Tour de France Stage 14 *Spoilers*
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:Final TT is a different kettle of fish entirely. Andy lost 1.45 in Annecy.
Also, Contador has always been unusually good at prologues for a GC contender.
Well, yeah, the final TT is different as you've got three weeks of racing in your legs, but you've surely reinforced the point if he lost so much time in last year's TT at Annecy.
I just can't see the point of just not attacking, at least try! Surely?0 -
Good point. However, he must have had the legs today and he should have taken advantage. Contador never got any gap on him at all. Andy must have been the strongest guy on the road. I don't buy the type of climb not suiting. He was strong today and yet adopted the mindset of the jersey is mine and you can't take it rather than tightening his grip.AidanR wrote:I dunno, if Schleck attacks on multiple stages he may achieve nothing but wearing himself out. He has to take a chance to win this Tour, and perhaps that chance is waiting for the Tourmalet...
I am sure his TTing has improved but come on, there will only be 4 or 5 guys within a minute of each other at the sharp end of the TT. AC will be one of them and AS won't.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Final TT is a different kettle of fish entirely. Andy lost 1.45 in Annecy.
Also, Contador has always been unusually good at prologues for a GC contender.
Well, yeah, the final TT is different as you've got three weeks of racing in your legs, but you've surely reinforced the point if he lost so much time in last year's TT at Annecy.
I just can't see the point of just not attacking, at least try! Surely?
Can only attack if you have the legs to...
Attacking is a risky business, since it can blow you up, and you start loose time, rather than just not gaining.
It's been a hard tour and they're both tired.
I want to know why Contador, who burned his whole team up on the flat section, didn't go at it harder. Suffering as well?
Maybe the heat is reducing the attack capability of all riders, like at the Tour of Langkawi.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Andy tactics beg the question - why couldn't Contador just attack him again?
He would have done last year.
People may be saying Andy is betting it all on one stage, (the Tourmalet finish), but Contador is betting it all on the TT, and we have no real indication as to how much Schleck has improved his TTing, (or not).
Cadel did the similar thing with Sastre and got burned for it.
clearly they find it hard to drop each other...
bertie was hoping the strong pace was going to hurt andy and leave him vunrable
lot of work by astana which could have been achieved just by sitting on saxo all day and matching andy..
the ball is in menchovs court to a degree as he has Gesink...."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
mididoctors wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Andy tactics beg the question - why couldn't Contador just attack him again?
He would have done last year.
People may be saying Andy is betting it all on one stage, (the Tourmalet finish), but Contador is betting it all on the TT, and we have no real indication as to how much Schleck has improved his TTing, (or not).
Cadel did the similar thing with Sastre and got burned for it.
clearly they find it hard to drop each other...
bertie was hoping the strong pace was going to hurt andy and leave him vunrable
lot of work by astana which could have been achieved just by sitting on saxo all day and matching andy..
the ball is in menchovs court to a degree as he has Gesink....
Maybe my years of watching Pantani/Ulrich videos has given me blinkered vision, but I understood that if you can't drop soemone on a mountain by atacking, then you can by just riding as hard as you sodding can and watch your rival fall off your wheel - if you are stronger than they are.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I want to know why Contador, who burned his whole team up on the flat section, didn't go at it harder. Suffering as well?
Maybe the heat is reducing the attack capability of all riders, like at the Tour of Langkawi.
what ever the reasons the gap in abilities doesn't allow for this style of racing to be as effective as in previous stages/tours
from memory it appears contador needs stage with one effort climb... mende...verbier etc where his legs have it...
stick a few extra cols in and the difference is reduced is my guess"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Can only attack if you have the legs to...
Attacking is a risky business, since it can blow you up, and you start loose time, rather than just not gaining.
It's been a hard tour and they're both tired.
I want to know why Contador, who burned his whole team up on the flat section, didn't go at it harder. Suffering as well?
Maybe the heat is reducing the attack capability of all riders, like at the Tour of Langkawi.
That's fair enough, to me Contador looked more tired than Schleck. Maybe it was the wrong tactics from Astana. Wonder if we'll see something different from them in the next week.
To be honest, I don't have a problem with either of them winning, but as neither of them seem to want to go for it, I'd rather someone else won. I'd rather see the attacking rider win, such as Vino yesterday. Suppose too much at stake?0 -
Tom BB wrote:Wiggins lost another 5 minutes :roll:
We're running out of climbs that suit Bradders-the ones in the Giro weren't his type-neither have any of the ones so far in the tdf!
wiggins is really starting to annoy me. he's embarrassing himself and his team. he's not even his teams highest placed rider on gc!!
think sky need a serious re think going forward since wiggins won't ever win anything"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Can only attack if you have the legs to...
Attacking is a risky business, since it can blow you up, and you start loose time, rather than just not gaining.
It's been a hard tour and they're both tired.
I want to know why Contador, who burned his whole team up on the flat section, didn't go at it harder. Suffering as well?
Maybe the heat is reducing the attack capability of all riders, like at the Tour of Langkawi.
That's fair enough, to me Contador looked more tired than Schleck. Maybe it was the wrong tactics from Astana. Wonder if we'll see something different from them in the next week.
To be honest, I don't have a problem with either of them winning, but as neither of them seem to want to go for it, I'd rather someone else won. I'd rather see the attacking rider win, such as Vino yesterday. Suppose too much at stake?
Loose? Lose. Apologies.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
Maybe my years of watching Pantani/Ulrich videos has given me blinkered vision, but I understood that if you can't drop soemone on a mountain by atacking, then you can by just riding as hard as you sodding can and watch your rival fall off your wheel - if you are stronger than they are.
depends doesn't it
you flatlanders
not if they are close in ability... riding someone off your wheel by pace is best done by team mates who are dishing unsustainable efforts... yeah
the bunch often loses a few GC guys on the climb by the pace of someguys team at the front but often slows down when gerard rue/navarro/sylvester finally blows up...
so unless you come through with a higher tempo of your own (the big mig) your left with trying to get a jump..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
A good ride by Riblon, Menchov, Valls Ferri - Andy covered Contador's digs with ease - should be a good fight in the coming stages (especially the Tourmalet) - all still to play for.0
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I don think it was ever the plan for Schleck to attack today, he would have done if Contador showed weakness but didnt. Saxo didn't do any work on the front today, no doubt letting their riders recover a little. Schleck was always on Contador's wheel at one point going back to the car himself. Hardly the behavior with someone who has a a plan to attack.
I think Schelck is confident he can drop Contador when the time is right but realises it wont be easy as they are so even and is therefore waiting for that time with some kind of tactic.Mañana0 -
Ja probably. I just remember rides like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yGEa39oH80mididoctors wrote:
depends doesn't it
you flatlanders
not if they are close in ability... riding someone off your wheel by pace is best done by team mates who are dishing unsustainable efforts... yeah
the bunch often loses a few GC guys on the climb by the pace of someguys team at the front but often slows down when gerard rue/navarro/sylvester finally blows up...
so unless you come through with a higher tempo of your own (the big mig) your left with trying to get a jump...
and figured that was the way to do it if you can climb faster than your rival.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:. I just remember rides like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yGEa39oH80
and figured that was the way to do it if you can climb faster than your rival.
I remember it more like this... but that must have been the drugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39ahBFGnuk&feature=related
that stuff was great... if that didn't make your booty move you must have been dead"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
gsk82 wrote:Tom BB wrote:Wiggins lost another 5 minutes :roll:
We're running out of climbs that suit Bradders-the ones in the Giro weren't his type-neither have any of the ones so far in the tdf!
wiggins is really starting to annoy me. he's embarrassing himself and his team. he's not even his teams highest placed rider on gc!!
think sky need a serious re think going forward since wiggins won't ever win anything
:roll: Oh dear. Sorry to hear that his efforts are annoying you. FFSIt’s the most beautiful sport in the world but it’s governed by ***ts who have turned it into a crock of ****.0 -
mididoctors wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:. I just remember rides like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yGEa39oH80
and figured that was the way to do it if you can climb faster than your rival.
I remember it more like this... but that must have been the drugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39ahBFGnuk&feature=related
I see your Ullrich attack video, and raise it to the '97 Alpe d'huez:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGPKuqnpm4s especially @ 6.30 ish, where Virenque is dropped and 7.30 where Ulrich goes.0 -
gsk82 wrote:
wiggins is really starting to annoy me. he's embarrassing himself and his team. he's not even his teams highest placed rider on gc!!
think sky need a serious re think going forward since wiggins won't ever win anything
If you think he's 'embarrassing himself', then you can't have been watching cycling long.Twitter: @RichN950 -
mididoctors wrote:
I remember it more like this... but that must have been the drugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39ahBFGnuk&feature=related
[ul=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmkRTbY9Gys]that stuff was great... if that didn't make your booty move you must have been dead[/url]
You have a thing for fatboyslim theme tuned vids? 0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:mididoctors wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:. I just remember rides like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yGEa39oH80
and figured that was the way to do it if you can climb faster than your rival.
I remember it more like this... but that must have been the drugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39ahBFGnuk&feature=related
I see your Ullrich attack video, and raise it to the '97 Alpe d'huez:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGPKuqnpm4s especially @ 6.30 ish, where Virenque is dropped and 7.30 where Ulrich goes.
All good stuff, but this has to be the best. Looks at the quality of riders Indurain just rides off his wheel...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhEKRjhLuds
Suppose La Plagne was more of an Indurain climb than a Pantani climb :roll:0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:mididoctors wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:. I just remember rides like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yGEa39oH80
and figured that was the way to do it if you can climb faster than your rival.
I remember it more like this... but that must have been the drugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39ahBFGnuk&feature=related
I see your Ullrich attack video, and raise it to the '97 Alpe d'huez:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGPKuqnpm4s especially @ 6.30 ish, where Virenque is dropped and 7.30 where Ulrich goes.
All good stuff, but this has to be the best. Looks at the quality of riders Indurain just rides off his wheel...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhEKRjhLuds
So why can't Andy/Contador ride Contador/Andy off their wheel? Why play all this silly buggery? If they can't drop one another then they still finish together, but at least they properly burry everyone else.0 -
Who knows? He might have had less pressure but given Garmin's injuries, he could have broken a bone too!donrhummy wrote:Question to everyone: would wiggins be doing better if he were still on Garmin? remember they're the ones who helped train him to place 4th last year.
The Tour's history is full of riders who shine one year, then rejig everything to help repeat, or better, only to fail. Wiggo was a more interesting case given the weight loss and the change of goals, abandoning the trivial pursuit. But a lot of his success last year was based on a favourable course - eg the climb to Verbier was short and without a big climb before, the same for Ventoux.0 -
paolo lanfranchi stole my flymo
Halycon days.... hmmm perhaps not?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
So why can't Andy/Contador ride Contador/Andy off their wheel? Why play all this silly buggery? If they can't drop one another then they still finish together, but at least they properly burry everyone else.
because neither of them can..
at best they open up a 10 sec gap they can hold onto for a few k....
dropped for 10-20 secs recover hold tempo
mende vs avoriaz
1-1
half time going into the Pyrenees"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Pokerface wrote:donrhummy wrote:Question to everyone: would wiggins be doing better if he were still on Garmin? remember they're the ones who helped train him to place 4th last year.
Would Armstrong be doing better if he were on Astana?
yes"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I reckon AS can't attack as many times as AC, so if he attacked today and AC held his wheel, AC would have counter attacked and i'm not sure AS could have responded. Like some have said he could be waiting till the end of the mountains.0
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Homer J wrote:I reckon AS can't attack as many times as AC, so if he attacked today and AC held his wheel, AC would have counter attacked and i'm not sure AS could have responded. Like some have said he could be waiting till the end of the mountains.
contador does seem to be able to give it plenty of digs"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Reasonably expected stage today, was surprised to see how much work Vino did though at the last climb.
Expect Schlecklet to cook Contador on the day before the ITT so Contador can't perform so well. I also expect that process to start the day before; I don't know about schleck attacking tomorrow - maybe for some time but I suspect the master plan is to cook Contador before the ITT.
Schleck can do it and it's his best way to beat Contador.
Enjoyed seeing their little mind game with the other cyclists going up the road. Must be a real slap in the face for Sanchez/Menchov to be written off like that but it's funny nonetheless.The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome0 -
Pokerface wrote:donrhummy wrote:Question to everyone: would wiggins be doing better if he were still on Garmin? remember they're the ones who helped train him to place 4th last year.
Would Armstrong be doing better if he were on Astana?
What will happen next year when Schleck and Contador are on the same team?0 -
fastercyclist wrote:Reasonably expected stage today, was surprised to see how much work Vino did though at the last climb.
Expect Schlecklet to cook Contador on the day before the ITT so Contador can't perform so well. I also expect that process to start the day before; I don't know about schleck attacking tomorrow - maybe for some time but I suspect the master plan is to cook Contador before the ITT.
Schleck can do it and it's his best way to beat Contador.
Enjoyed seeing their little mind game with the other cyclists going up the road. Must be a real slap in the face for Sanchez/Menchov to be written off like that but it's funny nonetheless.
well they are going to have to apply more pressure than that..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
