Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

squired

Given that the UCI were apparently trying their best to keep this quiet I can't help wonder what would have happened had the media not got involved. Would the UCI have dealt with this in-house, with Contador "Banned" for the off-season? Is it something that they were hoping would only get into the public domain years from now, by which time all the top guys in the UCI would be long gone?

jibberjim

Dave_1 wrote:

I just know hotels can be very far away from TDF start and finish areas and drs have the law behind them and can make judgments as to what is best. Are you certain no infusion kit is allowed?

The rules on IV are posted above, you could certainly get a TUE for IV's, however it's something you have to do the documentation for the retroactive TUE immediately, you don't get to wait until you fail the test.

No_Ta_Doctor

squired wrote:

Given that the UCI were apparently trying their best to keep this quiet I can't help wonder what would have happened had the media not got involved. Would the UCI have dealt with this in-house, with Contador "Banned" for the off-season? Is it something that they were hoping would only get into the public domain years from now, by which time all the top guys in the UCI would be long gone?

I'm not sure WADA would have let that happen. I have a gut feeling we wouldn't have heard about the plasticisers though.

Mettan

rdt wrote:

As an innocent guy, he'd have had no clue where the Clen came from, and that should have been his story.

That he's insisting, seemingly with certainty, that it's the alleged steak (as opposed to a whole host of possibilities such as, say, contamination of a supplement, etc), even though he has zero evidence to support the claim, just makes the claim appear even more ridiculous than the convoluted jackanory story already warrants.

Agreed, a laughable fairy story if ever I've heard one - his team have picked this fairy story as it provides them with an oppurtunity to find some clen-infused meat - a trvial task considering the stakes are so high (pardon the pun).

dennisn

Mettan wrote:

rdt wrote:

As an innocent guy, he'd have had no clue where the Clen came from, and that should have been his story.

That he's insisting, seemingly with certainty, that it's the alleged steak (as opposed to a whole host of possibilities such as, say, contamination of a supplement, etc), even though he has zero evidence to support the claim, just makes the claim appear even more ridiculous than the convoluted jackanory story already warrants.

Agreed, a laughable fairy story if ever I've heard one - his team have picked this fairy story as it provides them with an oppurtunity to find some clen-infused meat - a trvial task considering the stakes are so high (pardon the pun).

Pardon my ignorance on all this, but it's my understanding that only AC, and not his team, knew about this positive test, for a few months???? Therefore the team "picking" this story sounds a little hard to believe, although on short notice ya never know. If that's the case? IF AC didn't talk to team officials for that period he must have talked to "his people",
someone, a lawyer at the very least. Maybe the steak story came from them(as opposed to his team)?? Maybe AC believes that the steak was "bad" and maybe it was? At first I wondered how he could remember what he had eaten. I don't recall my meals from a week ago, but I'm sure that he, like many others, keeps a record of food intake. So I'm not sure what I believe, to be honest, and in the end whether it's justice or a miscarriage of justice there will still be two sides to the whole thing. For me, an amount that small, and all the possible causes behind it, doesn't merit ruining a mans lifes work.

attica

Mettan wrote:

Agreed, a laughable fairy story if ever I've heard one - his team have picked this fairy story as it provides them with an oppurtunity to find some clen-infused meat - a trvial task considering the stakes are so high (pardon the pun).

1 Buy Steak
2 Inject with Clenbuterol (assuming you can get hold of some )
Or maybe a marinade


Simples

cajun_cyclist

Mettan wrote:

rdt wrote:

As an innocent guy, he'd have had no clue where the Clen came from, and that should have been his story.

That he's insisting, seemingly with certainty, that it's the alleged steak (as opposed to a whole host of possibilities such as, say, contamination of a supplement, etc), even though he has zero evidence to support the claim, just makes the claim appear even more ridiculous than the convoluted jackanory story already warrants.

Agreed, a laughable fairy story if ever I've heard one - his team have picked this fairy story as it provides them with an oppurtunity to find some clen-infused meat - a trvial task considering the stakes are so high (pardon the pun).

Well, I would discount Contador's theory but so often truth is stranger than fiction.

If one is notified on a test result, naturally the involved parties might start searching for a answer to where this came from. Interesting though, I am sure Contador ate meat at other junctures in this Tour but it is only the meat that came from Spain?? Well, being professionals, yes, they must have had a record of his meals so in that way, perhaps it makes sense. July 21st or whenver, what did we eat, yes, we have a record of that. Maybe that is not that farfetched.

surista

Sorry, I'm a bit fuzzy on this as well: Was the Astana team informed of the failed test result? I'd have to think they would have been informed, or at the very least AC would have informed them, correct?

And if AC was indeed innocent, surely he would have had the entire Astana team support staff out at the press conference, with team schedules, diet records, shopping lists, etc.

sherer

dennisn wrote:

Maybe the steak story came from them(as opposed to his team)?? Maybe AC believes that the steak was "bad" and maybe it was? At first I wondered how he could remember what he had eaten. I don't recall my meals from a week ago, but I'm sure that he, like many others, keeps a record of food intake. So I'm not sure what I believe, to be honest, and in the end whether it's justice or a miscarriage of justice there will still be two sides to the whole thing. For me, an amount that small, and all the possible causes behind it, doesn't merit ruining a mans lifes work.

I don't think AC has ever said he ate a steak that made him feel bad or funny, just that they think the source of the clenbutanol is from this steak that he ate that day.

Are there any links to AC saying the steak tasted funny or bad ?

Moomaloid

Can i ask, how come is this was so far under the testing limit of WADA's tests, was it picked up in the first place? Do all ASO tests test at for those levels?

Bronzie

Moomaloid wrote:

Can i ask, how come is this was so far under the testing limit of WADA's tests, was it picked up in the first place? Do all ASO tests test at for those levels?

No, WADA acreditted labs must be able to detect a level of clenbuterol 40 times higher than that found. However there are apparently just four labs in the world (Cologne where this sample was tested being one of them) that can detect the drug to much lower levels than that required.

Bronzie

surista wrote:

Sorry, I'm a bit fuzzy on this as well: Was the Astana team informed of the failed test result? I'd have to think they would have been informed, or at the very least AC would have informed them, correct?

And if AC was indeed innocent, surely he would have had the entire Astana team support staff out at the press conference, with team schedules, diet records, shopping lists, etc.

No - Contador was apparently asked to keep it quiet by the UCI until "the matter could be fully investigated". Only his brother (and agent, Fran) and his PR manager were made aware of the positive test.

No_Ta_Doctor

A few thoughts on the alleged plasticisers test.....

Firstly, the plasticisers showed up the day before the Clen did, if I'm reading rightly. Which seems strange, both from the perspective of timing a transfusion (the day before a rest day, what was the stage?) and the possible link to sourcing the Clen. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever about how long it would take for the Clen to get into the urine?

The second is more procedural - various posters have made the point that the test is as yet not ratified for used in doping control, but that it could possibly be used (and I suppose challenged) as contributory evidence. That leads to the question of waiting until it's ratified (if ever) and then retesting old samples of many riders (which would be nice) but also the possibility of Contador slipping the net now, but copping a ban if and when the test is approved. Which would be weird.

It also puts quite a lot of pressure on any committee seeking to approve the test, now that its existence is out in the open and one high profile sportsman has already failed it.... If the UCI treat the test as anything other than "uncertain" then there's a risk that the committee will end up undermining a ruling... Is this sort of thing common in testing?

slowondefy2

surista wrote:

Especially since clen has been banned [for use in cattle] in Europe for years and years.

Not true. Clenbuterol is a licensed veterinary medicine (at least in the UK, I have no idea about Spain).

It does have a withdrawal period (minimum time between treatment and taking milk or slaughter for human consumption) which the farmer *should* adhere to, but it's not impossible to think that a farmer would ignore this - especially in the case of clenbuterol.

Contaminated milk as a source is practically impossible - milk from a treated cow would diluted so much (by the milk from other cows) as to be undetectable. Not impossible to think a cow would be treated with clen whilst giving birth, then died in the process and entered the food chain. It shouldn't, but not impossible to think so.

Still, I think it's much more likely that he took a contaminated infusion.

cajun_cyclist

I was reading comments at PodiumCafe and someone had this odd ball quote Clenbuterol has been found in water before... of course, it would still be a riders responsibility per the law to make sure it did not find it's way into his system.

Websearching this, I find Clenbuterol being used, unbelievably, in dietary applications in a time frame from around 2002. Plenty of references on this.

Here is a snippet about Clen in Portugal and I believe the article is saying Catlle were given Clen in drinking water.

Evaluation of the illegal use of clenbuterol in Portuguese cattle farms from drinking water, urine, hair and feed samples
Authors: F. Ramosa; M. L. Baetaa; J. Reisb; M. I. N. Silveiraa

Abstract
The recent discovery of clenbuterol contamination in Portuguese food led to the specific inspection of 16 cattle farms for β-agonists, involving the analysis of a total of 486 samples (78 feed, 106 drinking water, 168 urine and 134 hair). The samples were screened for the β-agonists: bromobuterol, cimaterol, clenbuterol, Only clenbuterol was found in all analyzed matrices and the most likely method of illegal administration to animals was through drinking water. Of all samples analysed, 14.clenpenterol, clenproperol, hydroxymethylclenbuterol, mapenterol, salbutamol and terbutaline. 15% of drinking water were found positive in the range 0.03-3.80 mg l-1 clenbuterol. Inclusion of hair samples in the Portuguese plan for clenbuterol residue control in live animals is discussed.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/conten ... a912638681

Again, I point out one excerpt:

"Only clenbuterol was found in all analyzed matrices and the most likely method of illegal administration to animals was through drinking water. "

Defence would seem to be easy to say Clenbuterol is not found in the drinking water of Spain or France as regards to the riders.

It is interesting that Contador's samples were sent to a lab in Germany that could study his sample to the utmost. Perhaps in the past other winners did not have to withstand this scrutiny, making this a bit of a gray area again.

iainf72

No tA Doctor wrote:

Firstly, the plasticisers showed up the day before the Clen did, if I'm reading rightly. Which seems strange, both from the perspective of timing a transfusion (the day before a rest day, what was the stage?) and the possible link to sourcing the Clen. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever about how long it would take for the Clen to get into the urine?

The timing works. I think it's a common misconception that transfusions are done on rest days. I think Kohl said you feel a bit wierd afterwards but feel good on the 2nd day, so that would tie in nicely.

cajun_cyclist

http://www.eworldpost.com/13-person-fel ... 17176.html

13 people got sick eating snake meat with Clenbuterol!! :shock:

dennisn

sherer wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Maybe the steak story came from them(as opposed to his team)?? Maybe AC believes that the steak was "bad" and maybe it was? At first I wondered how he could remember what he had eaten. I don't recall my meals from a week ago, but I'm sure that he, like many others, keeps a record of food intake. So I'm not sure what I believe, to be honest, and in the end whether it's justice or a miscarriage of justice there will still be two sides to the whole thing. For me, an amount that small, and all the possible causes behind it, doesn't merit ruining a mans lifes work.

I don't think AC has ever said he ate a steak that made him feel bad or funny, just that they think the source of the clenbutanol is from this steak that he ate that day.

Are there any links to AC saying the steak tasted funny or bad ?

When I said BAD I was refering to the meat being comtaminated with this drug. Not that it made him feel bad or sick. :oops: :oops:

Pokerface

iainf72 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Firstly, the plasticisers showed up the day before the Clen did, if I'm reading rightly. Which seems strange, both from the perspective of timing a transfusion (the day before a rest day, what was the stage?) and the possible link to sourcing the Clen. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever about how long it would take for the Clen to get into the urine?

The timing works. I think it's a common misconception that transfusions are done on rest days. I think Kohl said you feel a bit wierd afterwards but feel good on the 2nd day, so that would tie in nicely.

But how would that work in terms of the plasticizers showing up - but not the clenbuterol? Surely they would both be present at the same time? Or would it depend on the timing of the transfusion vs the testing?

LangerDan

cajun_cyclist wrote:

I was reading comments at PodiumCafe and someone had this odd ball quote Clenbuterol has been found in water before... of course, it would still be a riders responsibility per the law to make sure it did not find it's way into his system.

Websearching this, I find Clenbuterol being used, unbelievably, in dietary applications in a time frame from around 2002. Plenty of references on this.

Here is a snippet about Clen in Portugal and I believe the article is saying Catlle were given Clen in drinking water.



Again, I point out one excerpt:

"Only clenbuterol was found in all analyzed matrices and the most likely method Iof illegal administration to animals was through drinking water. "

.

The report isn't saying that Portugese drinking water is contaminaed with clenbuterol. Rather the method by which the farmers were illegally administering clenbuterol to the cattle was by adding it to their drinking water. It seems clenbuterol is adsorbed easliy when taken orally which has got to be far easier than repeatedly injecting cattle.

dennisn

cajun_cyclist wrote:

http://www.eworldpost.com/13-person-fell-sick-eating-snake-meat-containing-clenbuterol-17176.html

13 people got sick eating snake meat with Clenbuterol!! :shock:

Just when you think you've heard it all, something like that comes along.
What the hell is going on out there in the world?
Good find cajun.

ratsbeyfus

Pokerface wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Firstly, the plasticisers showed up the day before the Clen did, if I'm reading rightly. Which seems strange, both from the perspective of timing a transfusion (the day before a rest day, what was the stage?) and the possible link to sourcing the Clen. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever about how long it would take for the Clen to get into the urine?

The timing works. I think it's a common misconception that transfusions are done on rest days. I think Kohl said you feel a bit wierd afterwards but feel good on the 2nd day, so that would tie in nicely.

But how would that work in terms of the plasticizers showing up - but not the clenbuterol? Surely they would both be present at the same time? Or would it depend on the timing of the transfusion vs the testing?

Perhaps the lab / equipment testing for the plastic wasn't the one in which the clem was found? The plastic was found in urine. Does anyone know/recall where the clem was found? Urine? Blood?

ratsbeyfus

jibberjim wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I just know hotels can be very far away from TDF start and finish areas and drs have the law behind them and can make judgments as to what is best. Are you certain no infusion kit is allowed?

The rules on IV are posted above, you could certainly get a TUE for IV's, however it's something you have to do the documentation for the retroactive TUE immediately, you don't get to wait until you fail the test anymore.

Fixed that for you.

Pokerface

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Does anyone know/recall where the clem was found? Urine? Blood?

Pee

LangerDan

Pokerface wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Firstly, the plasticisers showed up the day before the Clen did, if I'm reading rightly. Which seems strange, both from the perspective of timing a transfusion (the day before a rest day, what was the stage?) and the possible link to sourcing the Clen. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever about how long it would take for the Clen to get into the urine?

The timing works. I think it's a common misconception that transfusions are done on rest days. I think Kohl said you feel a bit wierd afterwards but feel good on the 2nd day, so that would tie in nicely.

But how would that work in terms of the plasticizers showing up - but not the clenbuterol? Surely they would both be present at the same time? Or would it depend on the timing of the transfusion vs the testing?

Plasticisers are excreted in urine very rapidly. My guess is that they just move through the system far more rapidly than clenbuterol

le_patron

I love the 'plasticiser' angle, not enough to sanction, but retro-tests of any sample from any rider going waay back would be very revealing. Talking of which, what happened to those '08 Giro CERA re-tests ? I lost track.

Also, what happened to blood 'ozone' boosts ? That was undetectable when re-injected supposedly, maybe behind this story.

rdt

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... =D9ILN4780

"ROME — Italy's anti-doping prosecutor is convinced that all cyclists are doping, a belief reinforced by four years of work as one of the world leaders in the effort against drugs in sports.

"I'm not the only one saying it. Lately, all of the cyclists I've interrogated have said that everyone dopes," the 78-year-old Ettore Torri told The Associated Press on Tuesday in his first interview in two years.

Torri has been at the forefront of the anti-doping fight since he took over in 2006, prosecuting Giro d'Italia champions Ivan Basso and Danilo Di Luca and other Italian standouts, such as Alessandro Petacchi and Riccardo Ricco, on behalf of the Italian Olympic Committee known as CONI.

"The longer I'm involved in this, the more I marvel at how widespread doping is," Torri said. "And I don't think it will be eradicated. Because it just evolves continuously. There are new substances coming out that can't be tested for.""

gsk82

psittacosis wrote:

what if a mischevious pixie came and sprinkled magical clenbuterol on his steak? what if? what if?

that was my initial response to this story. i'm sure there must be someone in pro cycling who has had a falling out with contador who has the cash to pay/ info to bribe someone from his former team to carry out such an act

[takes cover]

calvjones

gsk82 wrote:

psittacosis wrote:

what if a mischevious pixie came and sprinkled magical clenbuterol on his steak? what if? what if?

that was my initial response to this story. i'm sure there must be someone in pro cycling who has had a falling out with contador who has the cash to pay/ info to bribe someone from his former team to carry out such an act

[takes cover]

Yes, I noted Bertie tentatively floated the 'I hope there's noone at the TdF who wishes me ill' defence in the ES interview. :roll:

skylark

Don't believe everything you read in the papers. That story looks bogus. It is a fake.