the Cyclo cross racing post
Comments
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Agreed about RAF Halton, fantastic course and fantastic facilities. Really interesting course as well, if it had been wet as you say.... wow. That steep banking would have been fun!0
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Brilliant first round of the Central league today at RAF Halton. Great course with a few challenges, can't imagine how hard it would've been if it had been wet. Shame my fitness and horror first section of single track couldn't do the course justice but fun all the same.
I had an amazing time - tricky course, that bit of off camber would have been very interesting in the wet!
That drag up to the steps through the gravel felt like I had the brakes on!Insert bike here:0 -
hopefully without sounding like a whinge, but any idea how Eastern League manage to get the results together, printed out to view in HQ and published on website before I've had a chance to have a shower and get back to the car whereas the results from Halton are still provisional (and in places look a bit shonky) a couple of days later?
Certainly not suggesting I'd be any quicker or more reliable in doing them, and perhaps I've just been spoilt only having ridden Eastern before, but just seems such a gap between the two leagues who are doing the same thing :?0 -
hopefully without sounding like a whinge, but any idea how Eastern League manage to get the results together, printed out to view in HQ and published on website before I've had a chance to have a shower and get back to the car whereas the results from Halton are still provisional (and in places look a bit shonky) a couple of days later?
Certainly not suggesting I'd be any quicker or more reliable in doing them, and perhaps I've just been spoilt only having ridden Eastern before, but just seems such a gap between the two leagues who are doing the same thing :?
Eastern League have a clever system in place and are incredibly lucky to have a team with the technical know-how and the commitment in place to turn it around that quickly. Some other leagues (e.g. Wessex, WM, Western, have now achieved similar rapidity in turnaround by using chip timing systems, but if you want Central League to be at the same level, I suggest you get involved in volunteering your services, and airing your views at the AGM. Any league is only as good as the numbers/commitment of it's volunteers.
Having ridden a lot of leagues, I have to say that Central are far from the 'shonkiest' despite being the youngest...0 -
Jon - hopefully I was clear I was neither 'having a go' no suggesting I could do any better; more wondering if different leagues have to do different things, or if Eastern really are just head & shoulders above everyone.
trust me, the last thing anyone would need to speed things up would be my admin skills :oops:0 -
Jon - hopefully I was clear I was neither 'having a go' no suggesting I could do any better; more wondering if different leagues have to do different things, or if Eastern really are just head & shoulders above everyone.
trust me, the last thing anyone would need to speed things up would be my admin skills :oops:
Sorry Simon, I have re-read my post and I do come across a bit schoolmasterly :oops:
What I meant to say was that with human judges (often drafted in at last minute and little training) and paper based systems, this is what you're going to get. Eastern operate a collective of trained judges (superhuman
) who enter results into tablet devices, thus facilitating collection and processing of results that one man (evil genius Dave) can collate and process by the time the prizegiving takes place. I can't think of another way to do that, without using chip-timing, and obviously a number of leagues have gone down that road. You still have to wait until the chip-timing man has uploaded the results, and the systems are not foolproof (anyone remember South Eastern Regionals and collapsing gantry last year?) but by and large it works well. I expect Central will have this as a discussion point at their AGM.
There are downsides to the Eastern system too, 80 rider maximums being one.
Look on the bright side, I well remember my early years of cross when London League would spend 2 weeks producing the results, followed by a further 2 weeks of everyone emailing their preferred position and the results being finalised.0 -
no problem; and I know its not easy - we had a road race earlier in the year where even though I took a video at the finish line it still took three of us about 57 watches of it to work out who finished where.
just wait until the fun starts when we're all caked in mud!0 -
Even chip timing is no panacea; I've raced a number of events with chip timing where the results took several days to generate, followed by multiple iterations to get them right. I've also watched a chip-timed event where the organisers were unable to determine the podium finishers, and had to ask the competitors.
You also need to have some form of manual backup, because there's a very good chance that several chips won't work properly, and an outside chance that the entire system will die mid-race; if this happens, the competitors will still want a result.
There was discussion about chip timing at the last Central AGM; there are a number of quite different systems, all with their own pros and cons. Picking the right one is not a trivial decision, and someone has to store and maintain it. I'm sure it'll be coming sooner or later.
Frankly, I'm amazed the various results systems work as well as they do; if I tried to do the job I'm fairly confident it would end in disaster...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Even chip timing is no panacea; I've raced a number of events with chip timing where the results took several days to generate, followed by multiple iterations to get them right. I've also watched a chip-timed event where the organisers were unable to determine the podium finishers, and had to ask the competitors.
You also need to have some form of manual backup, because there's a very good chance that several chips won't work properly, and an outside chance that the entire system will die mid-race; if this happens, the competitors will still want a result.
There was discussion about chip timing at the last Central AGM; there are a number of quite different systems, all with their own pros and cons. Picking the right one is not a trivial decision, and someone has to store and maintain it. I'm sure it'll be coming sooner or later.
Frankly, I'm amazed the various results systems work as well as they do; if I tried to do the job I'm fairly confident it would end in disaster...
Indeed.
The route taken by Wessex, Western and West Mids is to use a third party chiptiming company, which takes out the storage and maintenance piece. There are still downsides, and everyone does paper back-up, though one does wonder how reliable the back up will be when the judges are expecting the chip system to work. We are seeing consistent same day results so far this season though.0 -
I don't know why other leagues don't ask the Eastern league if they can copy/buy/borrow their system as it's unbelievably good. They're so confident they don't even have provisional results, VamP will tell me if I'm wrong as he's had far more experience of it than me, but I've never heard of an error being made.
Even more impressive is that they use the same system for gridding and it is usually spot on, I've never had cause for complaint in when I've been called up.
I don't know how it works but I will be getting first hand knowledge of it in a few weeks when we run our promotion.0 -
From what I've heard, it requires experienced operators (ie the same people doing it every week, rather than volunteers provided by the promoting club). A field limit of 80 riders would also be an issue for many leagues (though maybe that's not a "hard" limit...)Pannier, 120rpm.0
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As with most things, it's the human factor. Eastern system needs trained judges and Dave. When Dave isn't around (Trophy weekends mainly) the whole process is notably less smooth.
The chip timing systems also seem to fall over more often with less experienced operators setting up.
As TGOTB says, there is no panacea.0 -
I race in the West Mids (WMCCL) and the chip timing providing by Black Sheep works really well. A few issues very early on when people picked up the wrong chip etc but all settled down now. Results normally up by the evening together with lap times etc
Also my club (Lichfield CCC) bough their own chips for timing at Curborough. Done away with the need for lots of scorers and results out in minutes. Has to be the way to go IMO0 -
Does it really do away with the need for scorers? What do you do if something goes wrong (which, sooner or later, it inevitably will)? I guess a couple of video cameras pointed at the finish line might provide enough info to figure out the results in a worst case scenario.Also my club (Lichfield CCC) bough their own chips for timing at Curborough. Done away with the need for lots of scorers and results out in minutes. Has to be the way to go IMO
I remember doing an electronically-timed TT at Hillingdon once; we were about 5 laps in when someone realised the timing system hadn't been started correctly. There was no manual backup, and they ended up having to call everyone in and re-run at half-distance.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Does it really do away with the need for scorers? What do you do if something goes wrong (which, sooner or later, it inevitably will)? I guess a couple of video cameras pointed at the finish line might provide enough info to figure out the results in a worst case scenario.Also my club (Lichfield CCC) bough their own chips for timing at Curborough. Done away with the need for lots of scorers and results out in minutes. Has to be the way to go IMO
I remember doing an electronically-timed TT at Hillingdon once; we were about 5 laps in when someone realised the timing system hadn't been started correctly. There was no manual backup, and they ended up having to call everyone in and re-run at half-distance.
Must have held a dozen races or so with no issues. There is someone checking to make sure it is logging laps OK-if it went wrong would have to improvise. TBH I am amazed how much easier it has made things. Now need less volunteers/marshals for events and has taken away the stress at the finish line. The only thing you really need to watch out for is "laps out" If that gets missed then its a manual correction. Competitors have been very happy as they get to see the print out before they leave and any issues quickly corrected0 -
As a racer in the Eastern League I'm really happy with the way they do it, although on a couple of occasions they have had to make an adjustment a few days later (dropping me down a place because someone was missed) but considering the efficiency that's not bad at all. I much prefer this system to relying on a chip, I did the Tour of Cambridgeshire this year and rode it with a friend, we stayed together for the whole ride until I sprinted away for the last mile, results came in and his time was 20+ mins faster than mine! I don't trust timing chips at all.
Anyway, Revolution Cross in Colchester this Sunday, looks like a long lap and the video posted on the Facebook page is not recommended for those with a weak stomach. It feels like ages since my last race at Basildon so it's like the season is starting again!0 -
I'm racing again on Sunday in Yorkshire Points round 4. Though I'm not naturally adept at cyclocross, I'm in good form at the moment and thus hoping to beat all the teenage girls - unlike last time. :oops: I hope it stays dry as I'm pretty shonky at bike-handling at the best of times.
I can't find the post above, but I recall there was one from one of the organisers of round 3 at Wakefield. If you're reading this, many thanks to you and your fellow organisers. It was a great day out!
In fact, a generic big thanks to all those who volunteer to put on any type of event.0 -
A tough course at the MK Bowl today for the Central League. More challenging technically during the warm up than the race when the dew was still making the grass very slick but dried out for the race. Had a couple of good battles and a sprint for the line that I won by half a wheel (for about 60th place probably).0
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A tough course at the MK Bowl today for the Central League. More challenging technically during the warm up than the race when the dew was still making the grass very slick but dried out for the race. Had a couple of good battles and a sprint for the line that I won by half a wheel (for about 60th place probably).
It would have been interesting in the rain! I had a decent race, midfield in the seniors. The guy that won our race was on another planet. Anyone know who it was? Black cannondale kit?0 -
A tough course at the MK Bowl today for the Central League. More challenging technically during the warm up than the race when the dew was still making the grass very slick but dried out for the race. Had a couple of good battles and a sprint for the line that I won by half a wheel (for about 60th place probably).
It would have been interesting in the rain! I had a decent race, midfield in the seniors. The guy that won our race was on another planet. Anyone know who it was? Black cannondale kit?
When he was lapping me for the 2nd time he was lapping the guy in about 10th and he was chatting to him like it was a recovery ride :shock:
Meanwhile I was blowing out my a*se. Was a good course but my lack of fitness was showing at the end. Back there in a couple of weeks and I can't see this good weather lasting so will be interesting with some rain.***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0 -
VC Revolution Cross in Colchester yesterday, although dry it was much more interesting than last year's course. I had a nightmare of a race but still just about enjoyed myself.
My other half definitely doesn't understand racing.... as I was coming to the line to start my last lap the leader was bearing down on a group of us to lap us and cut our race short. She was shouting at me to slow down so I could finish but we all pushed that little bit harder to have a nice little battle for the last lap!
Now I have 2 weeks to go until my next race so I will be replacing that front brake with something that's easier to set up. It would not toe in so I spent every hill with the fork bouncing and flexing all over the place which caused me to go a bit wide on every corner (sore hand from punching a tree!!).0 -
A tough course at the MK Bowl today for the Central League. More challenging technically during the warm up than the race when the dew was still making the grass very slick but dried out for the race. Had a couple of good battles and a sprint for the line that I won by half a wheel (for about 60th place probably).
It would have been interesting in the rain! I had a decent race, midfield in the seniors. The guy that won our race was on another planet. Anyone know who it was? Black cannondale kit?
When he was lapping me for the 2nd time he was lapping the guy in about 10th and he was chatting to him like it was a recovery ride :shock:
Meanwhile I was blowing out my a*se. Was a good course but my lack of fitness was showing at the end. Back there in a couple of weeks and I can't see this good weather lasting so will be interesting with some rain.
Epic course it was. 45 mins in I fell pretty hard, then got back on my bike, fell again, and realised that it wasn't a wash out, it was a front pinch flat. I limped home and looked at tubs on the internet all night.
Ribs flipping hurt today.Insert bike here:0 -
I have much work to do on this cyclocross malarkey as I was beaten by the entire junior women's field in my latest race (Yorkshire points #4)!
Despite this, I still sneaked into the 3rd quartile of the over 45s (which is an improvement from #3) didn't fall off or break my bike, raced in pleasant early Autumn sunshine on a broadly dry track and was back hours before the spousal curfew. All in all, a grand day out.0 -
Brain to me this morning: What should I wear? Assos or DHB shorts?
Eyes to brain: Oh look there are your Assos ones. Tidy.
So, now to test their crash repair policy......My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Looks like some proper cyclocross weather has finally kicked in, forecast for Basildon on Sunday says, today- rain, tomorrow-rain, before and during race-rain! I wonder what the shower/cleanup facilities are like at this new course
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Where are you looking, I'm seeing overcast but dry at my usual weather sites? It takes a fair bit of rain to create proper mud usually.0
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Metcheck, it's generally quite good generally. Although I wouldn't complain if it's a bit nicer this week, I'm just about getting over a cold that's wiped me out for two weeks.0
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Where are you looking, I'm seeing overcast but dry at my usual weather sites? It takes a fair bit of rain to create proper mud usually.
Definitely no mud at our race VamP, file treads all the way!0 -
Where are you looking, I'm seeing overcast but dry at my usual weather sites? It takes a fair bit of rain to create proper mud usually.
Definitely no mud at our race VamP, file treads all the way!
Well I wasn't sure, but now I'm definitely loading my mud wheels as well!0 -
Did you need your mud wheels in the end then VamP? It was a lovely day for it in Basildon, thankfully because that off camber would have been a nightmare in the rain! It seems they had a bit of a wet one further up the east coast though so I guess we were lucky!0
