the Cyclo cross racing post

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  • BeaconRuth
    BeaconRuth Posts: 2,086
    andyp wrote:
    The difference a pair of decent tubs makes in cyclocross has to be experienced to be believed. You get significantly more grip than clinchers and can run them at much lower pressures.
    I've been given a pair of original bright green Michelin Mud clinchers and they've already made a world of difference over the Vittoria Cross XM Pro tyres I started off with. I love them and I feel like a different rider when the terrain gets muddy. Do you think I'd see another significant improvement with tubs Andy? What are you calling 'decent tubs'? Griffos?

    Ruth
    http://www.rutheyles.co.uk/
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    I really rate the Michelin Muds, they're probably the best clincher out there for cross.

    Using tubs is just a whole level different though, you get more grip than clinchers and, seemingly, so much more grip when you're applying power that it feels like you're a better rider. It's partly to do with pressure, as you can run tubs so much lower than clinchers, but also because the tyre doesn't move as much on the rim (assuming you've glued it properly in the first place - I always use the Belgian method, i.e. glue and tape).

    I've been using Griffos this season and may, if I'm feeling flush, get a pair of Dugast Rhinos for the mud next season. I've a spare pair of tubular rims so will probably build another wheelset up for them so I've a choice of tubs on any given day.
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Did any other BR members do the Oxford race at Harcourt Hill yesterday (I know we have one or two Bedfordshire Road CC guys on here and their jerseys were certainly in evidence)? That was a really tough (and long) circuit, quite good fun in an odd sort of way; I managed to get over the deep ditch at the start of the woodland section without falling in each time! Quite a few churned-up bits composed of clay and mud that couldn't be ridden - good job there hadn't been any more rain. After getting back to HQ I must have scraped a good 3lb of mud and dead leaves off the bike, and still need to give it a proper wash. Oxonian CC did a good job of laying on the event and would definitely ride if they do any future races there.

    I hadn't raced since the disastrous snow & ice episode at Checkendon last month and the festive season didn't really work wonders for my training programme so was pleasantly surprised to roll in 37th out of 56 finishers, especially as it was a flattish course rather than one for the climbers.

    Completing the event also meant I secured my club's cyclo-cross trophy as club champion based on Wessex League points, which is the first real prize (I'm not counting the chocolate biscuits from the raffle at the South of England champs) I've ever won in 10 years of competitive cycling. Needless to say I'm rather chuffed!

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • Supernaut
    Supernaut Posts: 29
    BeaconRuth wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    The difference a pair of decent tubs makes in cyclocross has to be experienced to be believed. You get significantly more grip than clinchers and can run them at much lower pressures.
    I've been given a pair of original bright green Michelin Mud clinchers and they've already made a world of difference over the Vittoria Cross XM Pro tyres I started off with. I love them and I feel like a different rider when the terrain gets muddy. Do you think I'd see another significant improvement with tubs Andy? What are you calling 'decent tubs'? Griffos?

    Ruth

    The original green Muds are the best clinchers you can use, they're miles better than the black mk2 ones and have more grip than anything except a Rhino tubular. In fact a Rhino only has more grip because of the fact that you can (as Andy says) run at much lower pressure.
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Supernaut wrote:
    BeaconRuth wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    The difference a pair of decent tubs makes in cyclocross has to be experienced to be believed. You get significantly more grip than clinchers and can run them at much lower pressures.
    I've been given a pair of original bright green Michelin Mud clinchers and they've already made a world of difference over the Vittoria Cross XM Pro tyres I started off with. I love them and I feel like a different rider when the terrain gets muddy. Do you think I'd see another significant improvement with tubs Andy? What are you calling 'decent tubs'? Griffos?

    Ruth

    The original green Muds are the best clinchers you can use, they're miles better than the black mk2 ones and have more grip than anything except a Rhino tubular. In fact a Rhino only has more grip because of the fact that you can (as Andy says) run at much lower pressure.

    I believe there are moves afoot to nag Michelin into re-introducing the original green Muds - overheard a conversation to this effect at yesterday's race. Having said that, my 35mm Panaracers coped better than I expected on Sunday. Off-road they can be ridden at pretty low pressures, but this tends to make them prone to pinch punctures once you switch back to tarmac....as I found on the ride back to Oxford station yesterday! :(

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    I was racing there (BRCC) too David. Well done.

    In fact I think it may possibly have been you who overtook me on the last lap as I was scrapping all the mud/leaves out to enable my back wheel to turn round! I tried to catch up but the gap was too big.

    Did you have a puncture on your way home? I stopped to ask someone if they needed any help, and I think it was you.

    It was a tough course, and I ache/feel a bit battered and bruised today despite not falling off.
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    hammerite wrote:
    Did you have a puncture on your way home? I stopped to ask someone if they needed any help, and I think it was you.

    If it was just down the road from the HQ, that would've been me - many thanks for the offer of help, fortunately I had a spare tube and only a short ride back into the centre of Oxford. Glad the flat happened after the race rather than during!

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Yep, just down the hill from HQ. Glad you got back ok.
  • Harry B
    Harry B Posts: 1,239
    hammerite wrote:
    I was racing there (BRCC) too David. Well done.

    In fact I think it may possibly have been you who overtook me on the last lap as I was scrapping all the mud/leaves out to enable my back wheel to turn round! I tried to catch up but the gap was too big.

    Did you have a puncture on your way home? I stopped to ask someone if they needed any help, and I think it was you.

    It was a tough course, and I ache/feel a bit battered and bruised today despite not falling off.

    I was there as well. The mud was pretty sticky. I had to stop a number of times to get it off. I also punctured on the last lap but carried on and finished with the puncture. It was good fun and well organised but a tough course. Oh well that's the cyclocross season over for me. I'm racing at Hillingdon on Saturday instead :D
    www.justgiving.com/thetwodaves
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Harry B wrote:
    I was there as well. The mud was pretty sticky. I had to stop a number of times to get it off. I also punctured on the last lap but carried on and finished with the puncture. It was good fun and well organised but a tough course. Oh well that's the cyclocross season over for me. I'm racing at Hillingdon on Saturday instead :D

    I suspect they'd set out to make the course that little bit tougher as it was the league final. Not giving the London CX league final at Herne Hill a bash on Sunday then? ;)

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Came in a lowly 58th out of 70 finishers yesterday at Herne Hill. Good technical course, but as windy as anything on the flat grass section inside the velodrome itself! New tyres are now tried, & tested and get the thumbs-up (Nokian Ravagozzi, discontinued I think but doing the rounds as NOS on eBay). Good to see a few other steel bikes out there yesterday, too!

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • Croxted Avenger
    Croxted Avenger Posts: 837
    62nd myself :? - If you mess up your start at HH you're on a hiding to nothing! Last outing for a while for my 531 cross bike, may have bowed to the temptations of Ridley.
    \'You Come At the King,You Best Not Miss\'
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Croxted Avenger wrote:
    62nd myself :? - If you mess up your start at HH you're on a hiding to nothing! Last outing for a while for my 531 cross bike, may have bowed to the temptations of Ridley.

    Not being affiliated to the League I thought it best to be polite and lurk at the back on the start line whilst others got on with chasing points. Fun day out though, but my A-Z reading skills for getting between Clapham Junction and Herne Hill left a lot to be desired!

    531 cross bike? Was it the blue/celeste & white one? Nice old-school frame, that. Some bloke from Addiscombe CC was on exactly the same Fort steel frame as me but rode his to better effect - and his only had the bog-standard cromoly fork, not the carbon one mine has! :oops:

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • Croxted Avenger
    Croxted Avenger Posts: 837
    Yeah that was mine - Cambridge blue Graham Weigh 531c with white detailing. Its actually a good deal less tanky than modern alu cross frames but as I've bemoaned before on these pages the mud clearance at the back is rubbish...all of the HH races have been pretty dry and hard this year so no problem there....swampy Hillingdon is a different matter though! I'll say hello next time fella 8)
    \'You Come At the King,You Best Not Miss\'
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Croxted Avenger wrote:
    Yeah that was mine - Cambridge blue Graham Weigh 531c with white detailing. Its actually a good deal less tanky than modern alu cross frames but as I've bemoaned before on these pages the mud clearance at the back is rubbish...all of the HH races have been pretty dry and hard this year so no problem there....swampy Hillingdon is a different matter though! I'll say hello next time fella 8)

    I'll keep an eye out for you - no more cross for me until September/October now though! Clearance is always a pain on the older frames, built for a time when off-road tyres weren't quite as beefy as they are now - I used to have a 2nd-hand Edison frame in Columbus SL tubing which dated from the mid-80s [1], lovely bike but too much mud and dead leaves would bring it to a standstill. Plus (and to be fair to them Edison themselves owned up to this over the phone) it was built with a road fork crown by mistake rather than a CX/touring one which made front-end clearance around the brake area pretty lousy. :(

    David

    [1] Still got the original Modolo canti brakes that came with it though; still working well on my modern bike too!
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    DavidBelcher wrote:
    Came in a lowly 58th out of 70 finishers yesterday at Herne Hill. Good technical course, but as windy as anything on the flat grass section inside the velodrome itself! New tyres are now tried, & tested and get the thumbs-up (Nokian Ravagozzi, discontinued I think but doing the rounds as NOS on eBay). Good to see a few other steel bikes out there yesterday, too!

    Dry, wasn't it? I finished (in 26th) and discovered my bike didn't need cleaning. Result. :D

    I did manage to lose a cleat about half way through the race though. I got baulked on the uphill section over by the railway, and when dismounting couldn't get my left foot to disengage so twisted it hard, that must've loosened up the cleat as I struggled to get it to engage for the next lap, before it wouldn't engage at all (no surprise afterwards as the cleat had dropped off) after that.

    A nice race to finish the season off.
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    andyp wrote:
    Dry, wasn't it? I finished (in 26th) and discovered my bike didn't need cleaning. Result. :D

    I did manage to lose a cleat about half way through the race though. I got baulked on the uphill section over by the railway, and when dismounting couldn't get my left foot to disengage so twisted it hard, that must've loosened up the cleat as I struggled to get it to engage for the next lap, before it wouldn't engage at all (no surprise afterwards as the cleat had dropped off) after that.

    A nice race to finish the season off.

    After some of the mudbaths I've experienced this season, nice to finish on a clean bike and not have to wash it on arriving home :). BMX-style earth mounds on the flat grassy bit inside the track were good fun too!

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Before we know it, it'll be time to start planning next season - only just turned April and the Ulster and Notts & Derby leagues both have their draft events calendars online :shock:

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • Barkiesnake
    Barkiesnake Posts: 244
    Hi guys
    I'm looking to do my first Cyclocross season this year and wondered where is the best place to get training advice. My club coaches have been honest enough to admit that it's not their area and although i emailed BC asking if there were any CX coaches in my area i have had no response.
    "If you think you can, or if you think you can't, your right" Henry Ford
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Barkie, Seeing that you are in NW London probably your best bet would be to contact Josie Heffernan or Graham MacNamee (Mac), they work for British Cycling and are involved with coaching and organising the Central CX league. I would imagine that they'll be holding some CX training sessions towards the end of the summer/early autumn at somewhere like Hillingdon circuit.

    If they're not running any sessions they'll know of clubs local to you that are planning to offer some CX training.

    Also check out http://www.centralcxl.org.uk/ the club news section has some details of training sessions that went on during last season.

    It's my understanding that there might be a summer league of short/fast evening races locally so worth keeping an eye on.
  • Barkiesnake
    Barkiesnake Posts: 244
    Thanks Hammerite, Will check these out.
    "If you think you can, or if you think you can't, your right" Henry Ford
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Looks like most leagues' fixtures are now pretty much finalised on the BC website except Wessex and Central. Any Central Leaguers on BikeRadar have any info yet on what's likely to be going on when and where? Saturday morning work commitments aside I'm hoping to ride enough Central events to count towards an overall placing this season, assuming no fixture clashes with Wessex races.

    I collected a club trophy as best finisher in the Wessex League last season, although this was somewhat by default having ridden more events than my clubmates due to illnessess etc.; this season I'd like to win the trophy again, but "win it better" as Cloughie would have put it [1]. ;)

    David

    [1] Couldn't resist sneaking that one in. Guess who's been watching The Damned United again recently....
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    I think most of the dates for the Central league have been finalised, just not announced yet.

    I can tell you that my club are hosting a Central league race on Sunday 20th November in Bedford.
  • Surfr
    Surfr Posts: 243
    South Wales league appears to be all there, although there is nothing on their official website.

    Bit depressing thinking about 'cross and the schools aren't even broken up for Summer yet!
  • bigpikle
    bigpikle Posts: 1,690
    keep looking at the Central League site but still no publisjed dates, which is really frustrating as my work schedule means I have to plan trips a long way in advance :( Would be VERY helpful if they publish what they have ASAP, as they were similarly last minute last season as well...

    20th Nov is in the diary now though! I'll try and find out when the MK Bowl event is my club run.

    Edit: Team MK are organising the MK Bowl race on 5th Nov 8)
    Your Past is Not Your Potential...
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    I asked a question of someone in the know a couple of weeks ago, but then forgot to post the answer up on here! The Central CX league should begin weekend of 1/2 or 8/9 October with races every week up until 17/18 Dec.

    Unfortunately I can't remember the venue for each week, or whether each race is on the Saturday or Sunday. :oops:
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Hang on to your rear mech for this one though.... http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events ... ue-Round-6 :lol:
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Central league dates.....

    25th Sept - venue to be confirmed
    1st Oct - Team MK - MK Bowl
    9th Oct - Team Trisports - Hitchin
    16 Oct - Hemel Hempstead CC - Hemel Hempstead
    23 Oct - VC10 - Aston Clinton
    30 Oct - Archer CC - Hillingdon Cycle Circuit
    13 Nov - Icknield RC - Luton
    20 Nov - Beds Road CC - Kempston
    27 Nov - Didcot Phoenix CC - Reading
    11 Dec - Twickenham CC - Hillingdon Cycle Circuit
  • simon t
    simon t Posts: 132
    Barkiesnake wrote:
    Hi guys
    I'm looking to do my first Cyclocross season this year and wondered where is the best place to get training advice. My club coaches have been honest enough to admit that it's not their area and although i emailed BC asking if there were any CX coaches in my area i have had no response.

    If you go onto you tube you'll find a few training tip vids
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    hammerite wrote:
    Central league dates.....

    25th Sept - venue to be confirmed
    1st Oct - Team MK - MK Bowl
    9th Oct - Team Trisports - Hitchin
    16 Oct - Hemel Hempstead CC - Hemel Hempstead
    23 Oct - VC10 - Aston Clinton
    30 Oct - Archer CC - Hillingdon Cycle Circuit
    13 Nov - Icknield RC - Luton
    20 Nov - Beds Road CC - Kempston
    27 Nov - Didcot Phoenix CC - Reading
    11 Dec - Twickenham CC - Hillingdon Cycle Circuit

    Excellent. Look forward to doing a few of those this season, overlap with the Wessex League permitting. Apparently there is/was talk of a joint event in the Newbury area which would count towards both leagues. Not heard any more on that for a week or two though. Any idea on rough location (nearest big town would do) for the 25th Sept. race?

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal

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