Weight training
Comments
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Downing in the ToB commentary noted that Greipel "doesn't ride his bike only does weights in the winter" (probably shouldn't put that in quotes cos it's based on my dodgy memory)
This has been discussed before..."And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale0 -
That is some solid lifting dan_cup!0
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Dan Cup - How come you squat more than you can deadlift?
(All elite athletes follow strength and conditioning programs)
Why tidy the house when you can clean your bike?0 -
NJK wrote:Regarding Rowing i heard each stroke is the equivalent to approx 100kg bench press which is significantly more force than the 18-25kg each leg required for endurance cycling as has been quoted.
Well the exercise most similar to rowing is the Clean and Jerk.
At race pace it is like lifting 25-30kg 36 to 40 times per minute, with both legs. so 15kg per leg max.
The stroke is much longer than the 34-35cm you get in cycling as well since the leg is pretty much fully compressed and extended in each rowing stroke.
One of the biggest problems I had when beginning to cycle was that my heart and lungs couldn't get a good workout, but my legs would be absolutely destroyed by pedaling 200 watts for an hour.
200 watts on the rowing machine was a warm up, but I was used to using almost my whole body to produce the power, not just my legs! it was quite an eye opener to just how strong cyclists legs are!0 -
Mr Dog wrote:Dan Cup - How come you squat more than you can deadlift?
(All elite athletes follow strength and conditioning programs)
I have no idea I just cant keep hold of the bar so I thinks its confidence thing.
my best at 6 reps is 120 deadlift and Ive managed 150kg on the squat but that was last year when i was trying to increase muscle, its all different no the biking is here.
As a guide to see how im doing with the biking how does a 41miler @ 18.4 mph average sound?
http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-kingdom/carlisle/300128563089819047
also done a 46.5miler @ 16.8mph av but that was a hillier ride
http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-kingdom/carlisle/9571284664270955610 -
Dan cup - at the risk of teaching granny to suck eggs - you do use the opposing grip for the deadlift dont you - one hand palm forward, behind the bar and one hand palm backwards infront of the bar. its also possible to train the various parts of a deadlift seperately.
There are some useful articles on stronglifts (google it) for people who (despite the mixed recommendations about weightlifting and cycling) want to challenge themselves in the gym.
My personal feeling is that for me its worth lifting in the off season and after years of doing 3 x 12 or 8 reps Last winter I worked up to lifting as few as 4 reps for legs and back. I didn't get bigger or heavier but I really felt good on the bike and turned out my best test figures ever at a lab test in MArch.
When I asked Emma johansson (silver after Cooke at Olympics) what her fantastic improvements were due to she said - weight lifting off season - really heavy - 2- 4 reps.0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM
Obviously it's only people who have no idea about cycling who do weights.0 -
only when he wasn't a competitive cyclist. indeed he had to go to great lengths to lose the bulk and stop weights when he decided to make a comeback to professional cycling.neilo23 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM
Obviously it's only people who have no idea about cycling who do weights.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
only when he wasn't a competitive cyclist. indeed he had to go to great lengths to lose the bulk and stop weights when he decided to make a comeback to professional cycling.neilo23 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM
Obviously it's only people who have no idea about cycling who do weights.
I assumed that this video was from the off-season in winter, not from his "break". But now you come to mention it, he does look a little bit too much like Rambo in this video to try and have to get rid of the bulk within a couple of months.0 -
dan_cup wrote:Mr Dog wrote:Dan Cup - How come you squat more than you can deadlift?
(All elite athletes follow strength and conditioning programs)
I have no idea I just cant keep hold of the bar so I thinks its confidence thing.
Chalk works wonders - buy it in any outdoor/climbing shop. Adds about 10kg to what I can hold onto comfortably in a deadlift (90kg).0 -
Hi LJAR,LJAR wrote:The stroke is much longer than the 34-35cm you get in cycling as well since the leg is pretty much fully compressed and extended in each rowing stroke.
One of the biggest problems I had when beginning to cycle was that my heart and lungs couldn't get a good workout, but my legs would be absolutely destroyed by pedaling 200 watts for an hour.
200 watts on the rowing machine was a warm up, but I was used to using almost my whole body to produce the power, not just my legs! it was quite an eye opener to just how strong cyclists legs are!
Totally irrelevant but in general rowers will tend to have stronger legs than endurance cyclists. Remember what the definition of strength is. Many on this forum will have stronger legs than Alberto Contador or Andy Schleck (high leg strength not relevant for them) but none will be nearly as powerful aerobically.
How are you measuring power in rowing and in cycling? I would suspect possible accuracy issues.
Due to the physical nature of the rowing movement it is usually not possible to produce as much power as it is on a bicycle (either anaerobically or aerobically) which is better suited to producing power particularly over durations lasting several minutes or longer.
In actual fact cycling is extremely well suited to producing power and if one were to sit down today and design a human powered device to maximize sustainable power output it would be extremely similar if not identical to the crank system of the bicycle. Just before anyone says it, no adding arm cranks will not work and would be counterproductive to sustainable aerobic power output - though if it could be coordinated then in theory yes more power could be produced briefly with arm cranks added.
Murr X0 -
ut_och_cykla wrote:Dan cup - at the risk of teaching granny to suck eggs - you do use the opposing grip for the deadlift dont you - one hand palm forward, behind the bar and one hand palm backwards infront of the bar. its also possible to train the various parts of a deadlift seperately.
There are some useful articles on stronglifts (google it) for people who (despite the mixed recommendations about weightlifting and cycling) want to challenge themselves in the gym.
My personal feeling is that for me its worth lifting in the off season and after years of doing 3 x 12 or 8 reps Last winter I worked up to lifting as few as 4 reps for legs and back. I didn't get bigger or heavier but I really felt good on the bike and turned out my best test figures ever at a lab test in March.
When I asked Emma johansson (silver after Cooke at Olympics) what her fantastic improvements were due to she said - weight lifting off season - really heavy - 2- 4 reps.
thanks for the info I will take a look, I do you the opposing grip you mention once I get upto 90kg as my palms get sweaty. Chalk might be a good idea as mentioned in another post.0 -
Murr X,
Rowers do tend to be a hell of a lot bigger than our avg cyclist, but I can only relate my experience which was that my legs couldn't hack it but my heart and lungs could.
Power was measured on a Concept 2 ergometer and a powertap.
Louis0 -
Chalk is good, wraps take you into another relm. ( don't clean with them! ).
Whilst comparing sports biomechanically is interesting, rowing has as much to do with cycling as football has to rugby.
I enjoy many sports at varying levels of competency and use them to comlement one another. I would suggest if a you want to excel at cycling follow a specific program, exclusively.
Enjoy whatever you do. 8)Why tidy the house when you can clean your bike?0 -
The way I see it, bulking up muscle that isn't efficient for cycling will only serve to weigh you down. Just ride hard. OK I'm a noob but that's how I see it.0
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Dmak wrote:The way I see it, bulking up muscle that isn't efficient for cycling will only serve to weigh you down. Just ride hard. OK I'm a noob but that's how I see it.
Why do some people seem to think that by pumping a bit of iron that they will end up looking like Arnold? Never gonna happen. Never gonna happen any more than "just ride hard" will turn you into another AC or LA or whomever. It's way too simplistic, this "just ride hard" thing, and thinking that a little extra muscle is going to "weigh you down" is equally ludicrous.0 -
I'll take a generalisation with a side order of inaccuracy please. Hold the mayo."And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale0 -
ut_och_cykla wrote:My personal feeling is that for me its worth lifting in the off season and after years of doing 3 x 12 or 8 reps Last winter I worked up to lifting as few as 4 reps for legs and back. I didn't get bigger or heavier but I really felt good on the bike and turned out my best test figures ever at a lab test in MArch.
I would agree with this. I've just got back into lifting after a year or so away from doing it properly. In the past I've mainly done 1*20 or 3*10. These worksouts always destroyed me and the thought of even riding a bike for a few days after an intensive legs session would make me sick. However, at the moment I'm working up to a top set of 5 reps just short of failure, once per week. Doesn't seem to be hampering the riding at all. The big caveat is that I'm not doing the lifting to improve my riding; I'm doing it as I like lifting weights.0 -
One of my best friends is a body builder.
More of an ex. body builder but he still trains and pushes weights mere mortals cannot believe. At his peak he was just under 18 stone and 5' 7". Here he is pictured -
http://sportivephoto.thirdlight.com/vie ... d=13365731
But here is the rub, he is now down to 12 stone on his bike and climbs like a goat as his power to weight is stunning. Literally blows us all out the water. He can sprint like Cav too. Serious power when required. Top man to ride with and a great, great friend. His knowledge of fuel and energy is mind blowing.
We met the Rapha boys the other week as they live around the corner and people said he had to be 17 stone, but no, 12 stone of pure power. He falls into the realms of paradox as you cant believe someone that big can be that light, but it has to be the fact he has no body fat at all.0 -
Thanks LJAR,LJAR wrote:Murr X,
Rowers do tend to be a hell of a lot bigger than our avg cyclist, but I can only relate my experience which was that my legs couldn't hack it but my heart and lungs could.
Power was measured on a Concept 2 ergometer and a powertap.
Louis
Would you consider yourself more trained in rowing or cycling?
MurrX0 -
I could believe it. Most amateur bodybuilders especially those which compete or have competed will usually have a much greater knowledge in nutrition and of the human body than all but a handful of cyclists will.bristolpete wrote:He can sprint like Cav too. Serious power when required. Top man to ride with and a great, great friend. His knowledge of fuel and energy is mind blowing.
Murr X0 -
Murr X wrote:
I could believe it. Most amateur bodybuilders especially those which compete or have competed will usually have a much greater knowledge in nutrition and of the human body than all but a handful of cyclists will.bristolpete wrote:He can sprint like Cav too. Serious power when required. Top man to ride with and a great, great friend. His knowledge of fuel and energy is mind blowing.
Murr X
Yes, but absolutely the worst type of training to follow for any athlete.0 -
This week's Cycling Weekly has an article on bone mineral density (BMD) and cycling which is interesting.
It claims that research conducted on pro cyclists with an average of 22 - 25 hours p/week on the bike have between 9 and 18% less BMD than a sedentary control group.
It says that other studies on MTB'ers do not show this same loss.
To overcome this it suggests exercise with high muscular and impact (gravitational) loading e.g. running, gymnastics (eek!) and weight training
Obviously, most of us on here i'd imagine, do not do anywhere near that kind of volume on the bike but it may be one of the reasons that many pro's do weight training.0 -
scapaslow wrote:This week's Cycling Weekly has an article on bone mineral density (BMD) and cycling which is interesting.
It claims that research conducted on pro cyclists with an average of 22 - 25 hours p/week on the bike have between 9 and 18% less BMD than a sedentary control group.
It says that other studies on MTB'ers do not show this same loss.
To overcome this it suggests exercise with high muscular and impact (gravitational) loading e.g. running, gymnastics (eek!) and weight training
Excellent point. This is an area which have a fair bit of experience in.
I like many elite (and not so elite) cyclists suffered from osteopenia and borderline osteoporosis in the spine and hips. This was only discovered upon undertaking a DEXA scan which showed the condition in me at a young age and had not affected other family members who were how can I put it nicely, less active.
This is a very real and very common issue with cyclists which most do not want to believe may be happening to them...
I do have posts on this forum from a while back which go into more detail which you may want to check out.
The reality is that few do as it will hinder cycling performance, and I am unconvinced it will help with BMD when already training in large volumes and may instead just add to the physical stress from endurance training. But I may be wrong, however I was very often training with weights especially in the winter months and it was not good enough for me.scapaslow wrote:Obviously, most of us on here i'd imagine, do not do anywhere near that kind of volume on the bike but it may be one of the reasons that many pro's do weight training.
Murr X0 -
Cyclocross (and the training for cyclocross) would be a far better choice for addressing BMD concerns than weighlifting.0
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dennisn wrote:mclarent wrote:I'll take a generalisation with a side order of inaccuracy please. Hold the mayo.
If you're refering to me I would ask - let's have your ideas on the post from "Dmak".
That was my thoughts - I was agreeing with you
"And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale0 -
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Murr X wrote:Thanks LJAR,
Would you consider yourself more trained in rowing or cycling?
MurrX
At the time I was much better trained in rowing than cycling - so of course specificity was amply demonstrated.
But given how leg heavy rowing is as a sport I was still shocked at the difference. I put it down to the shorter stroke length and higher cadence at the time.
That coupled with only using on leg per stroke whereas in rowing they are both firing at the same time, followed by a short recovery period.
What surprised me was how much my legs hurt. I was barely sweating or breathing hard, but I couldn't pedal any more - very strange.0
