Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
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I note Ben Johnson is now coming out with "my drink was spiked", though to be fair he admits his steroid use. Book release shortly should take the focus off cycling for a few minutes....Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
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le patron wrote:I love the 'plasticiser' angle, not enough to sanction, but retro-tests of any sample from any rider going waay back would be very revealing. Talking of which, what happened to those '08 Giro CERA re-tests ? I lost track.
Also, what happened to blood 'ozone' boosts ? That was undetectable when re-injected supposedly, maybe behind this story.
Didn't Pat say they weren't going to be tested as he didn't care about the past only who is doping now0 -
rdt wrote:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g8fUGGdoMQ_OM4KIM8OFud178yBgD9ILN4780?docId=D9ILN4780
"ROME — Italy's anti-doping prosecutor is convinced that all cyclists are doping, a belief reinforced by four years of work as one of the world leaders in the effort against drugs in sports.
"I'm not the only one saying it. Lately, all of the cyclists I've interrogated have said that everyone dopes," the 78-year-old Ettore Torri told The Associated Press on Tuesday in his first interview in two years.
Torri has been at the forefront of the anti-doping fight since he took over in 2006, prosecuting Giro d'Italia champions Ivan Basso and Danilo Di Luca and other Italian standouts, such as Alessandro Petacchi and Riccardo Ricco, on behalf of the Italian Olympic Committee known as CONI.
"The longer I'm involved in this, the more I marvel at how widespread doping is," Torri said. "And I don't think it will be eradicated. Because it just evolves continuously. There are new substances coming out that can't be tested for.""
Marco Pinotti has made a good point about this on Twitter:
"if you interrogate rider connected with doping, what did you expect them to say?
they prefer to hide behind the belief "everyone is doping" instead admitting they are losers, wanckers, cheaters, liars"Twitter: @RichN950 -
gsk82 wrote:psittacosis wrote:what if a mischevious pixie came and sprinkled magical clenbuterol on his steak? what if? what if?
that was my initial response to this story. i'm sure there must be someone in pro cycling who has had a falling out with contador who has the cash to pay/ info to bribe someone from his former team to carry out such an act
[takes cover]
Sabotage??? Sure, why not. Always a possibility I would think. Sad but true. Always someone out there who will do Dirty Deeds(Done Dirt Cheap). Why would cycling be immune to a bit of shady dealings?0 -
But how would that work in terms of the plasticizers showing up - but not the clenbuterol? Surely they would both be present at the same time? Or would it depend on the timing of the transfusion vs the testing?
New article using the term "Metabolites of Plastic", that plasticizers was a new word for me.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... test_.html0 -
Bronzie wrote:
No - Contador was apparently asked to keep it quiet by the UCI until "the matter could be fully investigated". Only his brother (and agent, Fran) and his PR manager were made aware of the positive test.surista wrote:Sorry, I'm a bit fuzzy on this as well: Was the Astana team informed of the failed test result? I'd have to think they would have been informed, or at the very least AC would have informed them, correct?
And if AC was indeed innocent, surely he would have had the entire Astana team support staff out at the press conference, with team schedules, diet records, shopping lists, etc.
Also I cant believe Astana are going to do anything other than try to lie low on this one. They might be able to dodge the clen issue but if the plasticisers point becomes a big part of this then they are right in the frame....again!0 -
I wouldn't entirely rule it out as a possibility, but it's a big risk to take for little obvious gain, unless you're Andy Schleck.dennisn wrote:gsk82 wrote:psittacosis wrote:what if a mischevious pixie came and sprinkled magical clenbuterol on his steak? what if? what if?
that was my initial response to this story. i'm sure there must be someone in pro cycling who has had a falling out with contador who has the cash to pay/ info to bribe someone from his former team to carry out such an act
[takes cover]
Sabotage??? Sure, why not. Always a possibility I would think. Sad but true. Always someone out there who will do Dirty Deeds(Done Dirt Cheap). Why would cycling be immune to a bit of shady dealings?
It doesn't work in this case, though - even if you decided that clenbuterol was the most effective way of getting a rider to fail a test, why would you go to all that trouble to spike his food with a tiny quantity that was unlikely to be detected, and which he could reasonably argue carried no performance advantage and couldn't have been administered deliberately?N00b commuter with delusions of competence
FCN 11 - If you scalp me, do I not bleed?0 -
RichN95 wrote:rdt wrote:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g8fUGGdoMQ_OM4KIM8OFud178yBgD9ILN4780?docId=D9ILN4780
"ROME — Italy's anti-doping prosecutor is convinced that all cyclists are doping, a belief reinforced by four years of work as one of the world leaders in the effort against drugs in sports.
"I'm not the only one saying it. Lately, all of the cyclists I've interrogated have said that everyone dopes," the 78-year-old Ettore Torri told The Associated Press on Tuesday in his first interview in two years.
Torri has been at the forefront of the anti-doping fight since he took over in 2006, prosecuting Giro d'Italia champions Ivan Basso and Danilo Di Luca and other Italian standouts, such as Alessandro Petacchi and Riccardo Ricco, on behalf of the Italian Olympic Committee known as CONI.
"The longer I'm involved in this, the more I marvel at how widespread doping is," Torri said. "And I don't think it will be eradicated. Because it just evolves continuously. There are new substances coming out that can't be tested for.""
Marco Pinotti has made a good point about this on Twitter:
"if you interrogate rider connected with doping, what did you expect them to say?
they prefer to hide behind the belief "everyone is doping" instead admitting they are losers, wanckers, cheaters, liars"
Something that stood out in the Ben Johnson interview was his account of his trainer when he was a teenager selling him the idea of doping. He was told it wasn't really cheating as everyone else was doing it. Unfortunately it's a vicous circle.
On a different note, I'm impressed by Marco Pinotti's use of the word wancker, top work for an Italian, I'll forgive the misspelling. Wonder if he picked it up from Cav
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/david-w ... tador-case
Good article here.
""It's terribly sad because there are some great riders out there that don't want to dope and who are not doping. They are getting screwed. Your heart goes out to young riders who you believe in but you also think that they face a really difficult challenge in terms of ever finding out how good they are because as they climb that ladder they will meet more people who are doping and the battle becomes an unfair one."
All those that are looking for excuses for the dopers? How about the guys trying to do it clean.
Ban the dopers for life, no excuses.
And Bertie threatening to retire? boo hoo just do it.0 -
stfc1 wrote:Having said that, nothing in cycling pleases me more than Gilbert on the attack
Personally nothing in cycling pleases me more than riding my bike. Fast.
Preferably when it's not raining 0 -
gsk82 wrote:psittacosis wrote:what if a mischevious pixie came and sprinkled magical clenbuterol on his steak? what if? what if?
that was my initial response to this story. i'm sure there must be someone in pro cycling who has had a falling out with contador who has the cash to pay/ info to bribe someone from his former team to carry out such an act
[takes cover]
Or perhaps Astana got wind that he was going to leave and decided to ruin him
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None of the conspiracy theory stuff hold water because you'd have done him properly with a big dose of something. The amount found was in all likeliness not going to be found had they not used one of the most advanced labs. If it was a deliberate act to sabotage him, you'd have made sure it was detectable, and conclusive.
I agree with the many other posts wondering how he's so sure it was a particular steak, straws clutching.
Also +1 on the Pinotti post, love the use of wanker 0 -
dougzz wrote:None of the conspiracy theory stuff hold water because you'd have done him properly with a big dose of something. The amount found was in all likeliness not going to be found had they not used one of the most advanced labs. If it was a deliberate act to sabotage him, you'd have made sure it was detectable, and conclusive.
Far too obvious and open to the defense that it was. No, those involved in pro-cycling are far more machiavellian than that. A just detectable dose is what you would expect from someone who made a mistake with their programme. As detection technology improves, it would have turned up one day in a retrospective screen. Sit back, stroke your white cat and know that one day he will fall.0 -
It's all so obvious. When the news comes out you'll all exclaim "of course, why didn't we think about that".0
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ShinyHelmut wrote:stfc1 wrote:Having said that, nothing in professional cycling pleases me more than Gilbert on the attack
Personally nothing in cycling pleases me more than riding my bike. Fast.
Preferably when it's not raining
Well quite, and duly amended! Although I'm not that fast, personally.0 -
This argument does not hold water.Pross wrote:gsk82 wrote:psittacosis wrote:what if a mischevious pixie came and sprinkled magical clenbuterol on his steak? what if? what if?
that was my initial response to this story. i'm sure there must be someone in pro cycling who has had a falling out with contador who has the cash to pay/ info to bribe someone from his former team to carry out such an act
[takes cover]
Or perhaps Astana got wind that he was going to leave and decided to ruin him
Astana get loads of publicity and future funding from sponsors due to the fact that their current or past riders have won the tour.
They lose all this if they decide to get petty about the fact he is leaving to race for another team. I can't see this being in their best interests.Can I upgrade???0 -
The problem I have with a lot of these doping cases is that I believe that some of the cyclists concerned are actually innocent. That's not to say that they weren't being dosed with performance enhancing substances, but that they didn't know. The speed with which the food contamination
When this story broke one vaguely interested sports fan asked me why, if the teams claim to be so anti-doping, the teams don't do their own testing? The only answer I could give that wasn't too cynical is that the teams don't want to know it's happening. Of course it's still a little cynical in as much as it suggests that the teams are condoning it by turning a blind eye.0 -
GarethPJ wrote:The problem I have with a lot of these doping cases is that I believe that some of the cyclists concerned are actually innocent.
You can *believe* whatever you want. My uncle believed it was OK to have a w*nk on the bus. Though he did get into trouble for that.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
iainf72 wrote:GarethPJ wrote:The problem I have with a lot of these doping cases is that I believe that some of the cyclists concerned are actually innocent.
Can you give me an example?
Um... I actually remember a French guy (on a French team) being done then exonerated for something in 2002 but blow me if I can remember his name.
But this proves Iain's basic point.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Will Self?Le Blaireau (1)0
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Will Self pleasure. To meet you.
The dangers of poor punctuation.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
psittacosis wrote:Ban the dopers for life, no excuses.
FWIW I don't believe that that even banning for life will stop doping. People who cheat to win, at anything, simply don't believe that they will get caught. The win and / or the money, particularly the money, are what they are after and punishment doesn't really figure into the equation. People will kill someone for the stupidest of reasons with no reguard to the death penalty or life in prison. This is why I think that people pushing for lifetime bans are simply dreaming in thinking that it will help.
I recall that even in the early days of the TDF someone got caught taking a train instead of riding the race. Granted it's not doping(actually much more effective than doping)
but it shows that cheating has been going on since the dawn of time, if you will. Thinking that you have the answer to stopping something like that is pure fantasy.0 -
that is a counsel of despair, saying you cannot stop cheating so let them get on with it.
If the punishment was rigorous enough the cheating would stop.
The testers are clearly catching up with the cheats, no reason to back off now. Get high profile dirty riders and make examples of them.
Maybe a lifetime ban would be hard to get but a 10 year ban would be the same, i.e the end of a pro career.0 -
psittacosis wrote:that is a counsel of despair, saying you cannot stop cheating so let them get on with it.
If the punishment was rigorous enough the cheating would stop.
The testers are clearly catching up with the cheats, no reason to back off now. Get high profile dirty riders and make examples of them.
Maybe a lifetime ban would be hard to get but a 10 year ban would be the same, i.e the end of a pro career.
Sadly not true. Same argument used for death penalty in murder cases, yet countries with the death penalty have high murder rates.0 -
His uncle was a bus driver though 0
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So we are equating pro athletes with murderers now?0
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psittacosis wrote:So we are equating pro athletes with murderers now?
I'm not no. I was offering an analogy to suggest you can't through severe punishment change attitudes to breaking the rules.0
