Commonwealth Games TT
Comments
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hotoph88 wrote:
It would lovely to believe Millar "fessed up" and that other myth - "worked with the authorities" to combat doping. The facts are that the police raided his apartment found the empty phials. Had the Police not taken that action Millar would have continued with the deception. He had nowhere to go and after a long period of agressive interogation, the police cracked him. Afterwards he spoke about the support from his friends and in particular the telephone call from his special friend Lance Armstrong. I think a street-wise 6 year old could translate that broadcast.DaveyL wrote:Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*
No, Millar never named the team-mates he roomed with who, many years later, (after they had retired ?) he stated were using doping products. He didn't blow the whistle on his team until they had all had adequate time to move on in their lives and be out of harms way when he eventually did start to speak.
Millar has played the majority audience supremely.
Sorry, I stand corrected. Here was me thinking he confessed when confronted with the evidence, voluntarily admitted he doped to the Worlds TT win and was stripped of it.
I obviously have been living in a parallel universe and it appears that he actually denied doping when the police raided his appartment, was done for possession of epo vials indicating intention to dope at some unspecified point, and therefore kept his Worlds jersey because no-one could prove he cheated for that event.
Serious point - if you treat everyone who cheats in the same way, what is the incentive for those caught to confess, and try to make a difference if they genuinely want out of the system? Maybe it would be better if everyone who was caught just kept shtum, took their medicine so to speak and then came back again after their ban, as if nothing had happened. How does that help the sport move on?
It would be great to live in a black and white world where Millar is either a devil or a saint, but I'm sorry to tell you he's somewhere between the two.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Tom BB wrote:Neil Buckley wrote:Tom bb (or the other people) haven't you ever made a mistake??? If you think millar doesn't regret what he did or the efforts he has gone to educate people about doping, making himself a case study for british cycling or the stance his team takes on doping you really need to forget about cycling, I hate doping as much as the rest of you but if you think David Millar should be tarnished with the same brush as the rest of the doping tossers, you really need to find a new sport to be bitter about, the work he as put in for anti doping and education about it should be applauded and I personally congratulate him for his gold, top result and tops a great season for him, I wear my Garmin kit with pride
Yup made plenty of mistakes Neil......although cant think of many that are of the magnitude of cheating to win the world TT champs etc.....I agree that common sense would separate Millar from people such as Ricco etc but the fact is, he doped-he's a cheat. You seem to hold him in very high esteem....why not celebrate a non doper?
As for "I wear my Garmin kit with pride"- dont let freehub hear!......it does make you sound rather funny saying that
Tom I do celebrate a non doper, I think Fabian Cancellara is amazing I wish I could race my bike like him, people like Steve Cummings, the tester Andy Wilkinson, top people. I've only been around cycling 2 and a bit years, so yer i've missed the dirty years of cycling (god how would this forum looked then) but when people hold him the same light as Ricco, etc thats just being dramatic. David Millar and his team with JV has brought the sport the sport on ten fold on doping, thats why I like the team and the man himself, Roule Britanica has a good chapter about him. Its hard though, dopers should have the book thrown at them, but should be judged on their actions on return and judged case by case, i'd rather take things for what they are,it took him a while to get back up to winning, unlike some others, plus I still look at that escape in Barcellona in the 2009 tour in awe, plus I got my Garmin kit for nowt too!!
Congrats David!! Helmand Province is such a nice place.....0 -
I saw some of the early riders off and some didn't even have clip on bars. The one rider (not sure of the country but wearing an orangy yellow kit) was just sat up riding on the hoods. I think it's great that these countries get to take part but in keeping with the title of the 'friendly games' why not just say everyone has to ride a standard road bike? OK, it wouldn't bring any of these riders anywhere near contention but at least they would have an accurate comparison.0
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I saw lots of riders (both men and woman) riding regular bikes, regular kit and non-aero helmets etc..........hardly a level playing field really. Not that they would be competitive anyway, but still.......
As for the Millar debate, I think people have very short memories. Sure, he's a poster boy for the anti-dopting campaign now, but he kicked and screamed for months before he finally fessed up, once confronted with damning evidnce. It was never the Knight falling on his sword image many believe. His charm and charisma have been the difference.
That's not to say he doesn't deserve a second chance just like others - Ricco and Vino included.
Until they change the rules that is (which I would like to see BTW).0 -
pedro118118 wrote:I saw lots of riders (both men and woman) riding regular bikes, regular kit and non-aero helmets etc..........hardly a level playing field really. Not that they would be competitive anyway, but still.......
It's a cost thing for these smaller countries. Their riders may not even OWN a TT bike, they are so poor. The sheer cost of getting them to India and all the costs associated with being there for the Games can be a lot on it's own.
Add to that the extra cost of shipping an extra bike (if they own one) for a race they have no hope in is too much for some.
(I'm surprised they didn't bother with clip-on TT bars though).
I went to a World Cup race earlier this year and could only afford to take one bike for a RR and TT - but at least had clip-on bars.0 -
Question to some of the regulars here. Why did they have all riders heading off with only a 1min gap. Surely on such a straight course that gives quite an incentive (& advantage) to the later riders? My understanding was that some TT's start with riders 1min apart but for the anticipated top 10/20 the time difference goes up to 2min to avoid this issue.0
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I think I read in relation to that time in Millar's life (when he got caught) that he was in a bit of mental turmoil, even depression about the fact that he was cheating, and was almost willing himself to get caught. Did he not put EPO phials, or a syringe on his mantelpiece in full view of anyone who visited him, basically knowing that he would easily be caught if the authorities came calling?
Personally I think that there are many types of 'cheat' and that some are more forgiveable than others - Millar obviously being at that end of the spectrum.0 -
Most people tipped Durbridge for the win at CN apart from me, I had Millar as nailed on, Dowsett second, Hutchinson 4, i thought Sergent for position 3 and got that wrong still these things happen
Some of the people posting at Cyclingnews are delusional or naive or both but quite funny.0 -
inseine wrote:As an aside, I was looking at the times and Hutchinsons time relative to his best at 25miles and I reckon anyone one who can do a sub hour 25 (average club rider?) would have beaten a good dozen of the riders. How hard can it be to get a Seychelles passport?
two of the Guernsey guys who were there qualified by doing a top 10 in rudy project, a sub 52 minute 25 in england and a sub 54 minute 25 in Guernsey. The other by getting several top 10s in inter cliub road races in belgium, I think the Jersey guy had to get several top placings in rudy projects or several top 20s in premier calendars. Not sure what the Isle of mans was but i don't think Tom Black is anything special however they are much stronger than alot of the other countries that were there0 -
RonB wrote:Question to some of the regulars here. Why did they have all riders heading off with only a 1min gap. Surely on such a straight course that gives quite an incentive (& advantage) to the later riders? My understanding was that some TT's start with riders 1min apart but for the anticipated top 10/20 the time difference goes up to 2min to avoid this issue.
Sometimes it's even a 3 minute gap for the top 10 riders. It's really at the discretion of the race organizer.
In this case - the field was all over the place so bigger gaps really wouldn't have helped much.0 -
Some of these smaller countries should get some ringers in, like Malta did for the 2003 Games of the Small States of Europe.
From their report of the event.For the first time, Malta clinched the first gold medal up for grabs in cycling. Dave Millar, joined the rest of the Maltese contingent on Monday. The lanky cyclist met the rest of the cycling team at the Hotel Panoramic and was quick to boost his colleagues’ mental preparation for the games. I recall having a quick chat with John Miles, the national coach on the eve of the time trial. He was confident that Malta would win gold and bronze the next day in the event.
As expected Dave Millar stormed to gold during the time trial to the joy of the rest of us who converged on to the finish line to cheer our cyclists. Jack Schiavone placed fourth and John Miles’s prediction fell short by just a whisker. But it was the right tonic to kick start the rest of the Maltese contingent.
From here: http://www.nocmalta.org/page.asp?p=7667&l=1Twitter: @RichN950 -
I wasn't there. Is it true ? What is unlikely is that the police dropped in for a quiet cup of tea on the off chance. So the tale goes they had phone tap evidence. Apparently, when caught, Millar did the denial thing - "Not me guv". Only when confronted with the phone tap evidence and the voice on tape of one David Millar did our boy 'fess up. At the time of his relase the "I've been speaking to my special pal Lance" was code for "I've been caught red handed and had to tell all, but boys, you are alright - the Omerta is safe with me. Its just me that is going down."
As the years have gone on and keeping the Omerta is now not the hero's badge it once was, our David has started to whistle a different tune. Now he is the anti-doping hero. David deserves it because he campaigns against doping. Swallow it if you want. To me he is a blatant opportunist. The opportunist that did not have the guts to walk away or try and win clean. The coward who, when caught, did not have the moral strength to tell it as it was, as he tells it now. David is there changing his tune as the environment around him changes. He did nothing to help the change, but sure as hell he knows how to maximise his rewards as the change is worked by others not as weak as he is. Love him - I don't care, but don't expect a smooth ride if you try to spin his current stance back to his attitude when caught. He sure is fooling a lot of the people, a lot of the time, though.0 -
You didn't read any of my post, did you?Le Blaireau (1)0
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pedro118118 wrote:I saw lots of riders (both men and woman) riding regular bikes, regular kit and non-aero helmets etc..........hardly a level playing field really. Not that they would be competitive anyway, but still.......
As for the Millar debate, I think people have very short memories. Sure, he's a poster boy for the anti-dopting campaign now, but he kicked and screamed for months before he finally fessed up, once confronted with damning evidnce. It was never the Knight falling on his sword image many believe. His charm and charisma have been the difference.
That's not to say he doesn't deserve a second chance just like others - Ricco and Vino included.
Until they change the rules that is (which I would like to see BTW).
No I think we all, or pretty much all, do remember Millar didn't fess up straight away. His implying that the guy who was implicating him in the months leading up to his confession was a bit unstable wasn't his finest hour.
But he didn't continue to deny it in the face of overwhelming evidence and he did volunteer his best wins as having been doped - even if there may have been some pressure on him to do that.
It's not so much that he's popular because he's a reformed doper - it's more that he's one of the more successful Brits, he's got a bit of class on and off the bike and his personality seems to appeal to some people (while rubbing others up the wrong way) - and he seems repentent enough that people are willing to overlook the doping.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Read the whole lot and of the various posts on the topic, yours was the one that sparked me to write again with the same message, only spelling it out in a wording that was more obvious.DaveyL wrote:You didn't read any of my post, did you?
This is a free world. We are not talking about winning the local wobbly wheelers 10 mile TT here but cheating to benefit his own financial position and in doing so robbing others of what is rightly theirs. If you think that someone conducting a deliberate and continued series of activities that he clearly understands are cheating, in order to win a World Championship is in the "grey" area of activity then you are entirely free to do so. For me, I have a different take and sadly I don't think we have heard the truth about his ride in Portugal in 2001. Clean David Millar v. juiced up Ulrich - just seconds in it? He made a cynical decision to just say enough to get himself off the hook. He played and continues to play the gullible. What tune do the punters want next ?0 -
You are just guessing. You are entitled to think the worst just as people are entitled to give him the benefit of the doubt - don't dress it up as fact though.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0
