend wrote:

But if you want to get out of London to the things it doesn't have (countryside, friends that don't live in London) you have a nightmare in traffic getting out. You must spend the first hour of every ride fighting traffic to get to the fun bits?

Epping forest is 10 mins from my house M25/M11/North circular all within 5-10mins.

London and the SE has an infinitley better climate than anywhere else - we actually have a summer down here which most importantly brings out the girls

Where I live on the edge of London it takes 20 minutes to get out into the Kent countryside, even quicker if I jump on a train for two stops.

rick_chasey

redddraggon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Career wise - London is often where it happens, particularly in professional services.

I sort of get that but outside of financial services and the associate professions such as lawyers it's not really the case. .

Disagree.

I agree with Pross.

Most of the places I'd want to end up are in the countryside, and then grouped around Oxbridge/Russel group universities.

You both do engineering stuff right?

Yes. Aviation or electroceramics is my goal.

I'd suggest that engineering is not typical.

Gary Marshall

interesting topic as i have just moved down to work in the city after spending most of my career in the north (leeds mainly). have rented a place near saffron walden to be near the countryside for cycling but at moment heading back to york at the weekend.

not actually done much cycling yet in the south as we have just had a baby too, so it's been a busy old year.t

the city is certainly a stimulating place to work but the 5.30 am start is taking some getting used to!

electric_blue

Gary Marshall wrote:

interesting topic as i have just moved down to work in the city after spending most of my career in the north (leeds mainly). have rented a place near saffron walden to be near the countryside for cycling but at moment heading back to york at the weekend.

not actually done much cycling yet in the south as we have just had a baby too, so it's been a busy old year.t

the city is certainly a stimulating place to work but the 5.30 am start is taking some getting used to!

Bloody hell!! :shock:

I generally try to live closer to work than that - weekend cycling in the country is usually only a few train stops away - but getting up at 5.30 am is against my religion.

carbonfiend

into cycling, living in saffron walden and work in the city, give it 6 months before you're Rapha's customer of the month

Stewie Griffin

Gary Marshall wrote:

interesting topic as i have just moved down to work in the city after spending most of my career in the north (leeds mainly). have rented a place near saffron walden to be near the countryside for cycling but at moment heading back to york at the weekend.

not actually done much cycling yet in the south as we have just had a baby too, so it's been a busy old year.t

the city is certainly a stimulating place to work but the 5.30 am start is taking some getting used to!

Saffron Waldon IS the countryside, its got to be 40 miles away from London. I guess thats why the 5.30 start takes some getting used to. I could never commute that far without losing my marbles very quickly. 8 miles to and from work thanks very much, 45 mins a day in the car is more than enough and I really like my car, I have had it for nearly 9 years and its got less than 48,000 miles on it, yours will end up with more miles than the Millennium Falcon. I have just realised that Im not actually part of the rat race I used to play golf every weekend with friends out in Reading, if I stayed overnight on Saturday I would have to leave them in the afternoon or at night as the M4 into London was chocka block in the evening. Motorway traffic jams are no way to spend your Sunday evenings.

rick_chasey

electric_blue wrote:

Gary Marshall wrote:

interesting topic as i have just moved down to work in the city after spending most of my career in the north (leeds mainly). have rented a place near saffron walden to be near the countryside for cycling but at moment heading back to york at the weekend.

not actually done much cycling yet in the south as we have just had a baby too, so it's been a busy old year.t

the city is certainly a stimulating place to work but the 5.30 am start is taking some getting used to!

Bloody hell!! :shock:

I generally try to live closer to work than that - weekend cycling in the country is usually only a few train stops away - but getting up at 5.30 am is against my religion.

If your job revolves around being involved in the financial markets, it's always an early start, regardless of where you live...

Stone Glider

I lived in London for fifteen years from 1970 and still have friends we visit in the Smoke. It does strike me as crowded and dirty but I have changed not London. It was fine when I lived there and judging from some of the comments has changed not a lot.

The point about a series of villages rings true as well, I lived in Blackheath/Charlton, Fulham, Surbiton, Croydon and Selsdon. We did tend to get moved along a bit Each had their own character, although Croydon was more like a town with quite an insular view. Plenty of my neighbours had nothing to do with "up north". London is best enjoyed when young or rich or both.

electric_blue

Rick Chasey wrote:

electric_blue wrote:

Gary Marshall wrote:

interesting topic as i have just moved down to work in the city after spending most of my career in the north (leeds mainly). have rented a place near saffron walden to be near the countryside for cycling but at moment heading back to york at the weekend.

not actually done much cycling yet in the south as we have just had a baby too, so it's been a busy old year.t

the city is certainly a stimulating place to work but the 5.30 am start is taking some getting used to!

Bloody hell!! :shock:

I generally try to live closer to work than that - weekend cycling in the country is usually only a few train stops away - but getting up at 5.30 am is against my religion.

If your job revolves around being involved in the financial markets, it's always an early start, regardless of where you live...

I'm sure he could get up a bit later if he didn't have to commute 40 miles into London.

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'd suggest that engineering is not typical.

Or possibly the London centric careers (media/finance/marketing) are the ones which aren't typical? Most careers can be performed anywhere in the country without a significantly lower salary.

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'd suggest that engineering is not typical.

Or possibly the London centric careers (media/finance/marketing) are the ones which aren't typical? Most careers can be performed anywhere in the country without a significantly lower salary.

I guess so. I just see it like this: Say you work for a big firm, either national or international. The real senior positions in that firm will ultimately be in London, 90% of the time. Why work in say, PwC in leeds, when you can work in the HQ, where the bigger clients are based, in London?

if you are careerist - you want to be where it's at in terms of exposure to the biggest and best.

carbonfiend

I worked in music industry for 20 years, there was no way I could do what I did unless I was in London.

Gary Marshall

carbonfiend wrote:

into cycling, living in saffron walden and work in the city, give it 6 months before you're Rapha's customer of the month

assos actually

when i raced many years ago the star of the local chain gang in york was Pete Longbottom, a top rider and bloke, he always wore assos so i aspired to it, he was very sadly killed on his bike wearing all black kit - something rapha seem keen on, so i won't wear black kit and assos is expensive enough!!

Gary Marshall

Stewie Griffin wrote:

[
Saffron Waldon IS the countryside, its got to be 40 miles away from London. I guess thats why the 5.30 start takes some getting used to. I could never commute that far without losing my marbles very quickly. 8 miles to and from work thanks very much, 45 mins a day in the car is more than enough and I really like my car, I have had it for nearly 9 years and its got less than 48,000 miles on it, yours will end up with more miles than the Millennium Falcon. I have just realised that Im not actually part of the rat race I used to play golf every weekend with friends out in Reading, if I stayed overnight on Saturday I would have to leave them in the afternoon or at night as the M4 into London was chocka block in the evening. Motorway traffic jams are no way to spend your Sunday evenings.

well saffron walden might be the countryside unless you're used to living in the sticks outside of york like i am!

i get the train so i drive 5 minutes to the station , sleep/read on the train for an hour and walk to the office. it's not great but oddly 45 mins driving to do 8 miles would drive me madder, in that time i used to drive from York to Leeds 42 miles- mind you the car has done 150k!

Cafewanda

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Weejie54 wrote:

Maybe it's because.....

+1, I was born ere guvna 8)

Moi aussi!

Can't imagine living anywhere else in the UK. Despite the crowds and filth, there are some real gems and I can link up with unknown cycling people and go for rides .

redddraggon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'd suggest that engineering is not typical.

Or possibly the London centric careers (media/finance/marketing) are the ones which aren't typical? Most careers can be performed anywhere in the country without a significantly lower salary.

I guess so. I just see it like this: Say you work for a big firm, either national or international. The real senior positions in that firm will ultimately be in London, 90% of the time. Why work in say, PwC in leeds, when you can work in the HQ, where the bigger clients are based, in London?

if you are careerist - you want to be where it's at in terms of exposure to the biggest and best.

Engineering is definitely typical. It's everywhere. Airbus is one of the biggest employers in my local area, and they tend to employ engineers rather than Bankers .

I can understand senior management being based in London.

rick_chasey

redddraggon wrote:

Engineering is definitely typical. It's everywhere. Airbus is one of the biggest employers in my local area, and they tend to employ engineers rather than Bankers .

I can understand senior management being based in London.

I'm suggesting Engineering is quite atpyical in the sense that it less about doing business, and more about making/desiging stuff. They don't provide intangible services for another company. It makes sense if you are, to be located reasonably near to your clients.

For a bit of context:

Over the past twenty years, the services sector has grown much faster than the UK economy overall. By the end of last year, government figures on the sector1 show that private sector services accounted for over 55 per cent of all British jobs. In recent times, the volume of services the UK exports has grown annually by an average of 6.7 per cent and services now represents over a third of UK total export values.

Of those jobs included in the 'private sector services', the vast majority are jobs that, while are done elsewhere ,you associate with being done mostly in London. Like I said, if you audit firms, why audit some mickey mouse yorkshire firm in Leeds when you could be auditing Sainsburys, or Unilever in London?

The career prospects in London are absolutely one of the biggest draws - and the culture etc follows the people, rather than the other way around.

No-one in my office grew up in London - we all moved into London because of the work opportunities.

bompington

Let's just face it, most of our money has to pass through the hands of either the government, or London based companies, at some point.

It follows that if you're that way inclined, London is the best place to be to dip your hand in and help yourself.

More seriously, I'm not so sure about the arguments that service-sector jobs have to be geographically close to their clients - obviously some do, but is it really impossible in the 21st century to communicate & transfer information at a distance? (if you think the answer to that question is "yes", please feel free to post your reasons from anywhere in the world on this internet forum)
Even though it may well be that there are advantages in concentrating everything in one place, the consequences of this hyper-urbanisation aren't pretty to think about, because presumably the logical conclusion is that everybody should work in London?

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

More seriously, I'm not so sure about the arguments that service-sector jobs have to be geographically close to their clients - obviously some do, but is it really impossible in the 21st century to communicate & transfer information at a distance? (if you think the answer to that question is "yes", please feel free to post your reasons from anywhere in the world on this internet forum)

It's much easier to do work face to face - it just makes sense. Why go with a firm you can't meet face-to-face when you could go with one who does? You have to meet people to work, and everyone benefits, an industry benefits, if it's geographically close to one another.

Often in professioal services you actually have to sit in their office to get access to otherwise sensitive information, interview people etc etc. It's easier and more efficient to do it in person.

bompington wrote:

Even though it may well be that there are advantages in concentrating everything in one place, the consequences of this hyper-urbanisation aren't pretty to think about, because presumably the logical conclusion is that everybody should work in London?

For every grinder there's got to be a monkey

I guess the draw I'm refering to the draw for those who are considered 'highly skilled'. Careerists - which not everyone is - not by a long shot.

Headhuunter

Gazzaputt wrote:

hells wrote:

. I do not like London but then I think I have a bit of a warped view as I moved to Lewisham

Jesus if I lived in Lewisham it'd put me off London for life.

Inner city London is grim and the suburbs aren't much better. Central London is ok but overpriced for everything.

I live on the edge of London and leafy Kent lanes are about 15 minute ride away.

Dream is to move to a leafy Kent village

There are some beautiful parts of Lewisham borough. Try Blackheath, beats Hampstead etc hands down. Huge open green space, huge Victorian houses, good bars and restaurants in the village and yet about 20 mins train from the west end...