Ow ow ow my knees

2

Comments

  • vorsprung
    vorsprung Posts: 1,953
    I've had a touch of knee ache the last couple of weeks

    I wonder why?? :D
    Audaxing Blog - Long Distance Cycling
    follow on twitter-c.png
  • holybinch
    holybinch Posts: 417
    Welcome to the club.
    I'm due to see a knee specialist.
    Actually, I've been due to see him for a couple of months, but my work commitments (crazy hours at the moment, the proof being how little I post here) and his work commitments (him working only 4h/week, on Tuesday PM) have prevented the meeting from happening.

    For me I think it was either/or: overtraining, a wrong position on the commuting bike, and old work shoes which were slightly hurting my foot and forcing me to walk "differently".
    And of course, a sprain 15 years ago that never healed perfectly.

    It was so painful (and grinding) that I had to stop cycling for 2 months before being back to normal. Or at least, not accutely painful.
    Now, I have a new commuter, and the pain is still latent, but it's nowhere as bad.
    My position on this bike is the same as on the Perfecta, I've ditched my old shoes, and I'm ramping up training progressively, to avoid muscle imbalance, as described by JG.
    I'm also doing a lot more stretching than before as well.

    I'll see what the specialist says, hopefully next week, and I'll post an update, but in the meantime my advice would be not to overdo it, to check your position (or have it checked) and to do a lot of stretching. A bit of rest can't hurt as well :)
    FCN 4(?) (Commuter - Genesis Croix de Fer)
    FCN 3 (Roadie - Viner Perfecta)

    -- Please sponsor me on my London to Paris ride --
    http://www.diabeteschallenge.org.uk/cha ... n_to_paris
  • mickbrown
    mickbrown Posts: 100
    edited August 2010
    Sounds like a maltracking patella, which is what I had. My cartilage was also damaged (football injury) Had an arthrosocpy to clean that up and whilst he was in there and unbeknown to me the surgeon did a lateral release.

    I read up later and found that that type of surgery should be a last resort and that phsio should sort out any maltracking problems.

    Check your VMO muscle fires up. Its the one just above your knee and to the inside of your leg. If that isn't firing correctly your IT band can pull the kneecap outwards.

    Also do a google for IT band stretches and VMO strengthening.

    Bizarrely a hypnotherapist eventually sorted mine out, but that's a whole other story.

    EDIT - just read your bit about hyperextending - again this can happen with a weak VMO.

    Everything looks to be pointing to that.
  • davis
    davis Posts: 2,506
    dondare wrote:
    Glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, fish oil, celadrin, rose-hip extract and various other supplements can help reduce cartlidge damage and joint inflamation.

    I like the idea of lubricating your joints through diet, but I've always been a bit wary of these new-fangled supplements (yes, I know). I prefer food that's, you know, food. Are the any decent sources available in food besides oily fish (which I eat loads of)?

    I'm desperately hoping beer and curry are recognised sources...
    Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    davis wrote:
    dondare wrote:
    Glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, fish oil, celadrin, rose-hip extract and various other supplements can help reduce cartlidge damage and joint inflamation.

    I like the idea of lubricating your joints through diet, but I've always been a bit wary of these new-fangled supplements (yes, I know). I prefer food that's, you know, food. Are the any decent sources available in food besides oily fish (which I eat loads of)?

    I'm desperately hoping beer and curry are recognised sources...

    I seem to remember that glucosamine is made from the shells or prawns. You could try eating them.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    mickbrown wrote:
    Sounds like a maltracking patella, which is what I had. My cartilage was also damaged (football injury) Had an arthrosocpy to clean that up and whilst he was in there and unbeknown to me the surgeon did a lateral release.

    I read up later and found that that type of surgery should be a last resort and that phsio should sort out any maltracking problems.

    Check your VMO muscle fires up. Its the one just above your knee and to the inside of your leg. If that isn't firing correctly your IT band can pull the kneecap outwards.

    Also do a google for IT band stretches and VMO strengthening.

    Bizarrely a hypnotherapist eventually sorted mine out, but that's a whole other story.

    EDIT - just read your bit about hyperextending - again this can happen with a weak VMO.

    Everything looks to be pointing to that.

    I would completely agree with you but for the fact that I was told to do strengthening exercises for the VMO as a kid (aged 12-ish), and have been doing them ever since!

    It definitely fires, and indeed is in good shape.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • davis
    davis Posts: 2,506
    UndercoverElephant wrote:
    davis wrote:
    dondare wrote:
    Glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, fish oil, celadrin, rose-hip extract and various other supplements can help reduce cartlidge damage and joint inflamation.

    I like the idea of lubricating your joints through diet, but I've always been a bit wary of these new-fangled supplements (yes, I know). I prefer food that's, you know, food. Are the any decent sources available in food besides oily fish (which I eat loads of)?

    I'm desperately hoping beer and curry are recognised sources...

    I seem to remember that glucosamine is made from the shells or prawns. You could try eating them.

    Hmmmm did I mention it needs to be food? Actually if they're little baby prawns they are usually edible..
    Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.
  • hells
    hells Posts: 175
    The more you say the more it sounds like chondrolmacia. I got a doctor friend to examine my knee and he did what you jsut said put his hand lightly on the knee cap whilst I straightened and then bent my leg I could feel the grinding in my joint and he could feel it through his hand. It's very common and not that much of an issue once you learn how to deal with it, I can even run now without pain so long as I don't run every day like I used to. Book an appointment with your gp hopefully they will be able to tell you what it is or maybe even refer you to a physio. I put my saddle really forward and I have to have my cleats pointed slightly inwards as my knees kinda roll inwards abit when I run and cycle. That wont necissarily work for you, it depends on your own biomechanics and build. I think you are taller than me and i have no idea if your knees roll inwards or outwards or normally.
    Scott Addict R2 2010
    Trek 1.7 compact 2009
    Tank race elite 2007
    Marin Alpine trail 2007
    Specalized Langster 2010
    Kona Jake the Snake
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Thanks Hells, I will head over to the GP and see what they have to say!
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    If your knees didn't hurt when the saddle was further back, then maybe put the saddle further back?
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    I did...

    Still very ouchy this AM... was up late geeking and took the tube in.

    :(
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • andy83
    andy83 Posts: 1,558
    Think it will jsut be trial and error. When i was riding my fixed at first gott really bad lower back pain and knee pain. Moving seatpost up the smallest amount made all the difference

    Im new to riding fixed so if this dont make sense ignore me. when spinning a lot at first i felt like i was all over the place on the bike and had no control, when i moved the seat post slightly it made the world of difference and control was much better
  • itsbruce
    itsbruce Posts: 221
    Getting my saddle at just the right position on my fixie made all the difference to my right knee. Height was a factor but the right fore/aft placement was the decider. The day I got that placement right, I also broke my fixed commute record (only two minutes behind my geared best) with no effort required. Now I daren't move it again.
    Charge Mixer (2010)
    Schwinn Madison (2009)
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,355
    Why are Lit's knees bollix, whereas This guy's legs are serious ?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Because I done posted it in here, knowing as I do that my legs are far more frivolous than that guy's.

    Also, I don't think Calvin and Hobbes is sufficiently serious for the serious forum.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,355
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Also, I don't think Calvin and Hobbes is sufficiently serious for the serious forum.


    You name your knees??
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    TailWindHome wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Also, I don't think Calvin and Hobbes is sufficiently serious for the serious forum.


    You name your knees??

    I didn't, until now.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Also, I don't think Calvin and Hobbes is sufficiently serious for the serious forum.
    I beg to differ...
    kelsen wrote:
    I also love Calvin & Hobbes, but does anyone else find it a bit disturbing that a six year old is already displaying such alarming levels of schizophrenia?
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Why are Lit's knees bollix, whereas This guy's legs are serious ?

    As whyamihere explained, he got bored halfway through sorting the threads into serious and non-serious. Kind of undermines the whole spoilt thing a bit, but I'm getting used to it. BTW, we do still sneak the odd joke in on 'the other side', it's not all po-faced.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • gtvlusso
    gtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    OH dear LiT - head to the quack and get it sorted ASAP!!

    Orthotic inserts in my shoes sorted my knee issues out - was using worn out shoes and my ankles froze up (unbeknowst to moi), caused my knee to start to do the job that my ankle was not doing and consequently it f*cked up vey quickly!

    A good specialist will sort in no time at all....DON'T DELAY LIKE I DID!!!!!!!
  • kelsen
    kelsen Posts: 2,003
    rjsterry wrote:
    As whyamihere explained, he got bored halfway through sorting the threads into serious and non-serious. Kind of undermines the whole spoilt thing a bit, but I'm getting used to it. BTW, we do still sneak the odd joke in on 'the other side', it's not all po-faced.
    I went over there and wrote this...
    kelsen wrote:
    If however, they creep up behind you and deliver a great big emission from their horn, it's obviously meant to scare you.
    didn't even get a snigger
  • Big Wib
    Big Wib Posts: 363
    kelsen wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    As whyamihere explained, he got bored halfway through sorting the threads into serious and non-serious. Kind of undermines the whole spoilt thing a bit, but I'm getting used to it. BTW, we do still sneak the odd joke in on 'the other side', it's not all po-faced.
    I went over there and wrote this...
    kelsen wrote:
    If however, they creep up behind you and deliver a great big emission from their horn, it's obviously meant to scare you.
    didn't even get a snigger

    it's very quiet over there, kind of library like. Are people going to get this impression of all commuters being really serious types :shock:
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    Tramadol then who cares about pain!? Not me :-)

    Just returned from the docs with a new even bigger box of extra strong ones, now what did the doc say about drinking and drugs???

    :-)
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    Excuse the bumping, but did you ever get to the bottom of your mystery achy knees, LiT? I ask as I had something similar last week - not quite knees, but just above knees/bottom of quads felt a bit sore all week, like I'd been pushing too large a gear. It was also my first week using my new M520s instead of my old VP104s, so I'm assuming it was that, but apart from maybe a couple of millimeters difference in the stack height, I can't see that there's a huge difference. Any thoughts anyone?

    Here's a picture of the VP104s BTW.

    vp-104.jpg

    And of course the M520s for comparison. Slightly different design, and I think the Shimano cleats are slightly thicker (they stick out past the tread of my shoes, whereas the VP cleats were flush), but enough to give me achy knees?

    shimano-m520-cyc-plus-main.jpg
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Well, the only way I've sorted it so far, despite a lot of cleat-fettling and such, has been to ride the maxima.

    I'm not sure if it's the cleat/pedal combo, or something else...

    I guess I should book myself into the Bike Whisperer or something.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • EKE_38BPM
    EKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    When I drive the van, my knee hurts, when I ride my bike, my knee doesn't hurt. I feel very lucky that my hobby makes me feel well.
    I fiddled with my cleats the other day. Big mistake. It took two weeks to get it back to a position that didn't hurt, but its all sorted now.

    I'm in a really good mood. 45 miles cycled and I feel better than before I left.
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
    FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
    FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees

    I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    Thanks for that LiT. Hmmm, no flash alternative bike for me :( I was extra careful to make sure I lined up the cleats in the same position on the shoes as before, but they may be at a slightly different angle. Might also try a couple of minor adjustments on the saddle.

    Or it might just be that the old VP 104s were very worn, and so had a lot of play, whereas the new Shimanos hold the cleats much more tightly. I'll see how it goes this week.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,411
    Aha! Turns out I have fixed my new cleats on very slightly askew, which tends to point my heels out slightly - the opposite of their natural position.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Fingers crossed that sorts you out!
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • richred_uk
    richred_uk Posts: 167
    I can't recommend enough taking leg pain seriously - my 'probably a tendon strain' that I dismissed as something that would work itself out was DVT that I delayed treatment of by a month by not going to a decent GP and just taking pills from a walk in centre.

    I know that something like that is a real rarity, but will stop me being so blase about my body's signals in future I hope.

    Best wishes to all with niggles and pains here too - dead jealous of anyone on a bike at the moment :(

Categories