Commonwealth Games TT

stfc1

Tom BB wrote:

camerone wrote:

Tom BB wrote:

Everyones favourite doper takes the win, Dowsett second 54 secs down-Burbridge bronze

are you suggesting he is still on the juice?

Nope, pretty convinced he's clean, or towards the cleaner end of the spectrum.......but in a few years time if Bertie has served a ban, come back as a champion of clean riding and wins another TdF, will everyone speak as highly of him as of Millar?

Probably, yes.

Chuffed for Millar, will have to catch online highlights as work rather inconveniently got in the way of me watching cycling this morning.

camerone

Tom BB wrote:

camerone wrote:

Tom BB wrote:

Everyones favourite doper takes the win, Dowsett second 54 secs down-Burbridge bronze

are you suggesting he is still on the juice?

Nope, pretty convinced he's clean, or towards the cleaner end of the spectrum.......but in a few years time if Bertie has served a ban, come back as a champion of clean riding and wins another TdF, will everyone speak as highly of him as of Millar?

if he does that yes., some people will. i wont but thats nothing to do with the fact he is a shifty little cheat, just dont like him..

Tom BB

Tbh I somewhat agree with the above comments.....think that Millars story highlights the sad state of pro cycling, and he is a different case than the Cobra etc....

Still makes it hard for cycling to have a clean image when ex dopers repentant or not continue to feature at the sharp of racing.

Tom Butcher

Tom BB wrote:

camerone wrote:

Tom BB wrote:

Everyones favourite doper takes the win, Dowsett second 54 secs down-Burbridge bronze

are you suggesting he is still on the juice?

Nope, pretty convinced he's clean, or towards the cleaner end of the spectrum.......but in a few years time if Bertie has served a ban, come back as a champion of clean riding and wins another TdF, will everyone speak as highly of him as of Millar?

I find that so unlikely that I have no idea how people will react. My guess is that Contador will continue to protest his innocence. Still I see no reason why people wont speak highly of him in after a ban - I mean people hold up Basso as an example but I can't remember him even admitting to more than thinking about doping (other than with some heavy hints) whereas Millar did fess up his biggest wins were juiced and consequently lost them from his palmares.

camerone

Tom BB wrote:

Tbh I somewhat agree with the above comments.....think that Millars story highlights the sad state of pro cycling, and he is a different case than the Cobra etc....

Still makes it hard for cycling to have a clean image when ex dopers repentant or not continue to feature at the sharp of racing.

i agree to an extent, i dont think cycling will ever have a truly clean image, i am more irritated that other sports like footy and tennis etc get by without the dope issues that i am sure are just as evident

Stu T

camerone wrote:

Tom BB wrote:

Tbh I somewhat agree with the above comments.....think that Millars story highlights the sad state of pro cycling, and he is a different case than the Cobra etc....

Still makes it hard for cycling to have a clean image when ex dopers repentant or not continue to feature at the sharp of racing.

i agree to an extent, i dont think cycling will ever have a truly clean image, i am more irritated that other sports like footy and tennis etc get by without the dope issues that i am sure are just as evident

Totally agree, I'd rather sports that are digging out and exposing cheats than one that is too clean to be believed.

Take rugby union why are there never any positive tests and how are some of those body shapes natural?

On a side note how good was Dowsett

sonny73

Bravo Millar, indeed it's been a great year for him.

Tom BB

Stu T....spot on! Rugby has to be one of the dirtiest sports!

Back to the racing-Great rides from Dowsett and Hutch I thought.

DaveyL

Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*

inseine

Well I said Millar to win Hutch top ten so I was kinda right though Hutch excelled himself.
Imagine what Millar could do to the hour record when Hutch had such a good crack at it and yet was 2.14 behind today.

inkyfingers

It's a bit of a shame in some ways that at the moment their is one rider in the world who is a step above all the others in the TTs...though I suppose this is often the case in sport. The talent in the group thats just below Cancellara is amazing...Martin, Millar, Wiggins, Porte, Rogers, Zabriskie (plus a few others) could all win on their day but usually get beaten by Spartacus, and even if he's not racing most people assume Spartacus would win if he was there.

inseine

As an aside, I was looking at the times and Hutchinsons time relative to his best at 25miles and I reckon anyone one who can do a sub hour 25 (average club rider?) would have beaten a good dozen of the riders. How hard can it be to get a Seychelles passport?

Stu T

As another aside why did the Beeb have Aus v NZ at Hockey on both BBC2 and 301. As much as I usually like watching ladies in gym skirts running about there were British cyclists with real medal chances to show

greeny12

Tell you who must wish he was part of the Commonwealth: Bert Grabsch!

How much would he have enjoyed that parcours???

a_n_t

inseine wrote:

reckon anyone one who can do a sub hour 25 (average club rider?) would have beaten a good dozen of the riders.

I said the same thing to the mrs, and some of the bikes looked shocking!!

Tom BB

a_n_t wrote:

inseine wrote:

reckon anyone one who can do a sub hour 25 (average club rider?) would have beaten a good dozen of the riders.

I said the same thing to the mrs, and some of the bikes looked shocking!!

I reckon most people racing at Cat 4 could have entered that time trial and not finished last...... the slowest riders to over 1 hour 10 mins for 40k (or just under 25 miles)! The course was flat as a witches tit too :shock:

graeme_s-2

Tom BB wrote:

a_n_t wrote:

inseine wrote:

reckon anyone one who can do a sub hour 25 (average club rider?) would have beaten a good dozen of the riders.

I said the same thing to the mrs, and some of the bikes looked shocking!!

I reckon most people racing at Cat 4 could have entered that time trial and not finished last...... the slowest riders to over 1 hour 10 mins for 40k (or just under 25 miles)! The course was flat as a witches tit too :shock:

That's only a 21.3mph average. I reckon on a flat course with closed roads even i could manage that and I'm a fat triathlete on a road bike with clip ons.

Tom BB

Just think what Bhima could have done on that course against that level of rider....top 10 easy

Pokerface

I only have one leg and can do a 58 minute, 25 mile TT. But let's face it - a lot of these guys probably have never ridden a TT of that length before and these types of games are more about 'participation' than about 'performance'.

takethehighroad

greeny12 wrote:

Tell you who must wish he was part of the Commonwealth: Bert Grabsch!

How much would he have enjoyed that parcours???

I think that's doing it a favour, calling it a parcours

hotoph88

DaveyL wrote:

Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*

It would lovely to believe Millar "fessed up" and that other myth - "worked with the authorities" to combat doping. The facts are that the police raided his apartment found the empty phials. Had the Police not taken that action Millar would have continued with the deception. He had nowhere to go and after a long period of agressive interogation, the police cracked him. Afterwards he spoke about the support from his friends and in particular the telephone call from his special friend Lance Armstrong. I think a street-wise 6 year old could translate that broadcast.
No, Millar never named the team-mates he roomed with who, many years later, (after they had retired ?) he stated were using doping products. He didn't blow the whistle on his team until they had all had adequate time to move on in their lives and be out of harms way when he eventually did start to speak.

Millar has played the majority audience supremely.

Fat Head

Caught 5 minutes of the TT this morning, the first riders off, and in that time saw one person miss his start time, one person wearing a jersey several sizes too large, and two riding the first 30 metres one handed as they had forgotten to clip the head unit of their computer onto their handlebars. Wonder what Sean Kelly would have had to say to them!

andrewgturnbull

hotoph88 wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*

It would lovely to believe Millar "fessed up" and that other myth - "worked with the authorities" to combat doping. The facts are that the police raided his apartment found the empty phials. Had the Police not taken that action Millar would have continued with the deception. He had nowhere to go and after a long period of agressive interogation, the police cracked him. Afterwards he spoke about the support from his friends and in particular the telephone call from his special friend Lance Armstrong. I think a street-wise 6 year old could translate that broadcast.
No, Millar never named the team-mates he roomed with who, many years later, (after they had retired ?) he stated were using doping products. He didn't blow the whistle on his team until they had all had adequate time to move on in their lives and be out of harms way when he eventually did start to speak.

Millar has played the majority audience supremely.

Your comments are noted, but I think what DaveyL meant was: "Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*"

Cheers, Andy

mroli

hotoph88 wrote:

No, Millar never named the team-mates he roomed with who, many years later, (after they had retired ?) he stated were using doping products. He didn't blow the whistle on his team until they had all had adequate time to move on in their lives and be out of harms way when he eventually did start to speak.

I take all these points, but against them, Millar has always seemed to speak humbly and with regret about his drug taking. He is part owner (I think) in Garmin which is team that races "clean" and he campaigns against drug taking now.

I understand completely why you feel that he didn't do all he could to expose drug taking in the sport, but I feel he put his hand up, took responsibility and has done what he can to ensure in a positive way that the sport is cleaner.

I guess he could have shopped half the peloton (and part of me thinks he should have done), but part of me also respects the fact that he has taken steps to ensure things are cleaner himself.

I think drug takers generally should be banned for life, but Millar's subsequent actions do seem to help the sport rather than hinder it. A hard one.

Tom Butcher

hotoph88 wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*

It would lovely to believe Millar "fessed up" and that other myth - "worked with the authorities" to combat doping. The facts are that the police raided his apartment found the empty phials. Had the Police not taken that action Millar would have continued with the deception. He had nowhere to go and after a long period of agressive interogation, the police cracked him. Afterwards he spoke about the support from his friends and in particular the telephone call from his special friend Lance Armstrong. I think a street-wise 6 year old could translate that broadcast.
No, Millar never named the team-mates he roomed with who, many years later, (after they had retired ?) he stated were using doping products. He didn't blow the whistle on his team until they had all had adequate time to move on in their lives and be out of harms way when he eventually did start to speak.

Millar has played the majority audience supremely.

Can't help thinking you are laying into a straw man there - nobody thinks Millar woke up one morning and decided to confess to doping and throw all his colleagues who were doing it to the wolves.

What he did do and does say is consistent with someone who has genuine regret and does want to make amends. The fact he didn't do it by getting everyone he had ridden with 2 year bans is understandable - especially as they had done no more than he'd done himself.

Neil Buckley

Tom bb (or the other people) haven't you ever made a mistake??? If you think millar doesn't regret what he did or the efforts he has gone to educate people about doping, making himself a case study for british cycling or the stance his team takes on doping you really need to forget about cycling, I hate doping as much as the rest of you but if you think David Millar should be tarnished with the same brush as the rest of the doping tossers, you really need to find a new sport to be bitter about, the work he as put in for anti doping and education about it should be applauded and I personally congratulate him for his gold, top result and tops a great season for him, I wear my Garmin kit with pride

takethehighroad

On the whole Millar is an unrepentent w*nk*r thing, if Kimmage can be impressed by the way he conducts himself, I think that's as good a doping barometer as I need

stfc1

andrewgturnbull wrote:

hotoph88 wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*

It would lovely to believe Millar "fessed up" and that other myth - "worked with the authorities" to combat doping. The facts are that the police raided his apartment found the empty phials. Had the Police not taken that action Millar would have continued with the deception. He had nowhere to go and after a long period of agressive interogation, the police cracked him. Afterwards he spoke about the support from his friends and in particular the telephone call from his special friend Lance Armstrong. I think a street-wise 6 year old could translate that broadcast.
No, Millar never named the team-mates he roomed with who, many years later, (after they had retired ?) he stated were using doping products. He didn't blow the whistle on his team until they had all had adequate time to move on in their lives and be out of harms way when he eventually did start to speak.

Millar has played the majority audience supremely.

Your comments are noted, but I think what DaveyL meant was: "Millar could have lied and kept hold of his Worlds TT win, but he 'fessed up and was stripped of the title. Ivan, are you reading this? *cough* 2006 Giro *cough*"

Cheers, Andy

I started to compose a reply to this last night and then scrapped it. I'm glad I did because Andy has just said what I wanted to say much more succinctly.

dulldave

Neil Buckley wrote:

I wear my Garmin kit with pride

Oh dear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU

Tom BB

Neil Buckley wrote:

Tom bb (or the other people) haven't you ever made a mistake??? If you think millar doesn't regret what he did or the efforts he has gone to educate people about doping, making himself a case study for british cycling or the stance his team takes on doping you really need to forget about cycling, I hate doping as much as the rest of you but if you think David Millar should be tarnished with the same brush as the rest of the doping tossers, you really need to find a new sport to be bitter about, the work he as put in for anti doping and education about it should be applauded and I personally congratulate him for his gold, top result and tops a great season for him, I wear my Garmin kit with pride

Yup made plenty of mistakes Neil......although cant think of many that are of the magnitude of cheating to win the world TT champs etc.....I agree that common sense would separate Millar from people such as Ricco etc but the fact is, he doped-he's a cheat. You seem to hold him in very high esteem....why not celebrate a non doper?

As for "I wear my Garmin kit with pride"- dont let freehub hear!......it does make you sound rather funny saying that