Womens road race spoiler

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Comments

  • hotoph88
    hotoph88 Posts: 58
    FJS wrote:
    dcj wrote:
    being gifted 30 seconds recovery time - while gaining 2 temporary team italy domestiques - is worth a world championship that was only settled in the last 100m.

    one thing seems certain don't you think: cooke will be upset with 'canadia' when she views the tapes?

    I don't know what recovery time you mean. Bunch joins chase group - domestiques from the bunch go to front and pull - whether they're Italian or Canadian domestiques, I don't know where those 30 seconds would come from.

    I think both Cooke and Arndt will be upset, but that strange Canadian tactic will be very low down the list of things upsetting her - it's every rider's right to ride around with strange tactics, and like I said I don't think it changed the dynamics of the race at all - there was a whole bunch to do the work when the Canadians started
    It is hard to have a reasoned argument with you when you fantasise about what was going on. I went and had another look in case I had gone crazy.

    You were right - there was a whole bunch there, but some were back in the changing rooms, and the rest were spread around the course behind the leaders. When the work needed doing there were available to do it:
    1 Italian - Bronzini
    1 Dutch rider - Vos
    1 Swede - Johansson
    1 GB - Pooley
    2 x Canadians - Whitten, Willock
    1 x Lithuanian - Leleivyte
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    edited October 2010
    hotoph88 wrote:
    It is hard to have a reasoned argument with you when you fantasise about what was going on. I went and had another look in case I had gone crazy.

    You were right - there was a whole bunch there, but some were back in the changing rooms, and the rest were spread around the course behind the leaders. When the work needed doing there were available to do it:
    1 Italian - Bronzini
    1 Dutch rider - Vos
    1 Swede - Johansson
    1 GB - Pooley
    2 x Canadians - Whitten, Willock
    1 x Lithuanian - Leleivyte

    I watched the race live, without commercial brakes, and with quality commentary, and I remember one Canadian in that group, and Guderzo as Italian. But if you have a video I'd be happy to see it, I'm curious now, particularly about your claim a sprinter like Bronzini was the Italian in there. Just to be sure, we're talking about the group that was between Arndt/Cooke and the peloton during the 4 kms between the second (shorter) climb and the ocean front road, in the last lap?

    But, suppose you are right, would it not be very normal for the Canadians to chase, as only nation with two riders in that group? Even if you don't have a good sprinter you have to carry the weight of the chase, as you can play out your two riders once you've caught back the two in front. If what you claim was the situation, Cooke and Arndt would have even less reason, none at all, to be cross with the Candians.
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    A larger group caught the smaller group that were chasing Cooke & Arndt on the coastal road about 2 kms from the finish. One member of this 7th Cavalry group was another Canadian who immediately went on the front to work for Whitten. I think both are mainly track riders, so an intense pursuit like that may be more in their nature, rather than brinksmanship 'road craft' tactics -- but anyway, being Canadian they don't owe Cooke any favours. At that point of the race if they mess about with bluffing tactics then gold & silver are gone, so they might as well pull the group and take their chance in the sprint.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    A larger group caught the smaller group that were chasing Cooke & Arndt on the coastal road about 2 kms from the finish. One member of this 7th Cavalry group was another Canadian who immediately went on the front to work for Whitten. I think both are mainly track riders, so an intense pursuit like that may be more in their nature, rather than brinksmanship 'road craft' tactics -- but anyway, being Canadian they don't owe Cooke any favours. At that point of the race if they mess about with bluffing tactics then gold & silver are gone, so they might as well pull the group and take their chance in the sprint.
    Exactly. but maybe hothop has a video where it's all different. I hope it's not one with Hugh Porter commentating ;)
  • hotoph88
    hotoph88 Posts: 58
    FJS wrote:

    I watched the race live, without commercial brakes, and with quality commentary, and I remember one Canadian in that group, and Guderzo as Italian. But if you have a video I'd be happy to see it, I'm curious now, particularly about your claim a sprinter like Bronzini was the Italian in there. Just to be sure, we're talking about the group that was between Arndt/Cooke and the peloton during the 4 kms between the second (shorter) climb and the ocean front road, in the last lap?
    The source of your confusion is that Porter called the Italian in the chasing group Guderzo. He was wrong. It was Bronzini. He did not call her right until after it must have appeared on his screen, after the finish. The "merge" occurred as I described in my earlier post.
    And before you dismiss the facts I present as rubbish - how could a sprinter make the 2nd selection group? - look at the results of the 2007 World Champs. Bronzini did exactly the same then. That time Vos did not chase and beat Bronzini in the sprint for silver.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    hotoph88 wrote:
    The source of your confusion is that Porter called the Italian in the chasing group Guderzo. He was wrong. It was Bronzini. He did not call her right until after it must have appeared on his screen, after the finish. The "merge" occurred as I described in my earlier post.
    And before you dismiss the facts I present as rubbish - how could a sprinter make the 2nd selection group? - look at the results of the 2007 World Champs. Bronzini did exactly the same then. That time Vos did not chase and beat Bronzini in the sprint for silver.

    Are you doing this on purpose? I've seen stubborn people, but this is beyond belief.

    I didn't watch it on BBC and listened to Porter (thank God), but followed it live at Sporza.

    Now, if you go to the BBC iPlayer you'll find that race at the end of their highlights programme: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ighlights/
    At 1:56:08 with 6 km to go, in the final lap, you see Cooke and Arndt attack
    At 1:56:50 you see an Italian go in the counter-attack, with clearly visible nr 01 - Guderzo
    At 1:58:20 and further you see a group of 6 has formed behind the two leaders with nr 15 (Vos), nr 27 (Pooley), 37 (Johansson), 68 (Whitten), and 01 (Guderzo). So no two Canadians and no Bronzini. Just check their numbers.
    At 2:00:20 with 2.7 km to go it is still the same situation, with 6 chasers, and only 1 Canadian girl.
    At 2:00:22, with 2 km to go you see the peloton has caught the 6 chasers, a big bunch of more than 20 riders, and a second Canadian from that peloton goes to the front, nr 69 (Willock) and leads the peloton chase.
    At 2:03:37 in the last straight the Italians have taken over the final chase.

    You did not answer my post where I asked why it would be strange for the Canadians to chase if, like you claimed, there would have been 2 of them.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Hadn't seen the race and didn't know it was on iplayer - was really great watching the last 15mins or so. A real shame the course didn't favour courageous attacking and went down to a sprint in all three races. Cooke rode very well, need to try and find some photos because she looked great on the bike, especially when she was getting aero.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Hadn't seen the race and didn't know it was on iplayer

    I shall have a watch later in the week. Interesting image on the viewer screen -- how old is that photo? Toe clips, alloy brake levers and seat posts... hairy legs...
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • hotoph88
    hotoph88 Posts: 58
    FJS wrote:

    Are you doing this on purpose? I've seen stubborn people, but this is beyond belief.

    I didn't watch it on BBC and listened to Porter (thank God), but followed it live at Sporza.

    Now, if you go to the BBC iPlayer you'll find that race at the end of their highlights programme: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ighlights/
    At 1:56:08 with 6 km to go, in the final lap, you see Cooke and Arndt attack
    At 1:56:50 you see an Italian go in the counter-attack, with clearly visible nr 01 - Guderzo
    At 1:58:20 and further you see a group of 6 has formed behind the two leaders with nr 15 (Vos), nr 27 (Pooley), 37 (Johansson), 68 (Whitten), and 01 (Guderzo). So no two Canadians and no Bronzini. Just check their numbers.
    At 2:00:20 with 2.7 km to go it is still the same situation, with 6 chasers, and only 1 Canadian girl.
    At 2:00:22, with 2 km to go you see the peloton has caught the 6 chasers, a big bunch of more than 20 riders, and a second Canadian from that peloton goes to the front, nr 69 (Willock) and leads the peloton chase.
    At 2:03:37 in the last straight the Italians have taken over the final chase.

    You did not answer my post where I asked why it would be strange for the Canadians to chase if, like you claimed, there would have been 2 of them.

    Thanks - I will have a look again. If I am wrong you will get an apology. No time tonight
    Answering the question - it was strange because there was entirely no point for the Canadians to do it. The result proves that.
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    I think it's what's known as being psyched up to race. If they simply obeyed the form book as logically as the armchair spectators they probably wouldn't have finished the race. :lol:
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • hotoph88
    hotoph88 Posts: 58
    FJS - I agree with your timing and rider listing. I was wrong. You are right. (Sorry flat out this week, only had a chance to review today.) 1 Canadian in the chase and no Bronzini. My excuse is Whitten was chasing good enough for 2 ! (Well it is better than - the 500 cases of EPO you found in my garage were for my dog!)

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