Renshaw out? Damn!

goldsmith_robert

Yeah, but i dont want to watch a completely non-contact, separated race. I find TT's boring (impressive ability, but still boring to watch). Kerins are more fun. Sprinting is way better.

I totally agree that the way Renshaw moved across to block Farrar was unquestionably unacceptable. A much worse offence than the head-butting (neither rider was in danger at this point and a 50:50 tussle, in my opinion). Moving into Farrar was silly. He wasnt well placed, and wouldnt have challenged Cav in the sprint anyway, may have taken more points from Cav's rivals as well: double stupid, but Renshaw was not thinking straight. The red mist had come down. I like seeing people go nuts like that, but I dont want to see the blocking of other riders. It was dangerous, unfair on Farrar and deserved a punishment.

There needs to be another punishment between sending him home and stage dq. I think it would have been better to give him a very large financial fine and dq'd him from stage. Can you think of a better alternative?

plectrum

donrhummy wrote:

Yes, he did deserve to be kicked out. Forget that it possibly cost Farrar the win, he endangered their lives. They're not only traveling at very high speeds over concrete, but there's a ton of bikes behind, and around them and they're liable to be run over and caught in the spokes of a wheel if they go down. What he did was DANGEROUS and a risk of others' well -being.

Also, watch the replay and he doesn't just headbutt Dean, he also runs Farrar into the barriers just as Farrar is about to latch on to Cav.

Donrhummy
Renshaw never in a million years cost Farrar the win, Farrar was heh maybe 2 metres back on Cavendish at the time Renshaw moved over, it could have been a clear road and his bike could've had nitro and he would never have caught Cavendish as the latter is a proven faster sprinter. Petacchi had a clear run through with a united lead out team and still finished a metre back.

Renshaw didn't endager anyones lives, the only way you go down is locking or touching wheels, Renshaw made sure that there was always clear space between his bike and Dean's thus removing any chance of going down, he also made sure not to suddenly brake which could've caused an accident.

Renshaw may or may not have seen Farrar when he peeled left, regardless as soon as he feels Farrar's hand touch his thigh he moves immediately right, slows down and lets Farrar past.

The only dangerous part from Renshaw was the latter part and this may have been accidental.

FFS last year we saw that crazy dutch sprinter Bos literally yank a fellow cyclist into the barriers and nothing was done. Bear in mind that nothign would've happened if Dean hadn't aggressively moved from his line and clearly leant into Renshaw's line in a potentially dangerous way.

What amazes me is the very poor reporting I have seen this mornign from Blazin' Saddles who says:

Oh, and he didn't come across on you at all, he was keeping pretty straight.

Shame imagery clearly shows a significant change of direction from 0 degrees to ~ 8% off centre in a time period of less than 1second which if allowed to continue at speeds ~ 60kph would have caused a significant displacement.

http://yfrog.com/j4x6kj

Dean is clearly offline, has an elbow moving over Renshaw's right handle bar and forearm.

I like reading Blazin' Saddles but controversial, provocative journalism only continues to carry weight if correct.

plectrum

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Watched it yet again.
1) Dean clearly used his elbow, first, on Renshaw.
2) Dean definitely tried to lockdown the Columbia two, on the barriers.
3) Dean continued to try to take Renshaw's line, until the final head butt.
4) Dean brought Farrar up towards the front but never actually led him out.
After the attempted block and consequent head butting saga, he just sat up and cruised back into the bunch.

5) Renshaw cutting up Farrar, who was not on Dean's wheel, was never part of the decision, so is irrelevant to the specific debate.

Unilateral and harsh.

Are you the same Blazin' Saddles Eurosport blogger? If so glad that you have taken a different line but will we see somethign new appear on Eurosport?

Monty Dog

IME the punishment was completely disproportionate to the alleged offence - apart from slowing Farrar - who wasn't within a shout of the sprint anyway. Relegation to last place and a hefty cash fine is typical in this case - he didn't cause a crash. Likewise, Dean should also be punished for dangerous riding by coming off his line and shutting the door on Cav. Even without Renshaw, Farrar has got little chance of beating Cav in a sprint either.

goldsmith_robert

Yep. Thats what it looked like to me in real-time. You can see Deans bike is facing across Renshaw. Renshaw is leaning towards Den but bike is straight.

It much more Deans fault at this point. If you watch the video, Renshaws bike never wavers from straight, his head-buts jre just enough to counteract Deans attempt at cutting him off. Not a very subtle way of protecting your line, but not as dangerous as Dean steering in.

What Renshaw did later is unacceptable and probably deliberate.

plectrum

Pokerface wrote:

I
I also think it's funny how people expect sprinters to hold a perfectly straight line while hammering down the road at 70kph. People move. Bikes move. There is some leeway to lean, throw elbows, etc. We see it EVERY day.

Renshaw has a right to push back, maybe even throw an elbow, etc - but THREE headbutts isn't cool or allowed. Under ANY circumstances.

Pokerface,

Renshaw held a straight line, even when he is needing to use his head to push Dean away. Also if you say Renshaw has a right to push back then please explain WHY he has this right?

I would guess it is first and foremost to avoid entanglign and danger.

A headbutt is very different than using your head to push. Renshaw never intended to cause 'damage' to Dean as you would if you were butting. He also made no effort to knock Dean over as Zidane did in the world cup.

It is clear that he chose the head to use as a push object because it was impossible to use the elbows or shoulder without either entanglign or going off line himself.

Renshaw should get a special award for being a rider that can head butt whilst keeping a perfectly straight line!

Splottboy

Butt...See what I did there?...Did he still win the award for "Most Aggressive" Rider???

plectrum

goldsmith_robert wrote:

What Renshaw did later is unacceptable and probably deliberate.

I'm not so convinced, I do not pro-sprint but as a London cyclist I look back often at speed and know that a glance to the side will only show what is immeidately behind you i..e either on your back wheel or just behind.

At the time Renshaw glanced (literally) his head only turned so the chin is inline with his shoulder or just before this, he 'may' not have seen Farrar as the Garmin rider was still a away back, perhaps 1/2 a metre off Renshaw's back wheel.

Ontop of this seeing back is further restricted by the frames of the sunglasses, somethign again I have first hand experience of when cycling with the Oakleys as I need to fully tilt head to see trucks, taxis and other misc death objects advancing upon me!

Very poor from the officials and it could have been prevented way before this stage. There has been consistent fighting this year within the sprints and taking the relevant DS aside into a stewards meeting to give them a warning would have resolved this.

goldsmith_robert

I wanna see knuckle dusters, armour-plating on the shoulders, spikes on side of shoes and spinning knives on the skewers.....

Grrr......

Gladiator meets pro cycling....

For those who are about to be sent home, we salute you!

LOL

k2rider

i only saw 1 actual headbutt, the first 2 he was using his head to push dean away and obviously got a little bit peed off before the 3rd.

goldsmith_robert

Nah, He I reckon knew what he was doing, didnt push Farrar right onto railings, but did cut him off.

Dangerous. Not acceptable. Should have been punished. But being sent home? For that? No.

goldsmith_robert

plectrum wrote:

Very poor from the officials and it could have been prevented way before this stage. There has been consistent fighting this year within the sprints and taking the relevant DS aside into a stewards meeting to give them a warning would have resolved this.

Totally agree. Much more measured response. Unfortunately, you are not going to get this in TdF.

Can you imagine what Cav will do if he wins in Paris without Renshaw? One finger 'Salute' over the line, rip his suit off to reveal a tattoo of Renshaw in his chest, before showing his bare ass to the race officials and VIPs on the podium?
:shock:

plectrum

Here is the clip at the max of Renshaw turnign his head to glance to the left. inconclusive if he would have seen Farrar.

http://yfrog.com/9ek2yj

Still poor cycling but this is different to deliberate dangerous behaviour.

Amsuignly Dean and Farrar feel that with a clean road he could've won. Note that Pettachi does have a clean roade, is infront of Farrar and a faster, more accomplished sprinter and yet still failed to get within a metre of Cav at the line.

Very ncie to see Lampre riding like a mature sprint team, setting their cyclist up as well as possible, keeping lead out man and sprinter tight and together and just accepting that they were not as fast as HTC unlike the crazy horse tactics used by Vaughters and Garmin.

flattythehurdler

Dave_1 wrote:

Dean tried to put Renshaw up against the barriers first...one or two head nudges seemed understandable from Renshaw considering the threat...glad Farrar got the door slammed on him by resnhaw after the behaviour of Dean

I absolutely agree. dean was the one endangering safety. What he did was WAAAY worse than Cav last year, and nothing happened to him. Renshaws blocking out of farrar was entirely a "blood is up" moment directly following this, and wouldn't have happened if Dean hadn't started it. To throw a man off the biggest race in the world, binning a week, nay a season's hard work for one moment of provoked madness was grossly unjust. The first time in 13 years? Does anyone really think that this was the worst thing anyone has done in the past 13 years of the tour?
Punitive example making to balance up the sprints, and punish htc and Cav IMO. If he was French? They have no problem with drug cheats now do they?

goldsmith_robert

We will never know. I reckon he probably did it because of perceived injustices of Dean cutting him up earlier and just reacted angrily.

Agrree re Farrar. I was hoping for better from him this year, I know hes riding witha cracked elbow so its probably not fair to judge him on this, but he clearly isnt as fast at the moment. Was never going to beat Petacchi let alone Cav.

flattythehurdler

Tom Butcher wrote:

But where do you stop - racing a bike is not meant to be a contact sport.

In a sprint people are bound to get boxed, get cut up etc etc but when you start allowing riders to deliberately close another rider into the barriers where are the limits. If Renshaw wasn't punished then it's open season for leadout riders to block rival sprinters - it's not a bike race any more it's American football on wheels. Cycling relys on people looking out for the safety of each other - that applies from the pros down to the likes of us - there's no place for people who deliberately put other riders at risk just to gain an advantage.

What did dean do then?

fatboyslim.

bobbymeister wrote:

I would suggest you need to watch the video again. Dean leans into Renshaw and sticks his elbow out.
I seem to remember mssrs McEwen and O'Grady crossing the line with their heads locked together a few years ago without suffering a similar fate.

+1

Kléber

You can lean into someone, you can even push them with your head. But Renshaw's third and final head-butt was just that, a head-butt. It's like punching someone, he's not doing it for balance or to defend his line, he's hitting Dean.

It's harsh to exclude him but nutting someone three times in the race means you are highly likely to go out.

Pross

If the dq was purely for cutting up Farrar I don't have an issue with it but on that basis Dean should also be DQd and if you look further back poor old EBH gets cut up twice, the first time I think it's a Garmin rider and the second time a Rabo rider (Freire) really cuts him off so there should have been several others eliminated. There's just no consistency in the decision. Ironically Cav was so much quicker than the others that Renshaw really didn't need to do the cut up and it does appear somewhat retalliatory.

goldsmith_robert

Different use of head if you ask me. McEwen was trying to slow down OGrady (i.e. cheat). Renshaw was trying to get Dean off his line (so he could compete fairly).

McEwen was sent to the back of the stage standings. HE went on to win 3 further stages.

I hope this fires up HTC and Cav, so we can see if he can win without renshaw. Could be the making of Cav, if he can.

Thor Hushvod will get the jersey and deserves it (I saw him on Col de Romme last year, he looked delirious, like a madman). I wont be watching him get the intemediates tho. Ill be watching for the balls out efforts in Paris.

rick_chasey

goldsmith_robert:

FYI: http://tinyurl.com/

moray_gub

goldsmith_robert wrote:

h. Could be the making of Cav, if he can.

.

Thats a strange thing to say about a guy with 13 TDf stage wins a few Giro wins and a Milan San Remo.

goldsmith_robert

Nice.

http://tinyurl.com/38dfeve

Better?
:roll:

goldsmith_robert

Moray Gub wrote:

goldsmith_robert wrote:

h. Could be the making of Cav, if he can.

.

Thats a strange thing to say about a guy with 13 TDf stage wins a few Giro wins and a Milan San Remo.

I mean, it will remove the often used criticism that he can only win with a formidable lead out team. I hope he can prove his critics wrong. I think the ruling is harsh on Renshaw, but it does give Cav an opportunity to show his all-round talent. Can he win from someone else's wheel? Does he have the tactical ability to look after himself? No Big George to do it, now no Rehshaw to help.

RichN95.

goldsmith_robert wrote:

I mean, it will remove the often used criticism that he can only win with a formidable lead out team. I hope he can prove his critics wrong. I think the ruling is harsh on Renshaw, but it does give Cav an opportunity to show his all-round talent. Can he win from someone else's wheel? Does he have the tactical ability to look after himself? No Big George to do it, now no Rehshaw to help.

He managed OK in 2008.

oldwelshman

ynyswen24 wrote:

Dean did move left but the continual headbutting by Renshaw was an overreaction. The clincher was the block on Farrar, Renshaw looks behind so must have seen Farrar coming up and seemed to deliberately ride him into the barriers. Not just aggressive but pretty clearly endangers the riders behind. Automatic red card. HTC can't really complain but Dean probably needs to be unplaced as well.

What aboye Farrar coming right across EBH?

blazing_saddles

Eurosport confirm the official jury press release as utter bollocks.
In interview, chief commie confirms that their decision was made:
"Within 5 minutes of the finish."

Dave Harmon just said he thinks the decision was an "utter disgrace".
Giving a very sensible reasoning.

For Tyler Farrar his opinion is different.

Sean Kelly agrees. "Dean had this barrier tactic in mind and leaned on Renshaw."

goldsmith_robert

You misunderstand me. I hope he does. It will mean that his impressive number of stage wins cannot be criticised so easily. If a pub-bore starts telling you that Cipollini, Zabel or McEwen were better sprinters because they didnt rely on a lead-out man like Renshaw, you would be able to set them straight.

Cav is already a great sprinter. If can pull off another stage win when isolated, he could be classed as one of the very best.

pitchshifter

It looks terrible head on.

But the more and more I watch it the more i feel sorry for Renshaw. I dont even beleive he cut Tyler up on purpose. I think he was after Cavs wheel as there was a massive gap between Farrar and Cav.

Overhead cam says it all.

Harsh.

oxenhoper

All i can say is that the sprints from now on will be very interesting as the precedent has been set..... all eyes on the sprinters now.