Too many riders getting hit / killed by drivers.

Ron Stuart

Rob Spedding wrote:

So what do you all think to this campaign?

http://magazine.bikeradar.com/2011/01/2 ... a-cyclist/

Nothing wrong with this approach but it alone won't be enough, we as far as the roads are concerned definitely in a 'broken society' and even to stand a chance of reversing these attitudes there has to be a range of measures taken to repair the problem.
There has to be identified measures that have to be prioritized, how about the Vehicle Excise Duty being used in whole within the transport remit to in part fund better control over the behavior of our road use. That may take the form of funding better the successful prosecution of offending drivers along with a much stricter sentencing policy, we have to influence the need for responsible journalism and lean heavily on the mindless anti-cyclist rant that inhabits our media.
These are just a few ideas that come straight to mind but overall we need a unified national approach to what is becoming a gladiatorial battle for the roads. :?

Ron Stuart

Rob Spedding wrote:

So what do you all think to this campaign?

http://magazine.bikeradar.com/2011/01/2 ... a-cyclist/

And another thing, as they say..... What about rewards for information leading to the arrest of hit and run drivers that seem to be making the news lately :?:
The police just seem to put a few notices at the side of the road where a serious incident occurred or say in a newspaper that they are interested in hearing any information regarding blah, blah, blah. Then walk away from the case.
We need to treat these incidents with much more respect, god knows some of the bereaved relations and injured cyclist deserved a whole lot better.
The idea that a vehicle driver can mow down a cyclist in broad daylight and kill them and be only guilty of driving without due care is an insult to the common sense and time something better was done about it, a real message needs to be made and the sooner the better.
Take the reward money out of the vehicle excise duty that would have just gone straight into the baby faced chancellors pocket. :x

spen666

Ron,

The payment of reward money is nothing like as simple as your post suggests for several reasons:

a) if reward money is paid from VED, then this wil leave the governemnt needing to raise extra taxes to off set the shortfall in income. Perhaps a cycle excise tax would be considered

b) Paying a reward MAY lead to compromising of evidence. The person getting the reward would be seen as potentially having a motive to give evidence that is not necessarily true - it is not as simple as paying rewards for all information.

I am not saying it is not possible, just it is not as easy as your post may lead people to assume

Ron Stuart

Spen.

Nothing these days seems simple but is that a reason for not giving some thought to the problem?

Regards:-

a) How many cyclists also pay VED and if there was a drop in the number of accidents due to bad driving then presumably there would be a fall in the cost of emergency call outs and follow up medical treatment, supplied by the NHS, Police and Ambulance Services. Also how do you feel about a lot of the funds raised by VED being in the main bleed away from further investment in the roads and road safety?

b) Reward money is only trying to get the people the police are trying to contact to come forward with information that may result in a successful prosecution.
This would be the type of information that the police are already asking for but a lot of witnesses are not coming forward.
Can't imagining people wishing to perjure themselves with false info, the courts look dimly upon it.

As for the ease of this, the Police already advertise by the road and in the press if it is a serious incident and all they have to do is add the reward notice.

The only thing difficult is getting the Luddites to agree to it and after all it's some of the folk with tax discs that are the culprits of this type of crime and some don’t have tax discs or insurance either..
Wouldn't you like to think that some of your VED was being used to bring some of the hit and run drivers to justice and help make cycling safer? :P

spen666

Ron Stuart wrote:

Spen.

.....

b) Reward money is only trying to get the people the police are trying to contact to come forward with information that may result in a successful prosecution.
This would be the type of information that the police are already asking for but a lot of witnesses are not coming forward.
Can't imagining people wishing to perjure themselves with false info, the courts look dimly upon it.

Wake up and smell the coffee (aka bribe) It happens every single day of the week in criminal cases across the country.

Do you know how many paid police informants there are? Many of these will tell their handler what they think he wants to hear to get a reward/ to get an enemy or rival locked up

As for the ease of this, the Police already advertise by the road and in the press if it is a serious incident and all they have to do is add the reward notice.

What part of its not as simple as that do you not understand.

Paying inducements to people to give evidence often results in criminal cases being halted. It was made iullegal for newspapers to pay witnesses or agree deals before trials exactly because of the risk of false evidence

The only thing difficult is getting the Luddites to agree to it and after all it's some of the folk with tax discs that are the culprits of this type of crime and some don’t have tax discs or insurance either..
Wouldn't you like to think that some of your VED was being used to bring some of the hit and run drivers to justice and help make cycling safer? :P

I would much prefer it if money was not spent in such a way as increasing the risk of trials being stopped because they are tainted by cash inducements


I would also like to know how you are going to make up the shortfall in tax revenue? How about a cyclists excise tax as a way of making up the lost income? Is that amenable to you

pinno

Lets kick off the 'Shoot Clarkson Campaign' (see post)
A change in the judicial process, have a look at the debate. Changing attitudes is not enough.
(For the morons - I do not want to actually shoot Mr Clarkson, it is metaphorical, its about changing the attitude that he promotes)

progolfer1

I live in a town where we have a higher cycling population than the national average. But has anyone considered that some of the cyclists are at fault. Before throwing stones at car drivers and saying they need retrained how about we sort our own house first. Let me give you an example. Today sat 1 dec 2012 while sitting outside a café drinking coffee after cycling here myself I watch 16 cyclists pass me in 30 mins. A quick breakdown shows that most about 50% are cycling normally and within the law. the other 50% aren't there's one cycling with no hands at all in traffic, there's 3 on mobile phones and shopping on the bars there 2 with headphones in that look like they should be on a house stereo, and there's one cycling down a one way street the wrong way. Most of them that are breaking the law will cycle later with no lights on thier bikes in the town using only the street lights, to see by unfortunately they will also be wearing dark clothes. This happens every day in my town. How can we blame a driver for hitting a cyclist that so blatantly has no respect for the law or other road users. Sort our house first then sort someone else's. I do respect the other peoples views when it comes to pure bad driving but how many accidents could have been caused by bad cycling?, its so easy to blame someone else's group than our own.

mybreakfastconsisted

Your anecdotes are fascinating but tell us very little about the causes of accidents. Other, more scientific research says unlit cyclists account for a tiny number of accidents, fewer than 2%, and a lot of the other "offences" you mention aren't offences at all. If you want to make the roads safer then address the behaviour that makes roads dangerous- driver's behaviour, it is drivers who are usually at fault in vehicle/cyclist collisions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... ents-study

spen666

progolfer1 wrote:

I live in a town where we have a higher cycling population than the national average. But has anyone considered that some of the cyclists are at fault. Before throwing stones at car drivers and saying they need retrained how about we sort our own house first. Let me give you an example. Today sat 1 dec 2012 while sitting outside a café drinking coffee after cycling here myself I watch 16 cyclists pass me in 30 mins. A quick breakdown shows that most about 50% are cycling normally and within the law. the other 50% aren't there's one cycling with no hands at all in traffic, there's 3 on mobile phones and shopping on the bars there 2 with headphones in that look like they should be on a house stereo, and there's one cycling down a one way street the wrong way. Most of them that are breaking the law will cycle later with no lights on thier bikes in the town using only the street lights, to see by unfortunately they will also be wearing dark clothes. This happens every day in my town. How can we blame a driver for hitting a cyclist that so blatantly has no respect for the law or other road users. Sort our house first then sort someone else's. I do respect the other peoples views when it comes to pure bad driving but how many accidents could have been caused by bad cycling?, its so easy to blame someone else's group than our own.

A strange post.

I agree that as cyclists we need to ensure we act in a legal and safe manner, but the fact another cyclist bereaks the law does not excuse anyone else breaking the law wether motorist or not.

Of the list of people you list as breaking the law, the only one apparently committing an offence is the one riding the wrong way down a one way street. The other's actions may be foolish and not what you would do, but doesn't make it illegal.

As for your assertion

Most of them that are breaking the law will cycle later with no lights on thier bikes in the town using only the street lights, to see by unfortunately they will also be wearing dark clothes.

There is absolutely no evidence to support this. The person who rode thee wrong way down the one way street may or may not ride a bike at night. He may or may not have lights on. You are asserting your prejudices on others with no basis in fact at all

earth

I think drivers licences should last for 5 years then have to be renewed by passing a refresher test. The quality of driving would appreciate.

dnwhite88

Learner drivers are taught to give cyclists plenty of room in case they sway out when passed at speed so I don't think it's a problem with people not knowing to give room it's them choosing not to care. It is another example of this country's loathing of cyclists (although those same people probably celebrated the gold medals brought in during the Olympics by cyclists) which could take a long time to change. On the other hand there could be steps taken to improve some cyclists disregard for the rules of the road which understandably angers motorists and damages our case to be seen as equals on the road

snorri

Or to modify slightly the last sentence in the previous post...
There could be steps taken to improve some drivers disregard for the rules of the road which understandably angers cyclists and leads them to believe they too can flout the law.
I really don't get this theory re sorting out our own house first before finding fault in other user groups, it is quite clear many drivers have no such concerns.
There are, and always will be, a minority of members of each group whose actions will smear the reputation of the majority.

gary.hounsome

not even the police give you enough room, I was out the other day with another cyclist coming the other way with a police car behind him, rather than wait until we passed each other he drove straight through the middle of us not giving either of us much room, there will always be ignorant people out there.

RonB

A good article from Carbon Addiction following an accident in Austrailia -

http://carbonaddiction.net/2014/03/17/10-things-i-wish-would-happen/

rickeverett

The main problem is a lot of cycles also ride into dangerous situations.

Even filtering down the left hand side of qued traffic is dangerous but many go way too fast.

I dont commute through a town or ride in towns / cities a lot because if where I live, however when driving in town and even on a recent trip to London, cycling behaviour is mixed.

A lot don't look behind or indicate, others weave and dive around. No matter how much you look and observe as a driver behaviour like that can get a cycle in danger.


I seriously think thee needs to be a focus on cycling ability too.
People learn to drive etc, but many just don't do the basics like observation, signalling, speed or anticipation / judgement when on a bike!!