FAO: Stupid people.
Comments
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joshtp wrote:psymon wrote:
of cource, you have to belive in a god in the fist place to belive that, and from what i can see, there is nothing to say there is no god, and a whole heap of evidence to say there is.
BTW, im a Jehovah's Witness, and pretty much all the info you would ever need about us can be found here:
Actually there isn't any real evidence to say there is, there is conjecture and so on, Just like any physics theory its a model that fits what we think we see. And the bible especially the new testiment was written by men and is open to interpretation.
I don't particularly believe, but I'd like the idea of there being a god, But I have a strong mathmatical/physics background which makes me also a bit skeptycal.0 -
really, absolutrely everything written here is down to personal view, becouse i cannot look around me and fail to see evidence of a creator.Thewaylander wrote:joshtp wrote:psymon wrote:
of cource, you have to belive in a god in the fist place to belive that, and from what i can see, there is nothing to say there is no god, and a whole heap of evidence to say there is.
BTW, im a Jehovah's Witness, and pretty much all the info you would ever need about us can be found here:
Actually there isn't any real evidence to say there is, there is conjecture and so on, Just like any physics theory its a model that fits what we think we see. And the bible especially the new testiment was written by men and is open to interpretation.
I don't particularly believe, but I'd like the idea of there being a god, But I have a strong mathmatical/physics background which makes me also a bit skeptycal.I like bikes and stuff0 -
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he didnt, man did, he gave us freewill, which was kind, and then we abused it.... shame really.psymon wrote:but if god is omnipotent why did he do it wrong in the first place?
and why not find a solution to fix the world.
should be easy.
another solution would leave Q's in the mind of humans and Angels that could lead to another rebelion, do it once, properly, and never have to do it again.
its all pretty deep, and a bit of a big one to explain over an internet bike forum. LOL
if you actually care what we say, and want to find some answers, listen and ask whatever Q's you want next time a JW knocks your door.I like bikes and stuff0 -
really, absolutrely everything written here is down to personal view, becouse i cannot look around me and fail to see evidence of a creator.
This is such an unsubjective comment it's defeats the point of a discussion, as it ignores any basis of fact, but for hope. I hope believe there is a god so therfore all i see is proof. It's terrible logic to be honest.
There are way better more balanced ways of suporting your belief.0 -
well not really, becouse, coming from the kind of scientifc background i have had, and with the scientific point of view i naturally take, i am always willing and open to new idea's and belifes if i see suitable proof. The problem is i have never met an Evolutionist that has been able to put together a good enough argument to persuade me from the belife i formed based on observation.Thewaylander wrote:really, absolutrely everything written here is down to personal view, becouse i cannot look around me and fail to see evidence of a creator.
This is such an unsubjective comment it's defeats the point of a discussion, as it ignores any basis of fact, but for hope. I hope believe there is a god so therfore all i see is proof. It's terrible logic to be honest.
There are way better more balanced ways of suporting your belief.
Im not saying Evolution is wrong, i just cant see it being right.I like bikes and stuff0 -
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If I really cared that much, I'd worry about people who come to the conclusion there's a supreme being from observing the world as it is.
But in truth, I don't care as long as they don't annoy me in any way
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Therein lies the cause of friction. You (and I) see the world primarily through logic.Thewaylander wrote:really, absolutrely everything written here is down to personal view, becouse i cannot look around me and fail to see evidence of a creator.
This is such an unsubjective comment it's defeats the point of a discussion, as it ignores any basis of fact, but for hope. I hope believe there is a god so therfore all i see is proof. It's terrible logic to be honest.
There are way better more balanced ways of suporting your belief.
But so what if someone else sees it a different way?
As long as nobody, ON EITHER SIDE forces their view on the other, then why worry about it?
People see things differently, it's just the way things are.0 -
whyamihere wrote:Take lions and tigers as an example. Different animals, yes? I saw a fantastic documentary a couple of months ago which featured a dissection of them. Turns out that under the skin, they're identical. Essentially, the only difference is the colouring of their coat, with lions being coloured to blend in to a desert environment, and tigers suiting a jungle environment.
There's a problem with that. A Big huge problem. See, this irrefutable evidence shows that Lions and Tigers actually live in the same area, which blows your coat colour theory clean out of the water.
Ahem. Meanwhile. I'm sure I've seen demonstrations of more fundamental differences between them, physiologically. One of them responds to catnip, and the other doesn't for example, but I can't remember which is which.0 -
The thing is, i see things in a Logical way too, and came to a different conclusion. People who take a purely emotional view really wind me up.yeehaamcgee wrote:
Therein lies the cause of friction. You (and I) see the world primarily through logic.Thewaylander wrote:really, absolutrely everything written here is down to personal view, becouse i cannot look around me and fail to see evidence of a creator.
This is such an unsubjective comment it's defeats the point of a discussion, as it ignores any basis of fact, but for hope. I hope believe there is a god so therfore all i see is proof. It's terrible logic to be honest.
There are way better more balanced ways of suporting your belief.
But so what if someone else sees it a different way?
As long as nobody, ON EITHER SIDE forces their view on the other, then why worry about it?
People see things differently, it's just the way things are.
But your right, i enjoy talking about my belifes, and if someone decides i actually have a point, and joins my line of thought, thats cool, but i would never push, or want to push my belife on another.
BTW, is it not a little unfair, having 5 or 6 all lobying against my line of thought, and me being the only one to reason the other side.... Can i call for back up?
I like bikes and stuff0 -
Is there life after death, that's the biggie really, believe in a god and it gives you hope doesn't it. Will I come back as an eagle or a maggot?
Belive in what you want, it's up to you, but what gets my goat is when people crash a car, killing kids, then say it was god's will.. er, no, it was because you were doing 80, weaving in and out of traffic, with no seatbelt on and kids on your lap..0 -
Hmmm, identical was a bad choice of words. It's expected that there would be some physiological differences between them, as a result of living in such different environments for so long (though Weebl does clearly show that they live in the same place, damn it). Let's say that under the coat they're very, very similar.yeehaamcgee wrote:whyamihere wrote:Take lions and tigers as an example. Different animals, yes? I saw a fantastic documentary a couple of months ago which featured a dissection of them. Turns out that under the skin, they're identical. Essentially, the only difference is the colouring of their coat, with lions being coloured to blend in to a desert environment, and tigers suiting a jungle environment.
There's a problem with that. A Big huge problem. See, this irrefutable evidence shows that Lions and Tigers actually live in the same area, which blows your coat colour theory clean out of the water.
Ahem. Meanwhile. I'm sure I've seen demonstrations of more fundamental differences between them, physiologically. One of them responds to catnip, and the other doesn't for example, but I can't remember which is which.0 -
Like I said before, I really admire someone like you who can have religion so close to their heart, but still accept other people's point of view. It is, sadly, such a rare thing to find on either side of the fence.joshtp wrote:The thing is, i see things in a Logical way too, and came to a different conclusion. People who take a purely emotional view really wind me up.
But your right, i enjoy talking about my belifes, and if someone decides i actually have a point, and joins my line of thought, thats cool, but i would never push, or want to push my belife on another.
I'm more than happy to talk with Jehovas when they come round (if I'm not busy doing anything else), but I will make it clear from the offset that they are not going to convert me, nor I them, but they're welcome to come in for a brew and just talk about things, which ultimately, neither of us KNOW are true.0 -
That just comes down to the old "God is either all powerfull but happy to make people suffer, or he's not all powerful".
I think it was Bill Hicks who was talking about how some creationists believe the earth is 6000 years old and fossils were buried by God as a test, i.e. just to f**k with our headds 0 -
If Adam hadent been a Wally, we would have been perfect and wouldnt have mucked things uppsymon wrote:why did he give us free will, we just f'ck stuff up.
he should just give us a cycle to work scheme....or bigger penises
Free will is cool, who'd want to be a robot with all choices made for them?!?!!? what if we all had to have Renault cars.... or Specialized bikes, life would be crap! I like bikes and stuff0 -
Don't think it was Bill hicks. He died in 1994 - and I'm not sure this was such a big "issue" back then, but I could be wrong.
I've heard another standup use that line anyway.0 -
joshtp wrote:
If Adam hadent been a Wally, we would have been perfect and wouldnt have mucked things uppsymon wrote:why did he give us free will, we just f'ck stuff up.
he should just give us a cycle to work scheme....or bigger penises
(Not aiming this at you specifically Josh, but just pointing out where I see the problems with it (just my beliefs, obviously). But surely god knew that Adam was going to mess up? So surely god made something wrong? Which suggests he's not omniscient or omnipotent.
More importantly, if adam and eve had kids, where did the next generation come from?! :shock:
"mummy, what are you doing......"0 -
im a bit odd.
im a militant atheist, however i find theology fascinating.
i like (some of) its teachings and values. (some are auful)
i love the iconography and architecture.
and the history of it amazing too.
the sagrada familia is a stunning and awe inspiring building. as is notre dame.
i am totally respectful of these places. dont wear a hat, take photos, speak quietly when visiting and nothing annoys me more than some scum stealing from a church or graffiting a grave yard wall.0 -
Thankyou, and i admire you for keeping an open mind, and being a reasonable person in a world where so many are stubborn, selfish gits. We dont expect to "convert" people, we only do it becouse : A.we belive god asked us to, B: We want to help people to have a happy life... IM probably the Happyest person i know!yeehaamcgee wrote:
Like I said before, I really admire someone like you who can have religion so close to their heart, but still accept other people's point of view. It is, sadly, such a rare thing to find on either side of the fence.joshtp wrote:The thing is, i see things in a Logical way too, and came to a different conclusion. People who take a purely emotional view really wind me up.
But your right, i enjoy talking about my belifes, and if someone decides i actually have a point, and joins my line of thought, thats cool, but i would never push, or want to push my belife on another.
I'm more than happy to talk with Jehovas when they come round (if I'm not busy doing anything else), but I will make it clear from the offset that they are not going to convert me, nor I them, but they're welcome to come in for a brew and just talk about things, which ultimately, neither of us KNOW are true. But if people dont want our sincere atempts at helping them, then hey... we'r fine with that.C. i actually enjoy talking to people about what i belive, its interesting to hear others points of view. I like bikes and stuff0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:Don't think it was Bill hicks. He died in 1994 - and I'm not sure this was such a big "issue" back then, but I could be wrong.
I've heard another standup use that line anyway.
I'm pretty sure it was. Possibl ythe smae show where he suggested using old people as stunt doubles "Oh my god, did you see that? Steven Seagal just kicked grandma's head clean off!" 0 -
joshtp wrote:he gave us freewill, which was kind, and then we abused it.... shame really.
And here's the glaring error in that statement:
You say, God gave us freewill and we screwed it up, right?
The thing is, your God is omnipotent, so before giving us freewill he would known we'd screw up; he is everywhere at every point in time so therefore any retribution/ramification are totally illogical. In God's "view" time is a constant, so start and end don't have the same meaning as they do to man, surely?
Why bother making men live a life to see if they will transcend to heaven or hell, when God already knows the result before they even exist? Is he that petty? No, he just doesn't exist.
Therefore, God knew what would happen before he even created humans. Before man made the mistake, by your logic, the consequences had already been dealt.
It just goes to show that the concept outlined above is purely a man-made scenario.
It can't be blamed on the mysticism of God; it's just poor story telling.
Think of it as a plot hole in a celestial soap opera.0 -
Just thought that I may as well actually share my beliefs on the subject of gods.
I don't believe in the gods proposed by any religion. That is, I don't believe that there's a dude with a beard floating around somewhere taking a particularly special interest in what happens on Earth, we're just not that special. I dislike the idea that most religions have of 'believe what we say or suffer eternal damnation'. If I am wrong (which I'm open to the possibility of), I would hope that having led a good life would be all that is required to get into the good version of the afterlife, rather than belief in what is written in one particular book rather than any of the others.
However, while I don't actively believe in this anthropomorphic view of a god which is held by organised religion, I am open to the idea of there being something else which is somehow beyond human comprehension, outside our observable universe, which could be described as 'God'. I wouldn't consider this to be an intelligence as such, but just some kind of external factor, which somehow managed to set the initial conditions for the universe to arise. That may not make sense, as a presence without intelligence setting initial conditions, but as I said, it's a presence which is beyond human comprehension, we can't expect to understand it. It could possibly be thought of as a kind of hard drive, containing a list of the laws of physics by which the universe evolved. Maybe. I don't know.0 -
of cource... thats fine.bails87 wrote:joshtp wrote:
If Adam hadent been a Wally, we would have been perfect and wouldnt have mucked things uppsymon wrote:why did he give us free will, we just f'ck stuff up.
he should just give us a cycle to work scheme....or bigger penises
(Not aiming this at you specifically Josh, but just pointing out where I see the problems with it (just my beliefs, obviously). But surely god knew that Adam was going to mess up? So surely god made something wrong? Which suggests he's not omniscient or omnipotent.
More importantly, if adam and eve had kids, where did the next generation come from?! :shock:
"mummy, what are you doing......"
well, if god used his abilty of forknowledge in this incetance, then it wouldnt have been freewill. If he knew that they were going to do something, they wouldnt have had the choice... he was alowing them to do whatever they wanted, and just letting them get on with it, if they did something wrong, he wasent going to stop them, but he did warn them not to. Basicly God warned them not to sin, promised to reward them if they were obediant and they still disobayed, he alowed them to use the free will he grantred them and so on....
as for the kids thing... well, sisters and mum arent the most atractive idea... but....I like bikes and stuff0 -
whyamihere wrote:Nope. Honestly, no scientific principle can be completely proven (I'm doing a physics degree, this is drilled into us hard).
i'll drill into you hard in a minute.0 -
as i said to Bails... he didnt know we would screw up, he could have chosen to know that, but he didnt, that would have removed the free will. We are not predestined, God can choose to know some things that will happen in the future, but he doesnt foresee everyhting, that would reomve the element of freewill.Grondel wrote:joshtp wrote:he gave us freewill, which was kind, and then we abused it.... shame really.
And here's the glaring error in that statement:
You say, God gave us freewill and we screwed it up, right?
The thing is, your God is omnipotent, so before giving us freewill he would known we'd screw up; he is everywhere at every point in time so therefore any retribution/ramification are totally illogical. In God's "view" time is a constant, so start and end don't have the same meaning as they do to man, surely?
Why bother making men live a life to see if they will transcend to heaven or hell, when God already knows the result before they even exist? Is he that petty? No, he just doesn't exist.
Therefore, God knew what would happen before he even created humans. Before man made the mistake, by your logic, the consequences had already been dealt.
It just goes to show that the concept outlined above is purely a man-made scenario.
It can't be blamed on the mysticism of God; it's just poor story telling.
Think of it as a plot hole in a celestial soap opera.I like bikes and stuff0
