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Is Andy a rider overrated?

victorponfvictorponf Posts: 1,187
edited July 2011 in Pro race
Just 8 victories in his career, the most important Lieja and 2 stages in the Tour (1 a Bertie gift, I remember when Lance did the same with Pantani, a true champion that didn´t accept the gift)

I think he hasn´t a very professional attitude, just riding for the Tour and no winning it.

Now he came to the Vuelta and lose 14 min in the first stage, when will be win a GT? When contador is retired.

I think is going to be the new Poulidor, he has to learn from Rominger, trying to win Giro and Vuelta too, and figth Contador in the Tour.


Sorry for my censored english
If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com
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  • calvjonescalvjones Posts: 3,850
    victorponf wrote:
    Just 8 victories in his career, the most important Lieja and 2 stages in the Tour (1 a Bertie gift, I remember when Lance did the same with Pantani, a true champion that didn´t accept the gift)

    I think he hasn´t a very professional attitude, just riding for the Tour and no winning it.

    Now he came to the Vuelta and lose 14 min in the first stage, when will be win a GT? When contador is retired.

    I think is going to be the new Poulidor, he has to learn from Rominger, trying to win Giro and Vuelta too, and figth Contador in the Tour.

    Sorry for my censored english

    Inglese muy bien comprar calvjones Espagnol!

    What would you have done differently in the 2010 Tour?
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • victorponfvictorponf Posts: 1,187
    calvjones wrote:
    victorponf wrote:
    Just 8 victories in his career, the most important Lieja and 2 stages in the Tour (1 a Bertie gift, I remember when Lance did the same with Pantani, a true champion that didn´t accept the gift)

    I think he hasn´t a very professional attitude, just riding for the Tour and no winning it.

    Now he came to the Vuelta and lose 14 min in the first stage, when will be win a GT? When contador is retired.

    I think is going to be the new Poulidor, he has to learn from Rominger, trying to win Giro and Vuelta too, and figth Contador in the Tour.

    Sorry for my censored english

    Inglese muy bien comprar calvjones Espagnol!

    What would you have done differently in the 2010 Tour?

    Don´t accept Contador gift in Tourmalet, no accept Contador frienship
    If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com
  • I think his biggest problem is that he's a little lacking in ambition. The greats of cycling wanted to win everything, Giro Vuelta TDF Classics.....

    Andy seems happy to go for the Tour every year but it appears as though to make up for the work his team do for him in the Tour he has to repay the favours over the course of the year.

    A personal grievance I have is how he seems to wait for Frank when he should reall ybe riding for himself.
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Not my type of rider but he can climb and does have an attacking mindset on the climbs when he wants to and has the ability to ride hard. If Contador wasn't around, he would be top dog for GTs that he tried in. The way he won Liege was very impressive, even if it looked like the chase wasn't all out.

    Re this Vuelta, his performance yesterday was most likely not because he hasn't got form, rather he is only there for one reason only - to cause damage in the mountains to help Frank. To do that best of all, he will save himself whereever necessary. Cancellara was also well down y'day, most likely for the same reason. Astana's domestiques were often well behind when it didn't matter. He doesn't want to win and he isn't looking for later season form.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • squiredsquired Posts: 1,153
    Personally I was quite disappointed at how AS rode going into the Tour. For example, he looked dreadful in California. When you are being paid mega bucks I think you need to be challenging for honours at multiple races.

    My guess is that the time loss yesterday may have been tactical. He is at the Vuelta to help Frank win. He might as well take it easy in the less complicated stages, then go at 100% in the ones where he can be useful to give Frank an advantage. With a healthy time deficit Andy can hopefully go up the road, then have Frank bridge up to him.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He said he lost time yesterday because he didn't have the legs, but hopes they sort themselves out later in the race.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Even he's there to ride for Frank it's got to be a mistake to announce that to the world and then throw away time early in the race. Surely having two possible cards to play makes it harder for the opposition - now he's just in the position of a super domestique.

    Should say I had no idea he'd lost time so if he was ill, crashed etc ignore that !

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • victorponfvictorponf Posts: 1,187
    Should say I had no idea he'd lost time so if he was ill, crashed etc ignore that ![/quote]

    I think he just don´t try to follow the bunch, he hadn´t a suffering face, and even Petacchi arrive 6 min before him!
    If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com
  • Gavin CookGavin Cook Posts: 307
    He may not of won the Tour yet but he´s without doubt the most entertaining of the tour at the moment. He´s more like the old school Hinault generation which is quite a refreshing change from the years of Indurain and Armstrong.
  • Why don't we ask ourselves at the end of the Vuelta?

    It may well be the world's best super-domestique has been posturing as a captain for a while... :lol:
    The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome
  • victorponfvictorponf Posts: 1,187
    Contador goes GT from the beach (Giro 2008)

    Andy goes GT to enjoy the beach (Vuelta 2009 and 2010)
    If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    I think his biggest problem is that he's a little lacking in ambition. The greats of cycling wanted to win everything, Giro Vuelta TDF Classics.....

    Andy seems happy to go for the Tour every year but it appears as though to make up for the work his team do for him in the Tour he has to repay the favours over the course of the year.

    A personal grievance I have is how he seems to wait for Frank when he should reall ybe riding for himself.

    Agree with this. I think it's a question of motivation rather than talent. He seems content to soft-pedal around every race that isn't the Tour or the Ardennes classics. It's a shame really.
  • BernardusBernardus Posts: 136
    victorponf wrote:
    Just 8 victories in his career, the most important Lieja and 2 stages in the Tour

    I think he hasn´t a very professional attitude, just riding for the Tour and no winning it.

    ...

    I think is going to be the new Poulidor, he has to learn from Rominger, trying to win Giro and Vuelta too, and figth Contador in the Tour.

    He's not my favorite rider, but I think he's certainly one of the most professional riders. He is willing to wait and aim for the biggest races and he will eventually win them (just like Poulidor did win a GT). You're focussing to much on winning, he's a 25 year old who has finished on the podium in a GT three times. If you say he has just 8 wins, you're basically saying that a stage win in the Sachsen Tour is more important than 2nd place in the French Tour.
  • victorponfvictorponf Posts: 1,187
    Bernardus 2º is the first of the losers
    If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,011 Lives Here
    He's not overrated.


    He is ridiculously good, and for such a young rider, knows how to peak at just the right time.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,674
    victorponf wrote:
    Bernardus 2º is the first of the losers
    Yeah, what a loser, I wouldn't settle for 2nd in the tour, would you?
  • nferrarnferrar Posts: 2,511
    Aye, things have moved on for Grand Tour riding since Lance started focusing on it. There's so much science around training these days that to maximise your condition for a Grand Tour it seems to mean compromising the rest of your season. Given the importance of the TdF in cycling it's not surprising that some genuine contenders (and their teams) are willing to make it their only real objective for the season. In some ways it takes a bit away from the sport as you only see the really big names fighting it out a few weeks per year but on the flip side you know (injury/illness aside) they'll be in peak condition and shouldn't be making excuses over racing too much.
    Not a massive AS fan but I'm glad at least someone is challenging Contador otherwise I wouldn't even bother watching the TdF, he's still young to (unfortunately for him though so is Contador).
  • BernardusBernardus Posts: 136
    victorponf wrote:
    Bernardus 2º is the first of the losers

    :roll:

    You have totally convinced me that Andy Schleck is an amateur. I mean he didn't even win the Tour. He should quit cycling, grow a beard and live in complete isolation for the rest of his life.
  • LangerDanLangerDan Posts: 6,132
    From the neck down, AS is GT -winning material. Not so sure he's quite there mentally.

    He seems like one of those riders who, to use Kelly's quote about Ardilla, "needs a right fookin' drillin'" from the DS to get him sufficiently motivated. Unfortunately, it looks like his new squad for 2011 could be more pandering, less "drillin'".

    Perhaps he should have signed with Lefevre for a year.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    LangerDan wrote:
    From the neck down, AS is GT -winning material. Not so sure he's quite there mentally.

    He seems like one of those riders who, to use Kelly's quote about Ardilla, "needs a right fookin' drillin'" from the DS to get him sufficiently motivated. Unfortunately, it looks like his new squad for 2011 could be more pandering, less "drillin'".

    Perhaps he should have signed with Lefevre for a year.
    You have something there but Riis is half the problem.
    They send a kid to ride the Giro and he gets 2nd in his first GT and then this family thing of I've got to ride for big brother.
    He showed the world he is a potential GT winner and all he has done since is mark time and got another 2 second place GT podium when big brother is not there. ??

    He needs some cut and thrust bike racing to teach him elementary stuff like the right time to change gears .
    Albert won't be riding the Paris-Nice next year (well he has proved his point there) and Andy should at least try it or at least do something to regain the respect we had after that first Giro.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • victorponfvictorponf Posts: 1,187
    Bernardus wrote:
    victorponf wrote:
    Bernardus 2º is the first of the losers

    :roll:

    You have totally convinced me that Andy Schleck is an amateur. I mean he didn't even win the Tour. He should quit cycling, grow a beard and live in complete isolation for the rest of his life.

    :lol::lol::lol:

    I just say that he is really good but if his attitude doesn't change he is going to just focus in the Tour to be second, and that's a pity whit his conditions.
    If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com
  • shinyhelmutshinyhelmut Posts: 1,351
    It's catch 22 isn't it though. The only way he'll have a chance of winning le tour is by focussing on the one race. If he doesn't he'll amass many lesser wins but always be criticised for not really trying to win la grand boucle.
  • Bernardus wrote:
    victorponf wrote:
    Bernardus 2º is the first of the losers

    :roll:

    You have totally convinced me that Andy Schleck is an amateur. I mean he didn't even win the Tour. He should quit cycling, grow a beard and live in complete isolation for the rest of his life.

    Hey Charley Gaul won the Tour and did just that! A better punishment is deserved, shurely?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • secretsqirrelsecretsqirrel Posts: 1,240
    LangerDan wrote:
    From the neck down, AS is GT -winning material. Not so sure he's quite there mentally.

    He seems like one of those riders who, to use Kelly's quote about Ardilla, "needs a right fookin' drillin'" from the DS to get him sufficiently motivated. Unfortunately, it looks like his new squad for 2011 could be more pandering, less "drillin'".

    Perhaps he should have signed with Lefevre for a year.

    I agree with this.

    I will be interesting to see how he gets along away from Riis, who comes across a fatherly, protective and controlling. By contrast AC has had quite a tough route the past few year, but has still come out of it with the big wins.
    With AS I get the feeling that he needs to 'man up', all this stropping and pouting after the chaingate stage didn't do much to endear him to me. But the guy undoubtedly has talent.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,011 Lives Here
    It's catch 22 isn't it though. The only way he'll have a chance of winning le tour is by focussing on the one race. If he doesn't he'll amass many lesser wins but always be criticised for not really trying to win la grand boucle.
    It's a misnomer that Andy only peaks for the Tour. He also gives the Ardenne classics a good go too. He always goes into those with good form. You can't win Liege the way he did without coming into it with real top form. His effort and belated bronze medal in the Olympics shows that too. Andy has that rare ability,like Freire, to be able to turn it on in the biggest races. That ability I consider an important talent, especially given the nature of cycling.
  • Stone GliderStone Glider Posts: 1,227
    A fine talented rider but very young. Please do not try to give "The Look" to AC until you have won at least half a dozen TdF's.

    Plenty of time to adjust and develop into the "next best thing".

    The problem seems to be that AC is nearly the same age and much more mature. To defend a GT title when your health is indifferent and your form far from what you desire is quite an impressive achievement. Still plenty of time.....
    The older I get the faster I was
  • nferrarnferrar Posts: 2,511
    Not sure why everyone questions his motivation, you don't get where he is without a f*ck load of training and commitment, let alone being willing to hurt yourself to extremes in a race. Thing is he's out there doing it, whereas we're all just armchair commentators pretending we know anything about what it really takes to be a top pro these days. It's like some people think he started his training during the Tour of California...
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,585
    I think you need to look at his resume again. He's come real close to winning the TDF a few times. Sure he's overrated. He's rated way higher over most of the other TDF riders.
    Other than AC, who else is going to challenge him(at the moment anyway)?
  • AndyRubioAndyRubio Posts: 880
    I can't imagine him being nicknamed "The Assassin" or "The Cannibal" or "The Killer".

    "Nice Guy Andy" would suit him.
  • plectrumplectrum Posts: 225
    I think his biggest problem is that he's a little lacking in ambition. The greats of cycling wanted to win everything, Giro Vuelta TDF Classics.....

    Andy seems happy to go for the Tour every year but it appears as though to make up for the work his team do for him in the Tour he has to repay the favours over the course of the year.

    A personal grievance I have is how he seems to wait for Frank when he should reall ybe riding for himself.

    I think his biggest problem is that he is a skinny tall guy with no 'haut' power. He is a lovely climber, very elegant in hsi form but lacks a punch and so when a more compact overall rider manages to stay with him then they have the advantage of the kick. Regardless if the more compact rider managers to stay with him then on the TTs the advantage is very much in facour of his competitors.

    Andy Schleck will never win le Tour de France, his nemesis Contador is just overall a far superior and complete package and in 2-3 years we may see a new breakthrough athlete who will become far superior.

    If they decide to make le Tour 60% mountainous then perhaps through his alpine endurance he may gain the edge but i cannot see ASO designing a course so biased.

    Riis wins ..... it all seems as if Schleck was calling the shots by realisign his ambition but really it seems as if this is just directed from the ego of his brother and father who again are blinkered by their own limited ambition.
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