FAO: Stupid people.
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all you need to know about modern religion is in the bible, i suggest you heathens read it, it might save your souls.0
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I watched a little of the More4 program, and I agree with what they are saying; we should sterilise all chavs.0
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[quote="yeehaamcgee
Wherever that came from is certainly a mis-translation at least, in one way.
Until surprisingly recently (of course I'm not talking the sixties here
) Christianity's "hell" was a cold place. Which also brings about some irony in the phrase "when hell freezes over".
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not quite, it was in Dante's divine comedies, or more specifically 'inferno where this was suggested. he was a 13th century writer. he simply speculated upon the 9 circles of hell, only the bottom most of these was frozen over. but yes i take your point, Dante himself has taken the bible and twisted it into what many people now believe.
(yeah i know i'm a geek)0 -
Wasn't the belief of a fiery hell already in existence by Dante's writings?0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:Wasn't the belief of a fiery hell already in existence by Dante's writings?
Don't have a clue what people thought before Dante. I assume fiery hell was what they believed though. His first 8 circles were fiery death, three headed dogs, general torture etc his final circle was the only one that was frozen.0 -
Meh, I thought you were a geek.0
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well in answer to that i found this
which is from a manuscript 120 years before dante showing fiery hell, so yeah you were right. If you're interested i found out it comes from the fact that the Gehenna rubbish tip outside Jerusalem constantly had a fire burning due to it being so big (the fact it was a rubbiish tip is where rot in hell comes from as well).0 -
I think it was Oscar Wilde who said: I may be going to hell but at least it'll be warm and i'll know people0 -
now I know Wikipedia is not a definite source, but it's the first thing I found...some other traditions also portray Hell as cold. In Buddhist, and particularly in Tibetan Buddhist, descriptions of hell, there are an equal number of hot and cold hells. Among Christian descriptions Dante's Inferno portrays the innermost (9th) circle of Hell as a frozen lake of blood and guilt,[2] But cold also played a part in earlier Christian depictions of hell beginning with the “Apocalypse of Paul,” originally from the early third century[3]; “The Vision of Drythelm” by the Venerable Bede from the seventh century[4]; “St Patrick's Purgatory,” The Vision of Tundale” or “Visio Tnugdali” and the “Vision of the Monk of Enysham” all from the twelfth century[5]; and the “Vision of Thurkill” from the early thirteenth century.[6]0
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is that someone getting their head twisted backwards?
how long before sheeps and yeeha started their advice corner?0 -
Fair do's I'm not claiming to be a theologian or anything. I did think this was mainly a christian debate but that's probably my ignorance showing through. :oops:0
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Hey, I dunno wither. I'm sure I heard or read somewhere that Christian hell was originally cold, but I might be wrong. Seems to be a lot of conflicting ideas.0
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My big problem with the Darwin program last night on 4 was that he used it as the prrof of no god, well at least a suggestion from it.
But really it's not its just proof that the bible isn't particularly accurate and has been taken way to literally by the respective religions. (remember that i'm not religous) so when he was talking to those children he sounded very much like he was jamming his veiw on them with relation to that,0 -
Right, this is my theory....
When I was at primary school I was taught how things were made and what they were made of. This was a very simplistic version of the truth, you couldn't say that it was wrong, it just wasn't as right as it could be. As I moved on through my school life I was told that what we learned last year, "while not being wrong" wasn't really correct and behold the new truth of the matter is "XYZ". This carried on all the way through to University. For example, you can't say that Newton's Laws of Motion are incorrect, they just aren't as accurate under certain circumstances as they could be, hence we got Special Relativity.
(Please bare with me, I am getting the the important point)
So basically, science, and the "truth" is only the best guess we have, given the data/experiences we have at any one time. We are only ever approximating the truth, all be it to a higher degree of accuracy, with each new discovery.
So with this in mind, if we work backwards, my opinion is that religion was only ever the first and worst guess at science. That's not to say that religion is wrong, it's just not a very accurate guess.0 -
Boy Lard wrote:So with this in mind, if we work backwards, my opinion is that religion was only ever the first and worst guess at science.
I like this. Nobody likes not understanding after all. "Who made that" needs an answer whether you've got the slightest idea or not. I guess the trick is to discard the old explanation when a better one comes along.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Indeed, from a pure scientific veiw its a very reasonable argument with the evidence in hand.
unfortunately the religous veiw has strongly changing goal posts
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Indeed, from a pure scientific veiw its a very reasonable argument with the evidence in hand.
unfortunately the religous veiw has strongly changing goal posts 0 -
Most annoying thing about religion and science is the cherry picking that goes on.
Evangellical christians have no problem with gravity despite it being a relativey weak theory and yet do have a problem with evolution even though this is a far stronger theory. Why? Simply because gravitational theory does not stomp all over scripture.
If it did, they'd be after gravity as well - spreading lies about genuine science, denying gravity existed, and claiming we are held to earth via godforce. They would also want godforce to be given equal coverage in the science classroom.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Indeed.. freeky.
I think in schools we should be teaching what is factually suportable. Everything else should be external or personal choice. I can remember assembly at primary school singing hyms i think forcing faith on children is wrong it's there choice and they should have it presented to them factually.0 -
id love to know the percentage of teens/young adults who are the same denomination as their parents.
somewhere close to 100% i would think.
And if you are sent to a faith school you have little or no choice. i studied judaism and islam in a very limited capacity, as in here are some other religions, are'nt they quaint?
(best thing about the whole RE school experience was getting to sing Man in the mirror in assembly!)
there is no way they have taken a step back and considered different religions and settled back on that same religion or even thought about choosing a different one.
imagine a devout catholic family's son converting to muslim because he thought it suited his beliefs better. they would be outcasts.
and for those that do step back and think about it, i would think would describe themselves as agnostic/spiritual.
or one step further aetheist.
fatih schools are dangerous places.0 -
psymon wrote:id love to know the percentage of teens/young adults who are the same denomination as their parents.
somewhere close to 100% i would think.
Mmm. Provided you ignore ones that don't follow a faith at all, that might not be far off. But I wonder how many kids actually do follow their parents? (My mum and dad were quality, they thought a church of scotland upbringing would be good for us, and I reckon it probably was, CoS aren't bad as faiths go. But eventually I reached an age when I could say "Look, thanks for that but it all seems like total balls to me, I don't buy it" and my dad went "Thank **** for THAT, now I can have a lie in on sunday.)Uncompromising extremist0 -
I agree that faith schools can be dangerous dangerous, and that forcing faith on children can be a bad idea. It is very rare that any of those doctrines ever promote acceptance and open mindedness - in fact it is often against their ethos.
That kind of devout, unquestioning following can lead to tension, friction, and violence.0 -
psymon wrote:id love to know the percentage of teens/young adults who are the same denomination as their parents.
somewhere close to 100% i would think.
And if you are sent to a faith school you have little or no choice. i studied judaism and islam in a very limited capacity, as in here are some other religions, are'nt they quaint?
(best thing about the whole RE school experience was getting to sing Man in the mirror in assembly!)
there is no way they have taken a step back and considered different religions and settled back on that same religion or even thought about choosing a different one.
imagine a devout catholic family's son converting to muslim because he thought it suited his beliefs better. they would be outcasts.
and for those that do step back and think about it, i would think would describe themselves as agnostic/spiritual.
or one step further aetheist.
fatih schools are dangerous places.
Legends0 -
See, I was the third (and last) child. And there was a large gap between my brother and sister and myself.Northwind wrote:But eventually I reached an age when I could say "Look, thanks for that but it all seems like total balls to me, I don't buy it" and my dad went "Thank **** for THAT, now I can have a lie in on sunday.)
By the time I was growing up, my folks had pretty much had enough of the whole "sunday school" thing
I think i remember going maybe a handful of times, and that was it.
For some reason though, the local chapel has "accepted" me as a member, whatever that means. i didn't ask for it, and made no effort on my part.
Awfully nice of them though.
Since I'm not a religious person, I do not have any desires to have a church/chapel wedding/funeral or whatever, but if the woman i'm marrying wanted one, I would not object - it means little to me so i would not be offended.
Same when i die. i would prefer a non religious do, but if the people that cared about me wanted a religious send off, then so be it. It would keep them happy, and would not do me any particular injustice.0
