Positive UK test thread

2

Comments

  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    bicyclepirate wrote:
    Surely it's only libel if its untrue, which is pretty easy to find out. Just ask the guy / or his lawyer and give them the right of reply?
    However the information proving what you say is true has to be in the public arena at the time the 'libel' is made. If you 'libel' someone and then afterwards absolute proof comes out that you were speaking the truth, you have still committed a libel. No wonder so many are calling for UK libel law to be reformed.
  • bicyclepirate
    bicyclepirate Posts: 229
    thanks BB, now i know what Ben Goldacre is going on about!
    All hail the FSM and his noodly appendage!
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    due process is fair...its better than the trial by forum you and your friends run on here everyday of the week on Armtrong
    Clearly the libel- wary staff of BR don't feel there is any chance of legal action arising from comments made about Armstrong. Which itself says a lot. :wink:

    it's still trial by forum.....maybe you should go public with your evidence?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    due process is fair...its better than the trial by forum you and your friends run on here everyday of the week on Armtrong
    Clearly the libel- wary staff of BR don't feel there is any chance of legal action arising from comments made about Armstrong. Which itself says a lot. :wink:
    it's still trial by forum.....maybe you should go public with your evidence?
    As you wish. :wink:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12703967
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    due process is fair...its better than the trial by forum you and your friends run on here everyday of the week on Armtrong
    Clearly the libel- wary staff of BR don't feel there is any chance of legal action arising from comments made about Armstrong. Which itself says a lot. :wink:
    it's still trial by forum.....maybe you should go public with your evidence?
    As you wish. :wink:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12703967

    But if you go public, LA knows who you are.Armstrong reads this threads I am certain.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    due process is fair...its better than the trial by forum you and your friends run on here everyday of the week on Armtrong
    Clearly the libel- wary staff of BR don't feel there is any chance of legal action arising from comments made about Armstrong. Which itself says a lot. :wink:
    it's still trial by forum.....maybe you should go public with your evidence?
    As you wish. :wink:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12703967

    But if you go public, LA knows who you are.Armstrong reads this threads I am certain.

    LA doesn't look at the Pro Race forum but he frequently checks the Girls in Lycra Shorts thread and he has read the Speedking BE WARNED!!! thread several times, citing it as freakin' hilarious. This very afternoon, in fact, he blamed wiggle for radioshack not getting an invite to the vuelta.
    LanceArmstrong wrote:
    Damn, no invite to the Vuelta, douchebags. #IBlameWiggle
  • Homer J
    Homer J Posts: 920
    Oi! you two, you got your Lance thread take it back over there :evil:
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    John Stevenson wrote:
    rockmount, if unpleasant practices are brought to our attention, we act on them. As stfc1 points out, there's nothing new about this - it's one of the things the alert system (the exclamation mark up there ^ ) is for.

    Beyond that, at the moment there's nothing to cover as it's all rumour. Unsurprisingly, the testing and sporting authorities decline to comment on rumour.
    And the libel in this thread just hasn't been brought to your attention I guess ??
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    AFAIK he held his hands up so no further testing required.
    British Cycling Rules wrote:
    14.3 Reporting under the Code
    The number of Adverse Analytical Findings and Anti-Doping Rule Violations
    arising under these Rules shall be publicly reported by the NADO, as a
    minimum on a quarterly basis.

    So every quarter they have to publish the number of failed tests, given that these reportedly happened in March, it should have already been announced how many there were in that quarter. (ie, any 3 month period that includes march has passed now...) So BC's own rules should tell us if there were any failed tests in that time.

    Can't see where they report this, but the BC site is rather poor since the relaunch.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    It's not a failed test until the B-sample confirms it.

    Yes it can take time for the second test to happen but probably not this long. But don't assume there is some cover up, instead it is just taking time to get everything in place. There's nothing to be gained by delay here.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    If to be held to be positive an 'A' sample must be backed up with a positive 'B' sample then I wonder why this thread about the 'A' sample result for Riccardo Ricco's girlfriend wasn't pulled as well...

    Ricco's Missus positive for CERA

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... ardo+ricco

    Then again, she wasn't British... :wink:
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Because the story about Rossi was all over the media, the forum was just commentating on an already published story.

    So far no one has published the story in Britain. Although there is a cryptic reference at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... evels.html
    Cycling Weekly believes that anti-doping testers have already been target testing at some cycling events. We also believe that there is currently a case pending involving a British cyclist. Neither UK Anti-Doping or British Cycling would comment on this matter

    There's also a suspiciously handy article from Cycling Weekly here:
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... tocol.html
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    So I could go positive, BC will keep it quiet and if I choose not to have the B sample tested,, the press won't touch it.

    What a result!
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    No, it'll come out in time.

    Maybe we're all too used to things leaking and the UCI wading in to make a mess of it. At the same time, it's not exactly going to shake the sport that much.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Kléber wrote:

    Maybe we're all too used to things leaking and the UCI wading in to make a mess of it. At the same time, it's not exactly going to shake the sport that much.

    That was my point in the original thread. It's refreshing to see results not leak.

    That said, it's a lot easier with a nobody, because a pro will be suspended from competition and it becomes obvious.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • John Stevenson
    John Stevenson Posts: 962
    Declining a B-test is taken as an admission. You will eventually cop a sanction, and that will be announced. This happens pretty often with minor riders.
    John Stevenson
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Kléber wrote:
    Because the story about Rossi was all over the media, the forum was just commentating on an already published story.
    But from a legal standpoint repeating a 'libel' that is already in the public arena is still a libel...
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Yes but in reality once it's out there, it is unlikely Rossi is going to sue 100 newspapers, 250 websites and 500 bloggers. Safety in numbers...

    This is a forum and not a test lab for high journalism. I can live with forum moderation and double standards, it's part of the way the net works.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    John Stevenson wrote:
    Declining a B-test is taken as an admission. You will eventually cop a sanction, and that will be announced. This happens pretty often with minor riders.

    "Eventually" is the problem, and if the B test was declined the failure by BC to meet their own anti doping rules and announce the positive result already is a cover up and makes a mockery of their anti-doping credentials.

    If they're happy to delay and cover up and try to sweep under the carpet minor tests, what are they doing to their pro level riders - helping them cheat?
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • John Stevenson
    John Stevenson Posts: 962
    The curious legal fiction forums have to operate under is that publishers don't actively moderate them - we act only when issues are drawn to our attention. Please don't ask me to explain this or I'll start to drool and gibber.

    In the Vania Rossi case though, the A-test positive had been announced by the Italian Olympic Committee. That's not a report with any likelihood of giving rise to a successful cause of action in libel.
    John Stevenson
  • Hibbs
    Hibbs Posts: 291
    John Stevenson wrote:
    Declining a B-test is taken as an admission. You will eventually cop a sanction, and that will be announced. This happens pretty often with minor riders.

    Pretty often? Is it common for minor riders to be done for drugs then?

    I'm wondering why I'm bothering getting back into racing now.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    John Stevenson wrote:
    In the Vania Rossi case though, the A-test positive had been announced by the Italian Olympic Committee.
    Only after it had leaked and spread everywhere.
  • John Stevenson
    John Stevenson Posts: 962
    jibberjim, if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you phone up BC and find out what's going on?

    Or do you really believe being a forum drug warrior will change anything?
    John Stevenson
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    John Stevenson wrote:
    jibberjim, if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you phone up BC and find out what's going on?

    Or do you really believe being a forum drug warrior will change anything?

    As Editor in Chief for Future Cycling does what is looking like an attempt on a cover up or at the least deny knowledge of a positive test by a national federation bother you?

    Dirty riders give exciting performances and help sell magazines so maybe it isn't in your interests to have a clean sport? If BC are complicit in keeping these results quiet then how many are there where people have kept quiet about the results?

    We are just cycling ans voicing our opinion on a forum. You are accredited journalists who should really be looking for the truth.

    You're either part of the solution or part of the problem.
  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    As Editor in Chief for Future Cycling does what is looking like an attempt on a cover up or at the least deny knowledge of a positive test by a national federation bother you?

    It's called due process. There'd be a chorus of complaints if doping charges were thrown out by CAS because due process wasn't followed.
    @stagehopper
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    John Stevenson wrote:
    jibberjim, if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you phone up BC and find out what's going on?

    I've emailed BC, they pointed me to the http://www.ukad.org.uk/violations which states clearly that there are no failed tests in March under British Cycling. Which I think is extremely clear that the information in this thread is wrong (ie there was no positive test in March)

    Or it's being covered up - I've asked BC to end the speculation by making an explicit press release saying there were no positive controls in the first quarter - which will hopefully end the speculation, or allow for those with the information that there was to come forward to prove that British Cycling are covering up.

    As a Journalist, what have you do done about the story?
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    I can't say much more but really, don't assume there's a cover up.

    Any journalist asking will get told a similar thing. It's one thing to know something, another to publish it. Just because you know something does not mean it's fit to publish.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Maybe John is in full possession of the facts and either a) There is nothing to report or b) He / his legal advisors have advised that the information cannot yet be divulged? If it is a BC rule that any positive tests have to be reported within three months surely any concerned BC member can just email them and ask for that information? Anyone fancy trying?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited June 2010
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

    As Editor in Chief for Future Cycling does what is looking like an attempt on a cover up or at the least deny knowledge of a positive test by a national federation bother you?

    Dirty riders give exciting performances and help sell magazines so maybe it isn't in your interests to have a clean sport? If BC are complicit in keeping these results quiet then how many are there where people have kept quiet about the results?

    We are just cycling ans voicing our opinion on a forum. You are accredited journalists who should really be looking for the truth.

    You're either part of the solution or part of the problem.

    There is no cover up. BC are just following their protocols. When they've had the hearing they'll post the decision. The person involved isn't Wiggins or Cavendish, it's an amateur in regional races. He probably stacks shelves for Tesco or answers phones for the council. A nobody that few have heard of in a race few care about.

    This is a complete non-story. The cycling press have better things to write about and they're probably quite busy. When a sanction is issued it will probably get a paragraph in Cycling Weekly at the most. You seem to think this is some huge scoop that will knock Rob Green off the back of The Sun.

    If a house in your street gets burgled, it's big news in your street. But BBC News and The Times don't report it. Is this because they're complicit in a cover-up, keeping the burglar omerta alive? No. It's because no-one's really interested.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Positive tests have to be reported but that doesn't mean the A-sample the moment the lab raises a question mark. If it goes to a panel or the B-sample, then it's still under investigation and analysis and until everyone agrees, it's not as such a positive test.

Categories