Armstrong to blame for his cancer?

cajun_cyclist

So, we are NOT talking about Scott Sonnon? The kettlebell/Indian Club/Club swinging guy?? In a way I'd be relieved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc

One of the coolest videos one might see.

---

So the talker here is Chael Sonnen (note different than Sonnon like Scott's name). I don't know, really.

Glad Scott didn't mouth off saying this stuff.

Gazzaputt

Moray Gub wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Gotta laugh when somebody says it was in Armstrong's book as though it was some sort of 'gospel'?

Gotta laugh when somebody says it was in Walsh's book as though it was some sort of 'gospel'?

Monty Dog

Moray Gub wrote:

I often get the impression with you that would have preferred it if LA had died of his cancer. Thats the kind of guy you strike me as .

More groundless hypothesis - I didn't know Public Strategies have been recruiting north of the border?

Anonymous

cajun_cyclist wrote:

So, we are NOT talking about Scott Sonnon? The kettlebell/Indian Club/Club swinging guy?? In a way I'd be relieved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc

One of the coolest videos one might see.

---

So the talker here is Chael Sonnen (note different than Sonnon like Scott's name). I don't know, really.

Glad Scott didn't mouth off saying this stuff.

I wanted to see more videos like this, I was rather shocked at what I saw when I googled 'swinging clubs'

Captain Fagor

Moray Gub wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Yup, David Walsh has already made allegations in his two books - the first was banned from publication in English - the second repeated most of these allegations and is readily available. There may be evidence to suggest that excessive testosterone could be a causal factor in certain cancers. Likewise, excessive T results is a predictive indicator of the cancer and questions remain as to why this wasn't picked-up in regular testing, unless of course there was deliberate manipulation of the testing protocols / results?

I often get the impression with you that would have preferred it if LA had died of his cancer. Thats the kind of guy you strike me as .

My, you're a real charmer aren't you?

deejay

SpaceJunk wrote:

Well, if LA had of died, the hard drive that holds the whole of the internet wouldn't be quite so full.

And wouldn't the TDF have been interesting for those 7 years.

I started the thread and read the link and thought that guy must be off his chopper, with what is obviously a publicity stunt.

Nothing adds up as Pre Cancer the Texan whiz kid was no frigging good as a potential TDF winner.
Superman appeared after the chemo and drugs were needed not before.
Before chemo he was just a runt complaining that nobody recognised him and I stood next to him while he said it.

What Superman did after chemo and drugs is now history and full of lovely speculation that seems to be, about to hit his pocket.

PS - With Superman you cannot just stand and listen anymore because it is now all "Sound Bites" and Lectures that cost money.
I was just lucky to hear the bum when he was cheap as sh*t. and Free with it.

moray_gub

deejay wrote:

SpaceJunk wrote:

Well, if LA had of died, the hard drive that holds the whole of the internet wouldn't be quite so full.

And wouldn't the TDF have been interesting for those 7 years.

I started the thread and read the link and thought that guy must be off his chopper, with what is obviously a publicity stunt.

Nothing adds up as Pre Cancer the Texan whiz kid was no frigging good as a potential TDF winner.
Superman appeared after the chemo and drugs were needed not before.
Before chemo he was just a runt complaining that nobody recognised him and I stood next to him while he said it.

What Superman did after chemo and drugs is now history and full of lovely speculation that seems to be, about to hit his pocket.

PS - With Superman you cannot just stand and listen anymore because it is now all "Sound Bites" and Lectures that cost money.
I was just lucky to hear the bum when he was cheap as sh*t. and Free with it.

DJ without doubt mate you are my fav poster i just love your posting style..............its a hoot.

moray_gub

Captain Fagor wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Yup, David Walsh has already made allegations in his two books - the first was banned from publication in English - the second repeated most of these allegations and is readily available. There may be evidence to suggest that excessive testosterone could be a causal factor in certain cancers. Likewise, excessive T results is a predictive indicator of the cancer and questions remain as to why this wasn't picked-up in regular testing, unless of course there was deliberate manipulation of the testing protocols / results?

I often get the impression with you that would have preferred it if LA had died of his cancer. Thats the kind of guy you strike me as .

My, you're a real charmer aren't you?

I know.

cajun_cyclist

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4308 ... g-comments

Sonnen recently appeared on Jim Rome's radio show to deny any comments made by him about Lance Armstrong giving himself cancer while on Pro MMA Radio with Larry Pepe.

"I thought you were kidding around with that voice over. That's certainly not me," Sonnen said when confronted by Rome. "I can't say it to you any clearer brother."

???

As if it's that important, I'm not going to watch this so-called video of him saying this which he now denies. Voiceover??

Homer J

There's a lot of guys taking LA personally, it's not like he was the only person to cheat to win the tdf, sure he acted like he owned the tdf but thats only because people let him. If you met any tdf winner you could say "Sure you won it x amount of times, but would you have done it if you weren't taking x amount of drugs"?
I just don't get why some people get so excited, to me he is no different to the guy riding next to him. And don't give me that "i want a clean sport crap" this sport has been dirty from the day it started, the cheating has just gone high tech. If a cheat gets caught, he gets busted end of.
Now i don't expect you lot to take seriously a post from a guy called Homer J any more than i'd take a post seriously from guy with a stupid fecking handle (hic)

Seanos

Monty Dog wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

I often get the impression with you that would have preferred it if LA had died of his cancer. Thats the kind of guy you strike me as .

More groundless hypothesis - I didn't know Public Strategies have been recruiting north of the border?

Complaining about a groundless hypothesis is a bit rich from a man who said:

There may be evidence to suggest that excessive testosterone could be a causal factor in certain cancers. Likewise, excessive T results is a predictive indicator of the cancer and questions remain as to why this wasn't picked-up in regular testing, unless of course there was deliberate manipulation of the testing protocols / results?

deejay

Moray Gub wrote:

DJ without doubt mate you are my fav poster i just love your posting style..............its a hoot.

I take it that you agree with the truth of my postings and they brighten up your life for you.
You really should get out more and stop just plodding about.
Hoots man it's a braw bric moonlic nic.

Anonymous

Seanos wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

I often get the impression with you that would have preferred it if LA had died of his cancer. Thats the kind of guy you strike me as .

More groundless hypothesis - I didn't know Public Strategies have been recruiting north of the border?

Complaining about a groundless hypothesis is a bit rich from a man who said:

There may be evidence to suggest that excessive testosterone could be a causal factor in certain cancers. Likewise, excessive T results is a predictive indicator of the cancer and questions remain as to why this wasn't picked-up in regular testing, unless of course there was deliberate manipulation of the testing protocols / results?

When you have testicular cancer there are tumour markers in your bloodstream that are picked up, like high levels of HCG, AFP and LDH. High Testosterone levels in your blood have no bearing on testicular cancers as a general rule. In fact the protein that is present in high values is one that pregnant women develop :shock:

BTW, Lance was a world champion before cancer.

BikingBernie

dmclite wrote:

BTW, Lance was a world champion before cancer.

And completely hopeless as Tour rider, packing the first two times he rode the Tour, losing up to 30 minutes on a big mountain stage and over 6 minutes in a flat TT, and when he did mange to finish the Tour on his third attempt coming in one and half hours behind the winner. Then he teamed up with Ferrari...

moray_gub

BikingBernie wrote:

dmclite wrote:

BTW, Lance was a world champion before cancer.

And completely hopeless as Tour rider, packing the first two times he rode the Tour, losing up to 30 minutes on a big mountain stage and over 6 minutes in a flat TT, and when he did mange to finish the Tour on his third attempt coming in one and half hours behind the winner. Then he teamed up with Ferrari...

Nothing at all unusual or hopeless about a 21 year old rider not finishing a Tour he even managed to win a a stage before he packed in 93.

Anonymous

BikingBernie wrote:

dmclite wrote:

BTW, Lance was a world champion before cancer.

And completely hopeless as Tour rider, packing the first two times he rode the Tour, losing up to 30 minutes on a big mountain stage and over 6 minutes in a flat TT, and when he did mange to finish the Tour on his third attempt coming in one and half hours behind the winner. Then he teamed up with Ferrari...

Really good cars, them.

Were you a massive fanboy at one stage of LA and shunned by him or something ? I just don't understand the level of vitriol and spite you preach about LA at any given turn. You need to get over it, mind you saying that the Landis allegations probably gave you a total boner and a new lease of life. Turn your attention to something like Amnesty and start preaching about real baddies like Mugabe, you have a lot of angry energy there, I think.

BikingBernie

Moray Gub wrote:

Nothing at all unusual or hopeless about a 21 year old rider not finishing a Tour he even managed to win a a stage before he packed in 93.

Prior to the ‘Epo era’ it was practically unknown for someone who was a total also-ran in their first Tours to become a winner, never mind a multiple winner. Fignon won the Tour the first time he rode it aged 22, Merckx was 9th in the Giro whilst he was still 21, won the Giro when he was still 22 and then won the Tour weeks after turning 24. Greg Lemond was 3rd in his first Tour, aged 23.

Meanwhile in the three times he rode before he was 24 Armstrong was going nowhere, not even getting any quicker in the flat time trials that he said he was particularly focusing on with the aim of getting faster by ‘a minute a year’. The he teamed up with Ferrari and didn’t simply cut his 6 minutes deficit by a minute, he went faster than anyone had ever gone before.

BikingBernie

dmclite wrote:

Were you a massive fanboy at one stage of LA and shunned by him or something ? I just don't understand the level of vitriol and spite you preach about LA at any given turn. You need to get over it, mind you saying that the Landis allegations probably gave you a total boner...

Every time I start to get bored of the game, comments such as yours give me all the motivation I need to carry on.

DaveyL

BikingBernie wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Nothing at all unusual or hopeless about a 21 year old rider not finishing a Tour he even managed to win a a stage before he packed in 93.

Prior to the ‘Epo era’ it was practically unknown for someone who was a total also-ran in their first Tours to become a winner, never mind a multiple winner. Fignon won the Tour the first time he rode it aged 22, Merckx was 9th in the Giro whilst he was still 21, won the Giro when he was still 22 and then won the Tour weeks after turning 24. Greg Lemond was 3rd in his first Tour, aged 23.

Meanwhile in the three times he rode before he was 24 Armstrong was going nowhere, not even getting any quicker in the flat time trials that he said he was particularly focusing on with the aim of getting faster by ‘a minute a year’. The he teamed up with Ferrari and didn’t simply cut his 6 minutes deficit by a minute, he went faster than anyone had ever gone before.

The average age of a first-time Tour de France winner is 27.

The average age for the first win of multiple winners is lower, but this is probably not a statistically significant sample size (the whole TdF winner pool may not be given how training and the sport has changed since it began).

BikingBernie

DaveyL wrote:

The average age of a first-time Tour de France winner is 27.

But how many of those rode the Tour for several years as total also-rans before winning? For example, Zoetemelk won the Tour for the first and last time in 1980 when he was 33. However he was second in his first Tour and that was in 1970 when he was was still 23! Historically, whether they win or not, most Tour winners show the potential of being a 'Tour winner' very early in their careers. Armstrong did not, let alone the potential to be a multiple winner. Much can be said of others in the 'Epo era' such as Indurain and Riis.

paulcuthbert

BikingBernie wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Nothing at all unusual or hopeless about a 21 year old rider not finishing a Tour he even managed to win a a stage before he packed in 93.

Meanwhile in the three times he rode before he was 24 Armstrong was going nowhere, not even getting any quicker in the flat time trials that he said he was particularly focusing on with the aim of getting faster by ‘a minute a year’

Just out of interest, since you seem to know everything about the man (as worrying as that is) - when exactly did he "team up" with Ferarri?

moray_gub

BikingBernie wrote:

Much can be said of others in the 'Epo era' such as Indurain and Riis.

Indurain ?

1987: 97th
1988: 47th
1989: 17th
1990: 10th
1991 1st

Looks like steady progress to me.

Deegs

You know I just had the moost amazing dream I had to get up and write about it here.




In this dream, Armstrong was riding a race. As I watched, he got out loads of syringes full of banned stuff, like, and injected himself with them, or it might have been legal amino acids or something.
As I watched he turned into a horse, collapsed off his bike and died at the roadside.


Straightaway this vast crowd of people all gathered and started flogging the remains, over and over, I tried to get away but it seemed wherever I looked there were just more and more of them.


What a nightmare, glad to have woken up, I think.


Tumour markers are rarely sufficiently sensitive in the statistical sense to be a good or reliable way of detecting cancers and they are not best used in this way. Thay are usually used for monitoring of treatment and to raise suspicion of recurrence should previously high levels start to rise again.

BikingBernie

paulcuthbert wrote:

Just out of interest, since you seem to know everything about the man (as worrying as that is) - when exactly did he "team up" with Ferarri?

November 1995, in a meeting arranged by Eddy Merckx. (Axel Merckx was also a client of Ferrari). Of course this relationship hardy benefited him in 1996 as that was the year his form fell to pieces and he was diagnosed with cancer, but Ferrari took full control of the 'preparation' for Armstrong's comeback.

Lots more detail in the article below, though I guess you must consider it 'worrying' that anyone should want to read it. :roll:

http://www.tourdefranceinformation.com/ ... -1,00.html

BikingBernie

Moray Gub wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

Much can be said of others in the 'Epo era' such as Indurain and Riis.

Indurain ?

1987: 97th
1988: 47th
1989: 17th
1990: 10th
1991 1st

Looks like steady progress to me.

You 'forgot' to include the two 'DNF's in 1985 and 1986. One might argue that Indurain made 'steady progress', but the degree of improvement is still unbelievable, especially post 1991 when his 'normalised' threshold power output increased by 80 watts. It took him 7 years to get on the podium, then he dominated for 5 years. Quite a transformation. Now remind me, what new drug became universal currency in the peleton around 1991?



What makes increases like this so unbelievable is that VO2 max is largely genetically determined, being maximised within 12 months of starting a serious training programme. Peter Keen, working with Boardman, also calculated that once a rider has reached the pro ranks they would be lucky to again another 5 watts a year.

Anonymous

BikingBernie wrote:

dmclite wrote:

Were you a massive fanboy at one stage of LA and shunned by him or something ? I just don't understand the level of vitriol and spite you preach about LA at any given turn. You need to get over it, mind you saying that the Landis allegations probably gave you a total boner...

Every time I start to get bored of the game, comments such as yours give me all the motivation I need to carry on.

You'll be glad to know you are not alone in being bored by this, you could put a glass eye to sleep with the crap you trot out.

Monty Dog

Not as bored by the repetitive, baseless cr@p that get's regurgitated in defence of his 'holiness' - what makes it worse is that they don't even have the nounce to present a co-herent argument, just spewing out vitriol, adopting the same mindless tactics of attacking the individual, undermining their characters - in fact, much like what they tried to do with Greg Lemond...the irony is that they can't even see that it's not working!

moray_gub

Monty Dog wrote:

Not as bored by the repetitive, baseless cr@p that get's regurgitated in defence of his 'holiness' - what makes it worse is that they don't even have the nounce to present a co-herent argument, just spewing out vitriol, adopting the same mindless tactics of attacking the individual, undermining their characters - in fact, much like what they tried to do with Greg Lemond...the irony is that they can't even see that it's not working!

This is actually a bit of a smokescreen to hide the bitter personal attacks often made by the ALB, much like yourself a few weeks back in fact. If you say it often and loud enough as you do people actually begin to beleive it and think it has some merit when it is generally the other way round.

paulcuthbert

BikingBernie wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Just out of interest, since you seem to know everything about the man (as worrying as that is) - when exactly did he "team up" with Ferarri?

November 1995, in a meeting arranged by Eddy Merckx. (Axel Merckx was also a client of Ferrari). Of course this relationship hardy benefited him in 2006 as that was the year his form fell to pieces and he was diagnosed with cancer, but Ferrari took full control of the 'preparation' for Armstrong's comeback

Because he'd retired...

Btw, I can't believe how sceptical you are about absolutely everything. Why are you even still here if you loathe and detest everything about the sport?

Monty Dog

Hook, line and sinker!