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5 months of power data

amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
Bored at work today so thought I'd review my power data since I started training with power back in March. This is also my first year training properly and racing.

Well I say training properly, but it doesn't seem to have resulted in much improvement....

I've tested my FTP a few times, but its been fairly static rising only about 10 Watts since April. I haven't specifically tested for shorter durations so I'm going off efforts mostly from races.

5 sec: peak in April, equalled in July == no real improvement
20sec: peak in July ~80W above previous peak == steady trend of improvement since April
1min: peak in May, ~40W above July peak == no real improvement
5min peak: peak in June/July only 10W better than April == no real improvement
10min peak: peak in April/May == no real improvement
20min peak: peak in July only 3W more than April == no real improvement
30min peak: peak in May, but almost equalled several times in June/July == little bit of improvement

Now, I haven't been testing specifically so it may be that I can actually churn out more Watts now than back in April, but I had kind of hoped to see more of a general trend of improvement. Interestingly I seemed to go backwards at the start of June after doing a couple of very hard sportives, one of which did me in for a good week afterwards.

I've done some power profiling and my 5min and 60min powers are good for the level I race at, but my 5s and 1min are very average. That fits with the type of training I've been doing - not enough L5/L6/L7.

How does this compare with what you see? Am I wasting my time looking at these since I haven't been formally testing? This year for me has been a great learning experience even if I haven't improved as much as I'd hoped, which should set me up nicely for the winter and next year.
More problems but still living....

Posts

  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    5sec
    5s.JPG

    1min
    1min.JPG

    5min
    5min.JPG

    10min
    10min.JPG
    More problems but still living....
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Looking at the graphs, I'd say they're not much use as you don't have enough actual 1 and 5 minute efforts.

    The variation between your 1 minutes across different rides is not very high, which suggests you very rarely get anywhere near it. For example my best 1 minute is ~650, yet in any normal ride including hard races and focussed training on courses with 1 minute hills I rarely hit more than 525-550, and in club runs etc. I'll be at 450. Huge differences from what happens when I sit down to do a focussed 1 minute effort. That 1 minute effort generally takes 10-20minutes to recover from.

    The same with 5 minutes, although I more commonly hit 90% of the my max ~380 in a club run - we race hills vs 438 when testing.

    With 60 minutes, again, how often do you actually do 60 minutes all out without interuption? It's very sensitive to even a small amount of being stopped from putting the power down.

    So I would say without testing your numbers are unlikely to be genuine, so you'll need to look at other info to decide if you've improved.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Even if the numbers don't represent my actual peaks, would you not still expect peak powers from races to improve through the season?

    I agree with you though - I need to start testing properly. 60 minutes without interruption is nigh on impossible around here though. The longest stretch of road nearby that doesn't have either junctions or traffic lights or downhills only takes about 15 minutes. I'd like to know how people do full 60 minute tests on the road in the UK other than on TTs.
    More problems but still living....
  • JaegerJaeger Posts: 439
    Has your weight changed through the season? You might be putting out same wattages for less kg?
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Not really. About 68kg +/- 0.5kg since March.
    More problems but still living....
  • doyler78doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    amaferanga wrote:
    Even if the numbers don't represent my actual peaks, would you not still expect peak powers from races to improve through the season?

    I agree with you though - I need to start testing properly. 60 minutes without interruption is nigh on impossible around here though. The longest stretch of road nearby that doesn't have either junctions or traffic lights or downhills only takes about 15 minutes. I'd like to know how people do full 60 minute tests on the road in the UK other than on TTs.

    I use 60 min Normalized Power. I have found to be consistent with what my 20 min power & 28 day power distribution drop off point. The only thing that disagrees with it is the CP chart in GC which I think overestimates it by upwards of 10 watts. If I try and do a 20 min effort at the GC CP point I find I can barely get to the end of that let alone hang on for 1 hour.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I think if you did proper testing that you rested well for you may well surprise yourself.
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    amaferanga wrote:
    Even if the numbers don't represent my actual peaks, would you not still expect peak powers from races to improve through the season?

    Not especially, races you do what you have you to do... it's possible that what you have to do is just a lower proportion of your maximum. It's rare that a 1 minute effort is decisive and you hit anything close to your max 1 minute, in races it's the accumulated pain of those multiple 1 minute efforts which hurt you and your fitness change is going to be shown there. ie you're more able to still put out the required watts in the later part of the race.

    And even then imagine a typical race situation, you're gapped at the start of a hard rise, you have to sprint to get back on - when less fit it took you a minute, now it takes you 50seconds, your max minute power in the two situations is likely the same because you got to freewheel after those 50seconds as you were back tidily on a wheel.

    NP for the entire race will likely show changes, but these short durations I don't think so.
    amaferanga wrote:
    I'd like to know how people do full 60 minute tests on the road in the UK other than on TTs.

    I do them in places where I have to slow down, turn, go down hills etc. etc. If the course is consistent then the impacts cancel out certainly you may not hit the same absolute max wattage as if you were riding around an oval, but the consistency of the test, the more interesting the riding, the fact I actually produce more watts under such varied conditions and the fact the resulting FTP better reflects the actual conditions I ride in all mean I much prefer.

    For me using a figure obtained from a completely flat isopower 60 minute effort is more inappropriate than using one from a variable route, because variable routes replicate the conditions I actually ride. Just like you can't use a trainer hour for outdoor riding, I don't see how you can use other different situations.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    amaferanga wrote:
    Even if the numbers don't represent my actual peaks, would you not still expect peak powers from races to improve through the season?

    I agree with you though - I need to start testing properly. 60 minutes without interruption is nigh on impossible around here though. The longest stretch of road nearby that doesn't have either junctions or traffic lights or downhills only takes about 15 minutes. I'd like to know how people do full 60 minute tests on the road in the UK other than on TTs.

    Interesting that, if you remember I asked Bhima the exact same question when he posted his exceptional power figures. :roll:
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Interesting that, if you remember I asked Bhima the exact same question when he posted his exceptional power figures. :roll:

    Only difference is my power figures aren't exceptional. And I can back everything up with Garmin .tcx files :wink:

    (Just did a race with 1 hour NP equal to my FTP estimate :D)
    More problems but still living....
  • I'd suggest some performance tests that you can readily replicate, such as a shorter TT (e.g. 10-mile) and perhaps a maximal aerobic power test.

    Then you'll be able to answer the question as to whether you are actually training as well as you think you are.

    Sprint power, while much easier to test since it doesn't need much road, responds very well to freshness and motivation, so you'd need to make a judgment as to whether it matters enough to back off training a lot in order to perform such tests.
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Yesterday I did my highest ever 10 - 30s at the end of a 1 hour race that had a NP equal to my FTP. I think that makes it pretty clear I need to do some proper testing.

    This year my training has been semi-structured compared to my normally completely unstructured approach. I am planning on being fully structured for next year, including regular testing. Might even get a coach if the accountant will approve it, though she won't let me have a new bike so I'm not too optimistic of my chances.
    More problems but still living....
  • jibberjim wrote:
    Looking at the graphs, I'd say they're not much use as you don't have enough actual 1 and 5 minute efforts.

    +1

    anyway, I can see a average gradual upward trend there. I think the testing is actually training too so the more you test the bette ryou get.
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