* SPOILERS * What was Sky thinking?

donrhummy

Did Sky make a HUGE mistake today that cost wiggins? They went so hard on the first tough climb that by the time wiggins hit the second/last tough climb, all his teammates were cooked. What did going hard on that first climb really do for them? There was still a descent, a small climb and then the tough one at the end left to go.

I think if Sky doesn't go hard like that, Wiggins wouldn't have lost the time he did today.

Kléber

They didn't go that hard up the climb. After all Flecha was leading up the climb. And by the time they got to the business section of 10%, Saxo took over.

donrhummy

Kléber wrote:

They didn't go that hard up the climb. After all Flecha was leading up the climb. And by the time they got to the business section of 10%, Saxo took over.

I disagree. They went hard enough that one by one Wiggins' teammates had to drop off the back of the bunch, never to rejoin.

Kléber

That's because Wiggins has no climbers in the team able of helping. Froome and Augustyn are in Austria or at home. If Sky didn't pull, someone else would have and with Flecha doing the pacemaking, things were not so hard, that's why the group was so big for so long.

mididoctors

Naivety...

all the players were looking for someone to take it up so questions could be answered...

sky felt as thou wiggins had those answers

when sky upped it and lance went out the back saxo then astana hit the front and radioshack detonated all over the Ramaz... from then on the pace was horrific in that heat.. with 20/20 hindsight waiting for someone else to take it up would probably carried wiggo to the finish.

I suspect the heat is catching people out..

evans has no top end at all and contador's inability to follow is going to make it a hard race for him unless he comes good in the third... thou the second aint easy either..

andy looked very fresh at the finish

he may well pull this off

jibberjim

Wiggins is an engine who cannot change pace, he was only dropped once the attacks started on the 2nd climb, by dictating a pace that hopefully reduced the ability to have later attacks he hoped to minimise losses. Maybe it didn't work out, but it wasn't too disastrous, he would've lost a lot more if the climbers started attacking each other sooner.

acidstrato

made for good telly though

wiggins is far from out of it where as lance has had it now, be interesting to see developments this week in the shack

mididoctors

jibberjim wrote:

Wiggins is an engine who cannot change pace, he was only dropped once the attacks started on the 2nd climb, by dictating a pace that hopefully reduced the ability to have later attacks he hoped to minimise losses. Maybe it didn't work out, but it wasn't too disastrous, he would've lost a lot more if the climbers started attacking each other sooner.

should have waited till the second climb if no one was willing to take it up on the Ramaz

they had a plan for the day and went with it...?

if the plan was to negate early attacks on the Ramaz that could have left brad isolated al la "the Romme 2009" then in a way it worked... but frankly if that was all they were hoping for they had little ambition or faith in brad... which strikes me as odd...

what was the game plan?

blazing_saddles

Sky believed their own Wiggins hype, while we didn't.
Simple.

Snorebens

Not too bad to riase the tempo - blew Radioschack apart - but was surprised they went so hard with a whole further climb to go.

Even more surprising though is Pauwels and Cummings coming in with Cav, Renshaw, Farrar etc 32 minutes down. Some climbing help they're proving to be; might as well have brought Henderson after all.

mididoctors

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Sky believed their own Wiggins hype, while we didn't.
Simple.

thats what i reckon as well

mididoctors

Snorebens wrote:

Not too bad to riase the tempo - blew Radioschack apart - but was surprised they went so hard with a whole further climb to go.

Even more surprising though is Pauwels and Cummings coming in with Cav, Renshaw, Farrar etc 32 minutes down. Some climbing help they're proving to be; might as well have brought Henderson after all.

some of the lads may come better in the third

so I am more forgiving.... see sylvester for LIQ... riding himself in?

mroli

I was thining exactly that about Pauwels - he's meant to be a climber after all. Lofkvist did his job - but isn't as good as VDV was for Wiggins last year. Cummings is no climber. Astana team looked awesome today, but VDB, Evans, Sanchez showed that you don't need a team around you to do well.

stagehopper

donrhummy wrote:

Kléber wrote:

They didn't go that hard up the climb. After all Flecha was leading up the climb. And by the time they got to the business section of 10%, Saxo took over.

I disagree. They went hard enough that one by one Wiggins' teammates had to drop off the back of the bunch, never to rejoin.

Most of them were long gone on the very first hill - Gerrans is struggling with his early crash and Cummings and Pauwels clearly don't have the legs. We saw nothing of EBH. Barry is for the flat and Thomas did his little bit with Flecha.

Wiggins is stuck with Lokvist unless one of the Gerrans/Pauwels/Cummings find their legs.

As has been trailed on here all year, they're short of people who can go up hill. As for Wiggins himself, he said he was feeling excellent on the first hill then just popped. It's happened to most of the leading contenders at one time of another

morstar

I think Sky are well aware of Brads one pace. They are trying to win a race against superior climbing talents and the tactic today, whilst clearly bold, was to control as many elements of the race they could. This is completely consistent with Brailsfords approach to the track; control what you can!
I also think there is a large element of learning by trial and error. Sky are learning what it takes to control a race. They don't expect to win this year but are laying the foundations for future attempts. This is new team that is not just making up the numbers but on a steep learning curve that is not risk averse.
Brad should still be comfortably top 10. He lost time today on 15-20 riders of which many are well behind on GC and some he will have for 5 mins in the TT.
Disappointing for him and the team but hardly catastrophic unless you really thought he was a likely winner rather than an outside chance.

shakey88

acidstrato wrote:

made for good telly though

wiggins is far from out of it where as lance has had it now, be interesting to see developments this week in the shack

Taxi for Armstrong!

gavintc

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Sky believed their own Wiggins hype, while we didn't.
Simple.

Criticism is always easy and cheap. Do you think Sky (a brand new team) would reveal the depth of their weaknesses. They have sponsors to convince and a commitment for the long term to allow development.

squired

Getting on the front got the "Sky" brand some air time, so in that sense I'm sure they can be happy. Today was the sort of day when Bradley should have been there with the best. If he struggles on a day like this I can't see him doing well on the Tourmalet.

Sky is a big name team with mainly second rate riders. Yes EBH is very talented, but the Tour is probably too soon for him after his injury. Thomas is showing some potential, but he needs another year.

Has anyone seen any of the usual rumours about rider transfers for next season? I'm sure the papers in Europe are starting to talk about who might move where. One would imagine Sky having their eye on one or two decent climbers.

Bakunin

Blazing is correct -- Sky think they are the bees knees, yet there isn't much going on there (with the exception of EBH).

It made no sense putting the team on the front. Nothing was accomplished today.

Wiggo is no climber.

Get the shovel, time to bury Wiggo/Sky for this tour.

ddraver

acidstrato wrote:

made for good telly though

wiggins is far from out of it ....

I hope so mate I really hope so but got to be honest I'm not so sure Top 10 will be a dissapointing result for Wiggo/Sky (but they won't sell it as such)

iainf72

I won't be surprised to see Löfkvist finish higher up the GC than Wiggins.

thamacdaddy

Wait a minute it rather sad when an experienced ds, Sean Yates, who is the one who calls the tactics not brailsford is labelled naive an inexperienced.

The tactic was sound, shell Armstrong after he fought to get back on the peloton. Brad admitted he felt great at that point and I am sure e was asked before they made the call. He just didn't have it when it came to the last climb and has said he is struggling in the heat and knows he didn't have what it takes today. People read far more into a day that doesn't quite work out than there is sometimes.

tour newbie

Sky have cleary ruffled a few feathers and among those that are motivated enough to comment here, there are a number of Sky detractors; I'm sure you have your reasons.

As for today, Wiggins simply didn't have the legs and was honest enough to admit as much. Whether or not he had any teammates in the lead group is somewhat irrelevant; if he had the capacity to stay with the leaders he would have (see Evans, Leipheimer, Van Den Broeck, Sastre...). A teammate may have helped him limit his losses but perhaps Lovkvist did just that (wherever he appeared from?).

Coriander

Methinks that Brailsford is discovering that there are slightly more less easily controlled variables in a 3 week Grand Tour than there are in track racing.

thamacdaddy

Coriander wrote:

Methinks that Brailsford is discovering that there are slightly more less easily controlled variables in a 3 week Grand Tour than there are in track racing.

Silly comment really read some interviews he has said the same himself before, he knows it's a harder task than track, having achieved all he can there really I expect that's what is so appealling about it.

rick_chasey

mididoctors wrote:

some of the lads may come better in the third

so I am more forgiving.... see sylvester for LIQ... riding himself in?

Or still tired from the Giro?

iainf72

Rick Chasey wrote:

Or still tired from the Giro?

Being rested for week 3. No point in him riding in the front group when his job is rip it up in the 3rd week

DaveyL

Coriander wrote:

Methinks that Brailsford is discovering that there are slightly more less easily controlled variables in a 3 week Grand Tour than there are in track racing.

Can we have an Official Bikeradar Moron prize for everyone who trots this out?

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

Can we have an Official Bikeradar Moron prize for everyone who trots this out?

First prize is a Power Balance bracelet as worn by Bradleeeeeee....

DaveyL

That seems a bit generous given the talent on display.

fastercyclist

I doubt this is going to be the last time Brad loses time to the GC favourites. It's just going to get worse as people begin attacking Contador; I think the weakness of Contador being revealed is going to spell the end for Wiggins as the real climbers begin probing for opportunities.

Using his team to get rid of the shack was also a mistake as the Shack have an interest in the same kind of riding as Sky - put a steady tempo up front so their guy doesn't get dropped.

I don't really take much pleasure in seeing this situation as Wiggins unfortunately put all his eggs in one basket. But I still find it absurd to just go with the flow all year then expect to win the Tour. It takes a certain psychology to do that, a la Armstrong; Brad hasn't got that. He needs to get out and win in the Spring of '11 then we'll see if he can do the real deal in the Tour.