SPD's power advantage....Myth?

supersonic

I use flats for everything.

Bar Shaker

I've been using SPDs for some years. I have half cage, half SPDs on my MTB but feel much more vulnerable to a foot slip if not clipped in.

Its not a power thing for me, although I could not do high cadence climbs out of the saddle like I do without them. For me its more being able to throw the bike around with me on hops and keep my muddy feet planted when they really, really must not slip..

Also, I have stopped getting foot, knee and ankle strain since using them. This may be because its holding my legs in a better geometry. I have M183s and the shoes themselves would make a world of difference to foot pain... and therefore endurance.

They aren't compulsory. Vive la difference!

wesk

How dare you be reasonable in a thread like this. Flats are the devils children. Anyone who's anyone knows that.
Anyone who uses spd's is fitter, instantly a better climber and will descend with a grace unparalleld, where as anyone on flats will automaticly hang around jumps and drops telling everyone that they can do it better and that the riders actually going over it are on the wrong kit.
simples.

cee

wesk wrote:

How dare you be reasonable in a thread like this. Flats are the devils children. Anyone who's anyone knows that.
Anyone who uses spd's is fitter, instantly a better climber and will descend with a grace unparalleld, but probably cannot bunnyhop.

well if its gonna go like that....i finished your sentence for you.

Thewaylander

Meh good flatties give great contact and feed back to the bike. I don't feel SPD's offer me personally anything that a flatty can't but the flatty is infinitely easy to hang the leg out on the downs or bail in the real crap.

People who slip alot on flat, need to get solid flats, a decent set of flat shoes, (i just use V12's and a set of vans classic waffles) then go practice unweighting the bike until they can use flats correctly as that is what the difference is Technique.

BUt i don't really care what people ride with as long as they personally are comfortable and having as much fun as they can.

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

BUt i don't really care what people ride with as long as they personally are comfortable and having as much fun as they can.

I actually agree with this. What I'm vehemently opposed to is this pressure on new riders to use SPDS and nothing else, so that they get the impression that "real mountain bikers use SPDs".
It just isn't true, and is a load of bollorks.

CycloRos

yeehaamcgee wrote:

...What I'm vehemently opposed to is this pressure on new riders to use SPDS and nothing else, so that they get the impression that "real mountain bikers use SPDs".

Where's this pressure come from? Don't think I've ever encountered it.

ride_whenever wrote:

I've found that when things are smooth I like clipless ...and the power transfer feels better from the stiffer soled shoes. But I cannot ride technical terrain as well, I think this comes from turning using my heels more when on flats, due to the flex in the shoes.

^^this

I've ridden SPDs, I've ridden flats, I've ridden clips, I prefer flats for 90% of the riding I do simply because of the feedback I can feel through them. For smooth / road work I prefer SPDs.

I don't buy the whole being attached to the bike argument in either case I can bail just as easy. I very rarely experience my foot slipping off flats, when it does happen it's usually because I've messed up my line which in turn teaches me to pay more attention!

It's truly a case of horses for courses, flats on very technical terrain, SPDs for smooth stuff, but that's just my view sorry no science

Thewaylander

it's good veiw cyclo, But we are on a MTB section, so there should be no smooth bits, So therefor

The Northern Monkey

I used SPD's around some fire road this weekend... it was good.
There were some lengthy climbs that were definately helped by wearing SPD's.

All was going fine untill I was riding slowly and waiting for someone to catch up, I lost my balance and slowly toppled over... i'm now nursing a sore/bruised shoulder.

Which made me think...

What happens if i'm riding solo and I have a moment when I need to quickly unclip and I can't? I crash... and if I am riding solo, then that scares me a bit.

I'm going to give them a go round a proper technical trail, but if I don't feel safe or if my riding becomes a bit dull becasue I don't want to go faster then I'll be ditching them rather quickly!

CycloRos

Thewaylander wrote:

it's good veiw cyclo, But we are on a MTB section, so there should be no smooth bits, So therefor

:P sorry forgot to say SPDs are gay as are roadies, lycra and carbon bling! am I forgiven?

mea00csf

you find your own techniques for riding with them tho. you get past the whole slowly falling over thing very quickly and as far as waiting around doing trackstands, when you feel a wobble, you quickly learn to put in pedal turn to get your balance again.
I am bit weird tho, i feel way more confident going downhill with spds than on flats

Thewaylander

CycloRos wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

it's good veiw cyclo, But we are on a MTB section, so there should be no smooth bits, So therefor

:P sorry forgot to say SPDs are gay as are roadies, lycra and carbon bling! am I forgiven?

Perfect

Northwind

The Northern Monkey wrote:

What happens if i'm riding solo and I have a moment when I need to quickly unclip and I can't? I crash... and if I am riding solo, then that scares me a bit.

Once you're used to it, you really do clip out faster than you'd believe. It's not quite as fast as with flats, dur, but it's not slow. I saw a mate of mine have a little spill, one of the other bystanders said "Bet you're glad you weren't clipped in"- he was It's a reflex you quickly learn so it's not the drawback it seems.

it's when you have time to think about it things go wrong and you end up, like another mate, breaking your elbow in glentress carpark because you forget to unclip and fall on your car

paul.skibum

I just ordered a pair of Wellgo V8 copies for 12 quid to try out - will put them on the hardtail and run them for a while - also wanted to try manuals and the like so flats may be sensible for that!

I have an ageing pair of DC skate shoes with waffle sole - they going to give me a good enough grip? I tried an old pair of trainers previously and they worked well grip wise but were a bit flexy - I'm worried the DC's might be similar.

wesk

I realised last night one other benifit of SPD's - the sole of the shoes. There is no way in the world I would have made it up the muddy slope I was climbing with the bike on my shoulder if I had 'waffle' soled shoes. Big rugby studs on the toes and a gip like a tracter tyre helped a lot!
Rubbish on slick rocks though.....

.blitz

Absolutely no advantage to flats once you've got the hang of SPDs

cee

.blitz wrote:

Absolutely no advantage to flats once you've got the hang of SPDs

apart from the quick foot dab on off camber muddy corners?

shenanigans...Dance and all.

some say...

Absolutely no advantage to SPD's once you get the hang of flats though.

ride_whenever

I'd say there is less of an advantage to spds once you're competent on flats...

Thewaylander

SPD's are over biking.. I know Realman told me

toasty

cee wrote:

Dr Auriel Forrester of Scientific Coaching: “Pulling up on the pedals decreases power output as it interferes with the all-important downstroke on the other side – specifically, you can’t pull up against gravity at the same rate or same force as you can push down with gravity!”

Now, I have often thought that the connection might help you to keep a good pedalling technique, although this is possible with flats too.

That only leaves a feeling of connectedness to the bike as an advantage of SPD's....

Are there any other advantages?

Can't argue with that, you read it on the internet, it must be true.

Quick, someone tell all the professional XC racers, they're doing it wrong!

Chalky76

I tried spd's for commuting with the view of using them off-road but really didn't take to them, i had to force myself to pull the pedals up, it just wasn't natural, plus off road i like to get some air and just don't like the idea of not being able to bail out quickly (I know, some people are able to quickly unclip but i don't want to find out if i'm one of them!)

As for slippage on pedals, treat yourself to some decent pedals with raised pins and a pair of Five tens, you will slip no more

marki3boy

I thought SPDs were training devices for riders who have bad pedalling technique, and can’t do bunny hops.
Once you get the hang of it all, you get flats, just like taking the stabilisers off your bike when you were a nipper.

Northwind

.blitz wrote:

Absolutely no advantage to flats once you've got the hang of SPDs

You, sir, have possibly never restarted halfway along a wobbly bit of northshore Actually, restarting in general is miles, miles easier on flats than SPDs, once things get marginal- steep restarts, bad surfaces, short distances before something horrible- then that's not one to sniff at.

Also, flats will never clog with mud or snow. And the cleats will never wear out.

toasty

Northwind wrote:

.blitz wrote:

Absolutely no advantage to flats once you've got the hang of SPDs

You, sir, have possibly never restarted halfway along a wobbly bit of northshore Actually, restarting in general is miles, miles easier on flats than SPDs, once things get marginal- steep restarts, bad surfaces, short distances before something horrible- then that's not one to sniff at.

Also, flats will never clog with mud or snow. And the cleats will never wear out.

My shoes get torn to bits waaaay before my cleat wears down Even if the cleats sit outside all winter and end up covered in rust, bit of WD40 and they're as good as new. I've been through a couple of sets of cleats, but then I've been through loads of pedal axles and flat shoes in that time.

Uchiga

Depends on what you ride and how you ride as to whether flat pedals or clipless pedals suit yourself and the bike.

However the physics and the science behind both remain the same. Whether you can notice that differance or indeed find that differance useful or works well for you is a completely differant issue.

Clipless pedals allow you to remain in your pedals in the optimum position at all times. You can still rotate you foot a small amount due to the "float" that a lot of off road clipless pedals certianly have. Road clipless pedals dont have this "float" capability and as a result are said to damage your knees more quickly as a result.

Right clipless pedals also hold the advantage of being able to pull up and down at the same time. Some of you have said that this makes no sense and also is difficult to do. As with all thigns it requires practise. The correct motion on the pedal as well. if you cant practise it or get it then thats not the clipless pedals fault. I ride clipless pedals on a singlespeed bike. I ride it for the road. It has to be said to get a decent accelration i can certianly get faster with clipless pedals than i ever could when i had a set of platforms on it. Oh and before the clipless i had toe straps. Since ive used clipless i have noticed a great improvement in acceleration and the consistant speed.

Why is this? Well my feet dont get thrown out of clipless pedals in the same way as you would do on platforms. Think about the rotating speed and force of a pedal when you are spinning out? You foot is forced forwards and out of a platform pedal with or without big hefty pins and nice platform shoes. Also when going up hills you can only use the one pedal on any one side for about 50% of a stroke. And that is on the downwards stroke from the top point to the bottom. After that you have to use your other leg on its downstroke to get power.

Clipless pedals hold your feet in at all times. That covers the feet flying out of pedals thing. Now with power transfer you can use all of the pedal stroke from the top position to the bottom position all the way back through to the top position again. This means if we go by maths you can stick in half as much effort in pedalling but still be using 100% of the pedal stroke. Far more efficient and also by maths again proves that you can get a lot more power from a clipless pedal.

Theres a reason why professional cyclists in there respective areas use there respective pedals. Tour de france and XC racing have clipless pedals because you do need them.

BMXing and Downhilling you need platform pedals, although even in downhilling they are getting the platform clipless pedals depending on the track. It goes to show its still personal preferance at the end of the day.

I personally like my clipless pedals and shall keep them on my XC and my Singlespeed i also own a BMX and i will certianly be keeping my platforms on that.

Long probably waffley comment but i hope it helps people a little bit

Shaggy_Dog

I think it's the combined advantage of increased power output through being able to pull up on the upstroke and through the dead spot increased cadence, power modulation (I.E. being able to back off the power for roots and loose surfaces, and staying on the pedals.

I can't think of any genuine disadvantage to being clipped in.

meesterbond

Uchiga wrote:

Depends on what you ride and how you ride as to whether flat pedals or clipless pedals suit yourself and the bike.

However the physics and the science behind both remain the same. Whether you can notice that differance or indeed find that differance useful or works well for you is a completely differant issue.

[snip]

Long probably waffley comment but i hope it helps people a little bit

[must resist urge to comment]

Anonymous

Pulling up on the upstroke is balls. It's a psychosomatic effect.

Uchiga

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Pulling up on the upstroke is balls. It's a psychosomatic effect.

I Cant Remember If You've Tried Clipless Or Not...

I have timed my jjourneys on a daily commute i have cycled what you could call time trials although not official just myself against my own stop clock and the differance is definatly there. I can shave off a minute over a mile on my singlespeed bike over platform pedals. Up hills i can now sit down and power up with clipless where as with platforms there was no two ways about it you couldnt physically do it sitting down. Ask anyone who rides professionally they will tell you that clipless does allow you to pedal upwards as well.

Actually try pedalling with one foot on a set of platform pedals. Then try pedalling with one foot with a set of clipless pedals. My point of pedalling upstroke with clipless pedals proven. Same with toe straps. Only toe straps arent as stiff and so you dont get as much on the upwards stroke as you do with clipless.

snotty badger

I can't believe how many times these threads start and how long they go on for!