Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

disgruntledgoat

A joke, on all of us.

I'm sure i'll post something more reasoned later but st the moment I'm angry and for some reason disappointed.

iainf72

Can anyone seriously see WADA and the UCI not appealing?

The reasons they cleared him would have to be very compelling and we've seen no evidence of that so far.

Garry H

frenchfighter wrote:

I am happy for Riis and all the Saxobank riders, mechanics and all others involved in the team. Without Contador they would be sailing in very precarious waters. They may be out of work next year or even sooner. A whole team of riders have stability and peace of mind for their livelihoods for now; I am happy for that.

Agree with your sentiment regarding other team members, but will also add that it was AC that actually put their jobs at risk in the first place. Also, cannot see Saxo Bank continuing once their contractual obligations for this season have been fulfilled. As for Riis, can't say I have any sympathy.

iainf72

Marco Pinotti's latest tweet is gold.

Gazzaputt

iainf72 wrote:

Can anyone seriously see WADA and the UCI not appealing?

The reasons they cleared him would have to be very compelling and we've seen no evidence of that so far.

Not at all. I agree Iain if the evidence to clear is so compelling why would you not make it public?

I said a lot earlier in this thread the Spanish cycling federation would look after there own. You only have to look at the Valverde case.

WADA will most certainly take up an appeal.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

I am happy for Riis and all the Saxobank riders, mechanics and all others involved in the team. Without Contador they would be sailing in very precarious waters. They may be out of work next year or even sooner. A whole team of riders have stability and peace of mind for their livelihoods for now; I am happy for that.

How nice for them. Of course, another nail in the coffin of cycling's credibility means that all the teams that ultimately depend on TV revenues will be starting to wonder how long their sport will last....

disgruntledgoat

FF, what about the Spanish beef farmers Bert smeared in his defence? What of their livelihood?

No_Ta_Doctor

iainf72 wrote:

Can anyone seriously see WADA and the UCI not appealing?

The reasons they cleared him would have to be very compelling and we've seen no evidence of that so far.

They have to. As has been pointed out by others this is a kick in the teeth for strict liability. Whatever their views on the case per se the Spanish ruling needs to be challenged or strict liability is dead.

On the positive side, a successful appeal to CAS would both strengthen strict liability and could possibly lead to reform of the practice of having national federations sanction riders. The sport desperately needs an entirely independent doping control process, where no parties can be said to have any interest in the outcome of doping cases.

bazbadger

disgruntledgoat wrote:

FF, what about the Spanish beef farmers Bert smeared in his defence? What of their livelihood?

Details, details...or as they say 'Collateral Damage'!

Might as well have been Moonpig farmers with all the weight of evidence mind you.

andyp

darren H wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

darren H wrote:

What amazes me as usual in this case is the way uci have conducted themselves.
It really is a joke.
If early on inthe case contador wasnt informed correctly then why. Its obvious that the spanish picked up on this and that a loophole was now present.

You know it was the Spanish feds responsibility to inform Contador, not the UCI?

Ya wah
The uci sent a letter to the spanish and not contador and his legal team. Are you quite clear on that ?

Now im guessing that the letter didnt say happy birthday alberto, cmon its a uci pr joke.
Im guessing that letter outlined how the clenbuterol may have got there or it certainly must have been something like that.

They realised they had cocked up when they proposed not banned, proposed a one year ban.
Hoping that the spanish would go for that and accept it.

They had created a loophole and realised it.

Like i say a public relations disaster and yet again cycling suffers because the uci cannot get its act in order.

Just have a think what must have been in that letter

To quote Abraham Lincoln; "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. "

gabriel959

disgruntledgoat wrote:

FF, what about the Spanish beef farmers Bert smeared in his defence? What of their livelihood?

Do you mean like these ones?

http://www.diariodeleon.es/noticias/not ... omentarios

Wooliferkins

So, if he didn't take the clembuterol himself and did get it from the steak, are the Spanish cycling authorities accusing the Spanish beef farming industry of putting illegal growth hormones in their beef? Has Albertos mate who bought the steak conveniently forgotten where he got it from?

bazbadger

So:

He failed A and B test

Contador has not provided any evidence to the publics knowledge to support his claims

If the UCI and / or the WADA do not appeal then we are left with big question marks - quite possibly a farce

And

Confirmation of the existence (or not) of the test showing the rumoured presence of plastcizers, but seems unlikely this will ever see the light of day given how the rest of this has gone so far.

So many questions.

pat1cp

Looks like he's turning veggie !!!

"One thing is clear - I am not going to ingest any more meat," he said

Pokerface

To all the silly people that keep going on about 'the poor Spanish Beef Industry' and how they are going to take a hit: give it up for Lent.

It isn't going to affect them in the slightest. Oh sorry - Alberto's not eating beef any more so they've lost ONE customer. :roll:

No_Ta_Doctor

Pokerface wrote:

To all the silly people that keep going on about 'the poor Spanish Beef Industry' and how they are going to take a hit: give it up for Lent.

It isn't going to affect them in the slightest. Oh sorry - Alberto's not eating beef any more so they've lost ONE customer. :roll:

I imagine demand for beef will be extremely high in Spanish cycling circles. "Your honour, the cocktail of CERA, Clenbuterol, HGH and nandrolone found in my blood sample was clearly the result of a particularly good meal..."

frenchfighter

disgruntledgoat wrote:

FF, what about the Spanish beef farmers Bert smeared in his defence? What of their livelihood?

What has happened to them? Do you think people are not going to buy their meat. I doubt it. I have read no where that they are going to get hurt/fined/meat steered clear of.

Also have a read:

Diario de León - by F. Ramos SEPRONA (Servicio de Protección de la Naturaleza) of the Guardia Civil has seized 18,600 kilos of meat, arrested six people and charged two with crimes against public health

From 4,000 to 18,600 kilos. That’s how much “past-expiration, unlabeled, inadequately-labeled and falsely- or deceptively-labeled (to hinder traceability)” meat has in the end been confiscated by the agents of Seprona, in cooperation with the Board of Health of Castilla y León.

The investigation, begun last December, has already triggered the first six arrests, all of whom are residents of León between the ages of 26 and 45. Two of them, although the government subdelegation did not name names in its press release, are implicated in various acts of criminal fraud, against public health and of falsification.

In spite of this important takeover of goods, the agents who have carried out the operation, which is called “Almarcar,” have reported to the León Board of Health that they have proof that part of the meat was unable to be recovered and was sold commercially in the regional capital, specifically in a certain hotel, various restaurants and butcher shops.

Precisely this certainty, according to investigation sources accessible to Diario de León, is what caused both of the detainees to be charged with a crime against public health. Moreover, it is known for a fact that the people and businesses investigated were selling meat to various establishments in the catering industry. Therefore, the investigation itself and the Heath department have sent out a reassuring message since they understand that there has been no danger of food contamination.

Origin and destination
The Board has in its possession all inspection reports, which contain verification of necessary paperwork, traceability and purported origin and destination of all meat—from cattle, sheep and pigs. At present, work is underway for the precise purpose of determining the place of origin and intended destination of the confiscated meat.

At the same time, the board has opened an internal investigation into what part of the control system has failed, resulting in the inability to spot the meat which had passed its expiration date sooner. “We have to know exactly where it has failed,” explained territorial delegate Eduardo Fernández, ”because certainly much of this meat had all the regulations at the initial period, although it’s clear that something has not been done properly,” Eduardo Fernández told Diario de León.

Seprona identified a slaughterhouse and clandestine sorting room, where they killed animals “without any sanitary controls and fraudulently created channels to simulate inspection,” explained the government subdelegation in a press release published yesterday. The Board, on the other hand, stated that when a record of the homes of the various detainees was made, no illegal slaughterhouse turned up.

At any rate, the investigation remains open and the possibility of more arrests is not ruled out. Magistrate court No. 5, which handles the case, has ordered secret proceedings.

Also have a read again:

Ex-cyclist Ramón Riestra, member of the Board of Governors of ASAJA (Asociación Agraria Jóvenes Agricultores) of Asturias, exposes the hypothetical entrance into Spain of South American cattle contaminated with clenbuterol. To him, Contador is “a scapegoat.”

You’re going to tell.
I want to blow the whistle that clenbuterol-contaminated meat from South America is imported into Spain, and that Contador is only a scapegoat. It makes me angry, because he seems like a good guy, and besides, I was a cyclist.

Explain, please.
Look. The European Union signed an agreement with Mercosur, the South American customs union, to import 20 million tons of meat in three years to 27 European countries. In Spain, which is a country with a shortfall in meat, this is equivalent to a minimum of two million tons. And they have to know that in South America, fattening cattle with clenbuterol is not prohibited.

But they have to pass controls, don't they?
I’d like to see those controls. It’s very easy. They send a proper first batch and, after the controls, the bulk of the lot. Or they fix it with a bribe. I have a relative who was a health inspector and he told me that there wasn’t anything to do.

Then, you think that Contador could have eaten this meat?
It’s more than possible. Look, one of the ports where most of this meat is unloaded is Saint-Jean-de-Luz (France), a French city that’s very close to Irun (15 kilometers to be exact). It’s not strange that some butcher shop in Irun provided this meat. This is a business, and what they’re most interested in is importing to Holland and especially, to France, which after the United States has the biggest meat-processing industry in the world (ham, sausages…).

And all that export hurts the Spanish cattle farmers, right?
Naturally. We have to go through three controls a year. They take blood from all our animals. Everything has to be right, and we’re at a disadvantage to the Mercosur countries, where they have between 600 to 700 million head of beef. We told the authorities that they were headed for trouble, but they’re city people that have no idea of agriculture or ecology.

You said that you were a cyclist.
Yes, amateur. But there were a lot of open races and I got to ride a Paris-Nice with Eddy Merckx, who won it. And a lot of times with Luis Ocaña. (By Chema Bermejo, AS.com)

Done.

jswba

Alpuerto Clenbutador.

No_Ta_Doctor

FF - looking aside from the fact that you clearly believe justice has been done and that you accept Contador's explanation, what are your thoughts on strict liability per se and how this case has possibly "reinterpreted" it? Do you believe this to be a good thing? Do you think that merely offering a plausible (to some) explanation of how a drug is found in an athlete's blood/urine (when other similarly plausible explanations, less innocent, might be offered) is enough to avoid sanction? Or is there some other factor in Contador's case that merits such divergence from a well established rule?

Is strict liability now dead? Is that a good thing?

nickwill

It does sound as if an appeal is likely.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-criticises-spain-after-contador-decision
In the mean time it is to be hoped that the cycling public make their feelings known!

frenchfighter

Depends on what is found.

If can be consumed via food etc and is a totally insignificant amount then it would be total rubbish to convict someone on that.

Especially if there is a perfectly possible, well rounded and backed up explanation.

Seriously, rules or whatever, that is total rubbish.

Imagine you losing your job for 2 years as a result of some insignificant mistake just because they are the rules.

frenchfighter

No one has responded to this. You don't do your credibility any favours.

frenchfighter wrote:

One rider. Congratulations. Keep on trying.

Also, talk about consistency, apply yours. Go find every single clen case and every single similar case for other substances. Lay those down to me then you will have some ground to stand on. Show me that every single case has resulted in a 2yr ban and Contador is the only rider who hasnt got a 2yr then we can talk.

Otherwise it it pointless.

Also am tired of opinion, very few concrete arguments or facts or good links to expert analysis and comment.

bazbadger

frenchfighter wrote:

Also have a read again:

Ex-cyclist Ramón Riestra, member of the Board of Governors of ASAJA (Asociación Agraria Jóvenes Agricultores) of Asturias, exposes the hypothetical entrance into Spain of South American cattle contaminated with clenbuterol. To him, Contador is “a scapegoat.”

You’re going to tell.
I want to blow the whistle that clenbuterol-contaminated meat from South America is imported into Spain, and that Contador is only a scapegoat. It makes me angry, because he seems like a good guy, and besides, I was a cyclist.

Explain, please.
Look. The European Union signed an agreement with Mercosur, the South American customs union, to import 20 million tons of meat in three years to 27 European countries. In Spain, which is a country with a shortfall in meat, this is equivalent to a minimum of two million tons. And they have to know that in South America, fattening cattle with clenbuterol is not prohibited.

But they have to pass controls, don't they?
I’d like to see those controls. It’s very easy. They send a proper first batch and, after the controls, the bulk of the lot. Or they fix it with a bribe. I have a relative who was a health inspector and he told me that there wasn’t anything to do.

Then, you think that Contador could have eaten this meat?
It’s more than possible. Look, one of the ports where most of this meat is unloaded is Saint-Jean-de-Luz (France), a French city that’s very close to Irun (15 kilometers to be exact). It’s not strange that some butcher shop in Irun provided this meat. This is a business, and what they’re most interested in is importing to Holland and especially, to France, which after the United States has the biggest meat-processing industry in the world (ham, sausages…).

And all that export hurts the Spanish cattle farmers, right?
Naturally. We have to go through three controls a year. They take blood from all our animals. Everything has to be right, and we’re at a disadvantage to the Mercosur countries, where they have between 600 to 700 million head of beef. We told the authorities that they were headed for trouble, but they’re city people that have no idea of agriculture or ecology.

You said that you were a cyclist.
Yes, amateur. But there were a lot of open races and I got to ride a Paris-Nice with Eddy Merckx, who won it. And a lot of times with Luis Ocaña. (By Chema Bermejo, AS.com)

Done.

Right, so we are expected to believe that Contador will eat "just any old meat?" - I thought the original story was that he wanted some good old home cooking - not some supermarket stuff which he could have got in France. There may well be some truth in the imported meat, but it's more than likely to end up in sausages, mince etc. Quality butchers would be getting their beef from sources they know and trust - ie local farmers - hence it being nice to eat - hence Contador apparently wanting some to be brought all the way from home.

FJS

iainf72 wrote:

Can anyone seriously see WADA and the UCI not appealing?

One person is confident - nr 1 on the final Algarve start list (http://jornalciclismo.com/directo-da-1% ... -albufeira) has actually arrived in Algarve, and should be on the road now. From back at the 2011 Vuelta to the 2013 TdF?

Or, perhaps not so confident? And more interestingly:
http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/no ... p?id=35655
Contador announces his schedule for this year, including the Giro..... Considering apparently a CAS appeal will already need some speeding up to be done before the Tour, Bertie's pretty much guaranteed to be able to ride in May. Teams announced 7 March.....

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

No one has responded to this. You don't do your credibility any favours.

frenchfighter wrote:

One rider. Congratulations. Keep on trying.

Also, talk about consistency, apply yours. Go find every single clen case and every single similar case for other substances. Lay those down to me then you will have some ground to stand on. Show me that every single case has resulted in a 2yr ban and Contador is the only rider who hasnt got a 2yr then we can talk.

Otherwise it it pointless.

Also am tired of opinion, very few concrete arguments or facts or good links to expert analysis and comment.

Why don't you provide us with that list then? Perhaps you could furnish us with the much shorter list of athletes who received absolutely no ban whatsoever despite having doping products in their bloodstream, and having no concrete proof of how they got there?

frenchfighter

Wrong on two counts.

One: I am not the one complaining about the issue.

Two: go back about 20 pages or something and I already put a handful, related to just Clen.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Depends on what is found.

If can be consumed via food etc and is a totally insignificant amount then it would be total rubbish to convict someone on that.

Especially if there is a perfectly possible, well rounded and backed up explanation.

Seriously, rules or whatever, that is total rubbish.

Imagine you losing your job for 2 years as a result of some insignificant mistake just because they are the rules.

The amount is never insignificant, tests have to be able to pick up traces to ensure that drugs are detectable over longer time periods. Unless you can pinpoint exactly when the substance entered the body there is no way of saying how much was taken, it may have been a lot but a long time ago.

Thresholds exist for substances that are naturally occurring in the body, such as testosterone. Clenbuterol isn't one of them.

But this then, is your fundamental line: if there is a plausible explanation (for a given value of plausible) then an athlete should not be sanctioned. Not a proven, or likely explanation, but plausible.

Imagine failing badly at your job because the people you had to compete with were breaking all the rules?

B3rnieMac

i've been reading this from the start and FF just doesnt get it. clen was in his system. he should have been banned. if he could prove it was accidental, a reduced ban should be enforced but still a ban.
you can say "oh, but but but" and point to other people who were let off. you can point to "expert analysis" where academics are discussing the feasiblity of ingested meat being the culprit.

THERE IS NO PROOF SO HE SHOULD BE BANNED and that is it. it should be entirely black and white, cut and dry.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Wrong on two counts.

One: I am not the one complaining about the issue.

Two: go back about 20 pages or something and I already put a handful, related to just Clen.

Yes, I saw those ages ago, they were roundly shown to be largely irrelevant to the Contador case as they occurred in countries with significant amounts of clenbuterol doping of cattle, and even outbreaks of clenbuterol poisoning in the human population as a result.

Anonymous

He is tainted with this now, just another Valverde.

His A and B tests were positive.

Its all just rubbish and really puts me off watching the grand tours this year.

No more from me on this, not that my opinion matters just feel despondent about it all.