TOB Stage 3 *****Spoiler****
Comments
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timturpinfleck wrote:Tom BB wrote:Just looking through todays results, and Dan Fleeman of Raleigh was in 84th place 13 mins down.....would have thought today was right up his street. Been a pretty poor year for both Dan, and the team in general which is a shame.
It is a pity that Fleeman has had such a bad season, but it's still their first season and they can improve. Pleasing to see 3 Brits in the top ten today - just a pity the big boys from Sky have been such a let down.
How do you describe them as a let down? They have spent two days working hard firstly to earn the team a stage win and then to try to limit the yellow jerseys losses, that's cycling. Team tactics were poor but Geraint and Wiggo have ridden well.0 -
GC is over for SKY. The best cyclists in the World should be able to bury themselves and still finish in the top groups.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5660/ ... hopes.aspx
What is the point of turning up to a race and not racing.Contador is the Greatest0 -
GC is over for everyone except HTC. Sky still hold second place in case you hadn't noticed. Where's the criticism of Garmin/Cervelo/Saxo? Sky have raced as much as any team and had 3 riders in the race defining break on Sunday so it's a but bizarre to accuse them of not racing. Henderson got dropped on a 7km climb yesterday and Sky had to do all the chasing in the final 30km. I'm guessing you haven't seen the turns Wiggins and Geraint put in both on Sunday and yesterday? As I said at the end of stage 2, the tactics were questionable but no-one can accuse them of not racing. HTC on the other hand rode a perfect tactical race yesterday. I assume Tony Martin is crap as he lost a minute in the last km after burying himself for Albasini0
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I don't think ITV are helping by talking up the crisis in the team. But then I suppose they are probably laughing at their rival broadcaster having trouble winning the Tour of Britain.0
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Agreed they have raced - but once again they have been tactically awful.
What happened to Wiggins yesterday - was he called back to help the chase ? Wiggins made both the important breaks but ends up 6 minutes down on GC - they need someone new to call the shots as all year they've made questionable decisions in races.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Agreed they have raced - but once again they have been tactically awful.
What happened to Wiggins yesterday - was he called back to help the chase ? Wiggins made both the important breaks but ends up 6 minutes down on GC - they need someone new to call the shots as all year they've made questionable decisions in races.
I think I read on the Sky website that Bradley made the decision to drop back and help the chase. A poor decision in my opinion, but I guess it seemed like the right idea at the time.0 -
Maybe a face saver either for him or the DS - after having finished 1.16 down on stage 2 (did he stop for a coffee - I thought he was still on the front well inside the last km?) he'd look a bit silly if he ended up being in a position to be leading on GC but for those 76 seconds.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Maybe a face saver either for him or the DS - after having finished 1.16 down on stage 2 (did he stop for a coffee - I thought he was still on the front well inside the last km?) he'd look a bit silly if he ended up being in a position to be leading on GC but for those 76 seconds.
He dropped off the front with about 2km to go, was hardly able to put a turn in after holding Geraints wheel for 3km! I said straight after that stage it was a big mistake but FF's comments are ridiculous i.e. accussing them of turning up and not racing :?0 -
He is being paid a ridiculous amount and is supposedly a potential Tour winner. He should have the ability to not get dropped even if he puts some pulls in.
I imagine he has got the ability though and so the reason is more to do with motivation/desire. That is what annoys me more, or rather where my 'criticism' comes in. Given he has won nothing of note this year apart from a TT against UK riders, I would have thought he would like to have something to add to his palmares this year. So maybe he doesn't, maybe he can't - he can do whatever he likes, it has nothing to do with me. Just saying that he is not my type of rider.
Btw, has anyone got any footage of any of the races?Contador is the Greatest0 -
The ToB is a minor stage race being played out in dreadful weather conditions. Most guys aren't going to really race it 100% and you'll always get a handful of riders battling it out.
Sky made a tactical boo boo, but lets be honest, it's hard to beat HTC in this kind of race.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Given he has won nothing of note this year apart from a TT against UK riders, I would have thought he would like to have something to add to his palmares this year.
You mean aside from wearing the pink jersey in the Giro?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Is that figure from a reliable source?amaferanga wrote:Tom BB wrote:Just looking through todays results, and Dan Fleeman of Raleigh was in 84th place 13 mins down.....would have thought today was right up his street. Been a pretty poor year for both Dan, and the team in general which is a shame.
For a guy with an FTP of 6.43 W/kg he's not doing at all well....0 -
Bronzie wrote:
Is that figure from a reliable source?amaferanga wrote:Tom BB wrote:Just looking through todays results, and Dan Fleeman of Raleigh was in 84th place 13 mins down.....would have thought today was right up his street. Been a pretty poor year for both Dan, and the team in general which is a shame.
For a guy with an FTP of 6.43 W/kg he's not doing at all well....
That's odd. I'm sure it was 6.2 when I first read. Inflation?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Even so, it sounds way too high given the results he's achieved.DaveyL wrote:That's odd. I'm sure it was 6.2 when I first read. Inflation?0 -
DaveyL wrote:Bronzie wrote:
Is that figure from a reliable source?amaferanga wrote:Tom BB wrote:Just looking through todays results, and Dan Fleeman of Raleigh was in 84th place 13 mins down.....would have thought today was right up his street. Been a pretty poor year for both Dan, and the team in general which is a shame.
For a guy with an FTP of 6.43 W/kg he's not doing at all well....
That's odd. I'm sure it was 6.2 when I first read. Inflation?
Based on the comments by Hunter Allen on the Wattage forum.
It was 6.2 at first cos I did it from memory then corrected it :oops:
He's apparently got an FTP of 405 Watts and weighs around 63kg.More problems but still living....0 -
Pross wrote:How do you describe them as a let down? They have spent two days working hard firstly to earn the team a stage win and then to try to limit the yellow jerseys losses, that's cycling. Team tactics were poor but Geraint and Wiggo have ridden well.
They have been a let down because it's their home tour and they should be able to put a serious GB contender forward. I am not faulting their effort, but that resulted in both G and Wiggo being dropped just to put Henderson in the yellow jersey. Henderson was the best sprinter anyway and didn't need them to do all that work.
Stannard was bragging about how their quality showed at the nationals, but the GB riders who have performed the best in terms of results this week have been from the domestic teams.0 -
The way Wiggins and Thomas were dropped was not good. Burying yourself is one thing, but doing it just so you can lose the jersey on a small hill was not the cleverest thing. But that's sport, they'll learn.
It does highlight how they have a bunch of trainee director sportifs who are struggling to make their mark.0 -
Sky are currently second in the team standings behind Vaconsoleil, not bad considering they haven't turned up to race. I agree with Kleber regarding the DSs at Sky, they really need someone who has the experience and tactical nous if they want to move up a level. The problem is finding one that meets their ethical standards!0
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Wiggins and Thomas should know how to ride a race without someone in the team car telling them what to do. It's not like either of them are new to bike racing.Kléber wrote:The way Wiggins and Thomas were dropped was not good. Burying yourself is one thing, but doing it just so you can lose the jersey on a small hill was not the cleverest thing. But that's sport, they'll learn.
It does highlight how they have a bunch of trainee director sportifs who are struggling to make their mark.
I suspect it's more likely that either of them think they are in spectacular form at the minute and decided to work for Henderson. If Geraint had good legs, the ToB would suit him down to the ground as he's got a reasonable finish and can cope with the lumpy bits fairly well.0 -
Pross wrote:The problem is finding one that meets their ethical standards!
It's also odd how many people have bailed out of the team from the backroom staff. Makes you think there is something else going on.
I see they got fined for not turning up for the press conference.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Scott Sunderland - family reasons
Brian Nygaard - to get involved as a DS with the Schleck team.
Any others?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Bronzie wrote:
Wiggins and Thomas should know how to ride a race without someone in the team car telling them what to do. It's not like either of them are new to bike racing.Kléber wrote:The way Wiggins and Thomas were dropped was not good. Burying yourself is one thing, but doing it just so you can lose the jersey on a small hill was not the cleverest thing. But that's sport, they'll learn.
It does highlight how they have a bunch of trainee director sportifs who are struggling to make their mark.
I suspect it's more likely that either of them think they are in spectacular form at the minute and decided to work for Henderson. If Geraint had good legs, the ToB would suit him down to the ground as he's got a reasonable finish and can cope with the lumpy bits fairly well.
They probably just thought Henderson could hold his own over the relatively small climbs of the ToB. Letting someone else from the Stage 2 break attack was a big error though, Henderson wasn't that far behind at the time and most of the ground was made up on the descent.0 -
It's also about expectation, losing to HTC is nothing to be ashamed about. In the past a British team was lucky to qualify for this race.
As for the back stage stuff, I hear it's down to a few things. Yates isn't exactly Mr Smooth when it comes to working with others, a nice bloke at times but not necessarily the finest diplomat,especially when things go wrong. There are also cliques on the team with the core BC riders + management and the foreigners on the other side, normal since some go back a long way but it's not been addressed, some riders are getting favouritism. Next, the team attitude is a problem, established riders are finding it hard to be told how to ride the bike whilst at the same time they feel let down by other aspects, like tactical blundering.0 -
Ned Boutling's thoughts on this from http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/nedb ... h-drizzle/Sky targeted the Tour of Britain, second only to the Tour of France, as a major objective. The national team, on the national Tour.0 -
Kléber wrote:It does highlight how they have a bunch of trainee director sportifs who are struggling to make their mark.
Green kit, even greener director sportifs. Come guys have faith; It's all part of a bigger plan, Believe in better.
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Rabobank heavily aims to dominate the Eneco Tour, Saxobank focuses on the Tour of Denmark, etc. Nothing strange with a higher level of expectation for Sky at the Tour of Britain. Of course, it doesn't always work, but what happened at the Stoke stage. Henderson might still have won the stage if Thomas and Wiggins hadn't completely buried themselves, but would have finished in the break-away, and had a serious shot at the GC. Unbelievable why they treated their role into Stoke as a full-out lead-out train. Whether that was because of a (moronic) DS decision, or their own decision (avoiding the pressure of the GC, preferring to ride round the ToB as a training ride?), who knows.0
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Pross wrote:I assume Tony Martin is crap as he lost a minute in the last km after burying himself for Albasini
Porte
“I look forward to the climbs. I think it is going to be fun,” he said. “I have a good team here as well. The only problem is that the hills are so far from the finish line, so it makes it a little hard.
“That said, Albasini is in top form, it will be hard to dislodge him. And he has such a good team – Tony Martin is worth about five men himself. I will take it day by day, you just don’t know what is going to happen.”
Top rider that lad.Contador is the Greatest0 -
But he lost time after taking pulls for his team mate so why don't the same rules apply as for Wiggins and Thomas? 0
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Albasini can climb, he is a versatile rider. So having Martin pull hard was a good idea. Using up Wiggo and Thomas in support of flatlander Henderson was not exactly Guimard-esque.Pross wrote:I assume Tony Martin is crap as he lost a minute in the last km after burying himself for Albasini0
