Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

cajun_cyclist

frenchfighter wrote:

Love the way photo journos always bais their photos when they want to!
Getty

Just for a comparison.

Remember how everyone was content that the last Tour had NO doping!! :shock:

Cycling finally got it's act together, "it's at least cleaner now".... now what do we think if AC gets severely sanctioned and even if not?

frenchfighter

I know the B came out. My post was relating to Sherer's comment

dandrew

dennisn wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Both samples are positive.

I cannot see how he and his team will prove it was in the steak he ate.

I think he'll swallow a years ban.

Makes you wonder why these guys seem to want to come up with some excuse right away and then spout off about it? Why not a no comment until things are a bit clearer and you're starting to think straight again?

He's known since July so maybe he has thought about it

Bronzie

frenchfighter wrote:

What was Vino done for?

He had someone else's blood in his glorious calves. Most likely a mix up and he was transfused the wrong blood instead of his own.

Bakunin

Don't worry FF, Alberto will only be 29 if he gets two years.

Still in his prime.

Rodrego Hernandez

Kléber wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Ok excuse my ignorance but if he had blood doped (as suggested by many as the main reason for the clen showing) wouldn't that have been picked up in tests?

No. Reinjecting well-stored samples of your own blood can't be detected.

That's why Fuentes was able to work with so many riders for so long. Nobody could catch them, it took the police to burst into his clinic with a search warrant.

I'm pretty sure they can detect this now - something to do with the age of the cells in it.

calvjones

Love JB's quote

'Since 2007 Alberto has been recognized as one of the world's best cyclists, has proven his status in the top races, and has repeatedly given urine and blood with never an indication of foul play.'

Like this has ever proven anything except the tests are shit.

Maybe we should go back and start re-testing some of Bertie's blood. Do WADA still have it or has it been couriered to Damien yet?

skylark

Time to switch off the AC. Winter's coming.

aussiedave71

http://lostroadworld.blogspot.com/2010/ ... cally.html

iainf72

Here's the blood transfusion stuff in english

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5846/ ... sions.aspx

oscarbudgie

Kléber wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Ok excuse my ignorance but if he had blood doped (as suggested by many as the main reason for the clen showing) wouldn't that have been picked up in tests?

No. Reinjecting well-stored samples of your own blood can't be detected.

That's why Fuentes was able to work with so many riders for so long. Nobody could catch them, it took the police to burst into his clinic with a search warrant.

I believe one of the giveaways with blood transfusions (autologous or donor) is that they increase ferritin levels beyond 'normal' levels.

cajun_cyclist

Here is a reference to the "Plasticiser" story, uses that word in fact.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5846/ ... z112QDKnQn

If that is so, it's close to game over for me.

Okay, I note Ian72 just published the same link....I think.

vestanpance

iainf72 wrote:

ARD reporting there were plasticisers in Berts blood.

Like, evidence of blood bag use or something.

Any more on this? Plasticisers, such as phthalates are in pretty much every-one's blood due to their general prevalence in the environment.

Even if the lab detected high levels it doesn't really mean much as phthalate contamination is very common in the lab, and is hard to eliminate. Sources of contamination come from plastic sample bottles, and rubber seals on vials and instruments. Unless they were specifically looking for plasticisers and taking all the necessary precautions to prevent contamination, finding phthalates isn't really news.

Pokerface

Yes indeed. If - and a big if, they can prove that he had this plasticiser in his blood, and IF the UCI don't sweep it all under the carpet - then it will be game over for Alberto.



Any thoughts as to how ARD has all this info and no one else does? Just good investigative reporting? I'd be surprised if they made such claims without some sort of proof to back it up.

Kléber

iainf72 wrote:

Here's the blood transfusion stuff in english

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5846/ ... sions.aspx

Plasticisers get into the blood because of the flexible pouches blood is stored in. Basically the soft vinyl creases, bends, and flexes and this causes tiny amounts to come away from the pouch and mix with the blood.

You wouldn't get them when blood is stored in solid plastic containers.

IF, big if, this is the case then it's a very interesting development, clearly the authorities are monitoring for the signs of blood doping, even if they can't prove this.

DB100

[Are you quite sure of your calculations? Last time I checked there was only 1000ml in a L!
Also, it's not just a simple case of taking how much blood an average person has to calculate potential blood values. The actual amount of drug available to exert a pharmacological effect is known as the bioavailability and this can vary depending upon many factors including clearance rates and the volume of distribution. The volume of distribution can be significantly greater or less than the total volume of blood. See this link for help...http://aquaticpath.umd.edu/appliedtox/m ... edist.html

one important factor not mentioned yet is that the sample from AC was a urine sample and it is known that the majority of a dose (up to 80%) is excreted in the urine within 72 hours of a dose. So taking this into consideration is it a great surprise that so little was found in his urine sample?[/quote]

Thanks bsm, the reply was patronising and I work in the medical profession, read the F**king thing again, it was copied from another site, not my calculations. T**t

vestanpance

Abstract
A study of common laboratory equipment and components was performed in order to identify sources of contamination of phthalates prior to testing environmental samples for such compounds. A screening study revealed significant leaching from laboratory consumables, such as plastic syringes, pipette tips released maximum leachings of 0.36 µg cm-2 diethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP) and 0.86 µg cm-2 diisononyl phthalate (DINP), plastic filter holders produced maximum leachings of 2.49 µg cm-2 dibutyl phthalate (DBP) from polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE); specifically 0.61 µg cm-2 DBP from regenerated cellulose and 5.85 µg cm-2 dimethyl phthalate (DMP) from cellulose acetate and Parafilm® leached levels up to 0.50 µg cm-2 DEHP. In addition, a high-temperature bake-out process was found necessary to eliminate quite high levels of two phthalates present in a commercial bulking agent for pressurized liquid extraction.

donrhummy

His defense is not much different from Floyd's. His was originally beer. They also pointed out that he didn't test positive on any of the days prior. It was too miniscule an amount to matter. He'd get no benefit from using it that one day, etc.

Also, not saying he's guilty but Contador's defense and expert are the same as FuYu Li of Radioshack:
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=16821

The value that was found in Li’s sample, is extremely low. Ten to twenty times lower then a WADA/UCI laboratory must be able to detect, according to anti-doping expert Douwe de Boer:

“Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL, while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL. The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination. On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way.”

“I have no idea how the Clenbuterol came into my body. All I know is that I have never taken doping in my entire career”, said Fuyu Li. “My role at team RadioShack was one of a humble helper, nothing more. I am 31 years old and I know I could not move up to a leading role in the team, I was just extremely honored to be selected for this team and tried to do my job right..."

Douwe de Boer stated, “The extremely low value points in the direction of a contamination. Clenbuterol contaminations exist in food supplements and in meat. Clenbuterol is often used to improve the visible quality of meat. There have been several scandals in China, with Clenbuterol poisoning of people by eating heavily contaminated meat. My best guess would be that something like this caused Fuyu Li’s positive. I hope he will be treated fairly in his process in China.

bipedal

I refer you to my Fuyu Li post on page 18! If they ban Li I don't see how they can't ban AC

josame

Audrun acknowledges that clenbuterol has been used in the peloton in the past, but claims that its deliberate use by Contador was unlikely. “… because it is detectible,” he said, “it cannot be masked like other products. A pretender to the Tour does not use clenbuterol, and Contador did not win the Tour with it.”

from www.velonation.com/News/ID/5844/Contado ... z112eBijS4

cajun_cyclist

josame wrote:

Audrun acknowledges that clenbuterol has been used in the peloton in the past, but claims that its deliberate use by Contador was unlikely. “… because it is detectible,” he said, “it cannot be masked like other products. A pretender to the Tour does not use clenbuterol, and Contador did not win the Tour with it.”

from www.velonation.com/News/ID/5844/Contado ... z112eBijS4

Also, that article makes me wonder some why Bordry left at the time he did. There may be some added-on signficance to that. Maybe not too, I'm just thinking.

dougzz

Maybe people on the inside were in the know on this and that's why so many Saxo riders have jumped ship, maybe Fab had word?

stagehopper

sherer wrote:

FJS wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

ARD reporting there were plasticisers in Berts blood.

Like, evidence of blood bag use or something.

And absolutely butchering the UCI/Pat : http://www.sportschau.de/sp/layout/jsp/ ... #mbContent (in German)

roughly: Pat lied - they asked Pat yesterday about this case, and he simply answered he knew nothing about all this. And one day later this press conference. They accuse UCI of giving Contador time to come up with an explanation and wanting to hush it all up.
And yes, suggestions of own-blood-transfusion ('weichmacher' - weak-makers?) in a test 1 day earlier, again, according to their doping-correspondent, not yet made public to brush it all under the carpet... followed by again a couple of times clearly accusing Pat McQuaid personally of lying

Interesting. We all know the UCI wants a clean tour at all costs so seems they were willing to hush this up like they have been accused of doing in the past

The UCI have a duty to follow due process - which the timings suggest they have. They do not acknowledge questions re: failed tests as per that process. Sloppy journalism.

iainf72

Aldo Sassi isn't a believer

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8096574

NJK

I think the most likely scenario is that he was doing a blood transfusion on the rest day which contained clenbuterol which is why his clenbuterol levels were fine for the preceding days.

Nothing to do with the meat just a nice cover up story given to him by the UCI!

18month or 2 yr ban!

iainf72

I've sort of started switching back to Pierre mode, so I made you all a graph. I know you like graphs.

bsm2dj

DB100 wrote:

[Are you quite sure of your calculations? Last time I checked there was only 1000ml in a L!
Also, it's not just a simple case of taking how much blood an average person has to calculate potential blood values. The actual amount of drug available to exert a pharmacological effect is known as the bioavailability and this can vary depending upon many factors including clearance rates and the volume of distribution. The volume of distribution can be significantly greater or less than the total volume of blood. See this link for help...http://aquaticpath.umd.edu/appliedtox/m ... edist.html

one important factor not mentioned yet is that the sample from AC was a urine sample and it is known that the majority of a dose (up to 80%) is excreted in the urine within 72 hours of a dose. So taking this into consideration is it a great surprise that so little was found in his urine sample?

Thanks bsm, the reply was patronising and I work in the medical profession, read the F**king thing again, it was copied from another site, not my calculations. T**t[/quote]

If you work in the medical profession then maybe you should have seen the glaring error and be suitably informed to know the calculations you had copied were in fact wrong?

frenchfighter

So what happens now?

At the end of the day he is a supreme rider and this clen or whatever is a lightweight dope and serves very little indeed. He would still fly up the mountains, dominate the TTs and have an exciting riding style regardless. Same as Valverde, if he is banned, he will come back and clean up and provide interesting viewing.

iainf72

You seriously can't conceive he may have been using a battery of doping products, can you?

frenchfighter

No way. In my opinion there is absolutely nothing to suggest so.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5848/ ... e-bin.aspx