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Too many riders getting hit / killed by drivers.

Karl2010Karl2010 Posts: 511
edited April 2014 in Campaign
This is probaly a common thread but, what can be done about this?

Id suggest changing the way people are taught to drive and also the final examination.
An extra test to prove new drivers understand, appreciate & respect cyclists on the road.

Also a 12 month driving campain via TV & Radio, to raise awareness.

The "THINK BIKE" campaign seems so week and is mainly aimed at motor cycles.
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Posts

  • Heckler1974Heckler1974 Posts: 479
    Best of luck with this, when you see drivers under instruction pulling into the ASL and passing so close as they pass I could smell the instructor's aftershave I really don't see how extra lessons will make a difference.
  • Karl2010Karl2010 Posts: 511
    Not extra lessons! Better teaching! Drive the point home about cyclists (over taking speeds, distances, abuse etc..)

    A stronger Media drive would be better. TV,Radio, Newspapers, Magazines
  • BunnehBunneh Posts: 1,329
    Completely off the top of my head, haven't thought this through but;

    Every road in the UK (which would be so overly priced so it wouldn't happen) would be fitted with a small device which spreads across the road at the start and the end. Each car has a mandatory device fitted which reads these strips and the strip tells the car how fast it can go.

    So for a built up area the car would enter and would immediately have its speed reduced to say 20mph, soon as you hit a motorway the strips on the road would tell the car it can go over 80mph. Similar strips for built up areas, people in the town/city could vote on how fast they want cars going in their area.

    Yes I know it won't work, and yes I know it'd be expensive and yes I know it's a daft idea.

    Incidently I nearly got knocked off my bike last night by my window cleaner, shame he didn't clip me, I could have had free window cleaning for life!
  • ChrisszChrissz Posts: 727
    Speed cameras, strips GPS tracking - whatever. None of these will stop left hookers, SMIDSYs, squeezes & close passes - merely (perhaps) slow them down slightly.
  • volvicsparvolvicspar Posts: 208
    New drivers aren't the problem. It gets rattled out over and over that we need better testing and what not. We don't, in my opinion.

    The problem is what happens after the test and a lack of policing. Compulsory retesting every 2 years would be a better option.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    More of an emphasis on giving cyclists room when overtaking them would be welcome. Is there a minimum distance - I don't know - but something like don't pass within 2 metres of a cyclist when overtaking would be welcome - just something to make vehicles wait until there is room to overtake rather than forcing their way past whatever.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Heckler1974Heckler1974 Posts: 479
    More of an emphasis on giving cyclists room when overtaking them would be welcome. Is there a minimum distance - I don't know - but something like don't pass within 2 metres of a cyclist when overtaking would be welcome - just something to make vehicles wait until there is room to overtake rather than forcing their way past whatever.

    According to the Highway code rule 163 : •give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car.
  • cedargreencedargreen Posts: 189
    The driving test is still mainly about driving and doesn't include enough about vulnerable road users, including cyclists. It should stress the right of cyclists/ pedestrians/ horses etc to be on the road which is a public highway despite now being dominated by cars. A compulsory cycling session as part of learning to drive would help. And policing the roads properly instead of just using speed cameras might adress poor driving standards.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    cedargreen wrote:
    The driving test is still mainly about driving .;...

    The clue is in the title !!!


    Its a bit like complaining that your maths exam is about maths or your history exam dwelt too much on past events
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

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  • bryanmbryanm Posts: 218
    Based upon several instances this week, the first step should be stop learners from driving cars without qualified driving instructors. Although having followed home a learner in a driving school car today, who drove at less than 20mph through a 30 zone for about 2 miles I'm not sure that's the answer either!
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    Its an attitude/cultural thing in this country. Here we see a rule and a fair proportion of us ignore it or flout it, speeding, traffic lights, level crossings etc In Germany the culture is to obey rules so less problems with minor law breaking. How do we change it, I don't really know, it could take generations before we see anything. In fact I think that cyclists will only be taken seriously when all the petrol has run out and motorist haul themselves out of their cages and cough and wheeze their way onto a bike.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,523
    Well, it's not much but I've ALWAYS tried to get eye contact with drivers I'm in traffic with.
    I think it makes both them and I more alert to try and prevent ANY bad situation from happening. Neither driver nor cyclist really wants anything to happen other than each going on their way.
  • I am seriously thinking about have my blood group displayed on the back a cycling jersey with the words beneath reading "Just In Case" Such is the state of British drivers. Everytime I go out I have at least 10 near misses! On the whole Britsh drivers don't give a fck!

    Stevie.
  • kitsunegarikitsunegari Posts: 131
    Drivers in Cambridge are an odd bunch. Given that it is such a cycling town, one would think they would have some respect for us. I get passed so close on my cycle to work so many times I've gotten slowly used to it now.

    More driving lessons is not the answer. You cannot teach manners.
  • angry_birdangry_bird Posts: 3,784
    In my driving lessons i was always taught to pass a cyclist 2m to the side to give them enough room, and i always do, although i think that's partly because I was riding bikes before i was driving and understood having space between me and the car.

    I volunteer at a disabled riding school, and in the summer we take the ride down the lanes by the school, now obviously we encounter cars, cyclists, occasional lorry, i'd say 10% of them don't slow down at all and go roaring past... its all very well not wanting to be held up, but spooking a horse like that is plain dangerous and has caused an accident before now. Thankfully the other 90% seem to be decent, sensible drivers. But its not just cyclists who don't get treated well on roads

    I found these the other day, was considering getting one but couldn't justify the shipping charges :roll: http://www.sharethedamnroad.com/
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    In my driving lessons i was always taught to pass a cyclist 2m to the side to give them enough room, and i always do, although i think that's partly because I was riding bikes before i was driving and understood having space between me and the car.

    I volunteer at a disabled riding school, and in the summer we take the ride down the lanes by the school, now obviously we encounter cars, cyclists, occasional lorry, i'd say 10% of them don't slow down at all and go roaring past... its all very well not wanting to be held up, but spooking a horse like that is plain dangerous and has caused an accident before now. Thankfully the other 90% seem to be decent, sensible drivers. But its not just cyclists who don't get treated well on roads

    I found these the other day, was considering getting one but couldn't justify the shipping charges :roll: http://www.sharethedamnroad.com/

    I remember driving on a rural road in Cambs about 20 years ago and passing a horse and rider.Looked in the mirror a little way down the road to see the horse out of control. I hadn't slowed down in passing, although I gave a wide berth. I didn't know that horses did that. The only horses I'd seen before were in London and used to traffic.
    So something specific about animals in the Driving Test would be good. Or horses shouldn't be on the road unless there rider can guarantee their behaviour. Not sure which really.
    Tally ho and pip pip.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • angry_birdangry_bird Posts: 3,784
    iainment

    The problem is the real lack of bridleways in many areas of the country, we've got two riding schools literally next door to eachother, they've been there for years yet if you want to get out of the schools the roads are the only options, and the temperatures in the schools get stupid in summer. Fortunately for our disabled riders we have a leader with each horse too just incase something goes wrong, but when a horse starts to throw its weight around people get hurt:roll:
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    iainment wrote:
    In my driving lessons i was always taught to pass a cyclist 2m to the side to give them enough room, and i always do, although i think that's partly because I was riding bikes before i was driving and understood having space between me and the car.

    I volunteer at a disabled riding school, and in the summer we take the ride down the lanes by the school, now obviously we encounter cars, cyclists, occasional lorry, i'd say 10% of them don't slow down at all and go roaring past... its all very well not wanting to be held up, but spooking a horse like that is plain dangerous and has caused an accident before now. Thankfully the other 90% seem to be decent, sensible drivers. But its not just cyclists who don't get treated well on roads

    I found these the other day, was considering getting one but couldn't justify the shipping charges :roll: http://www.sharethedamnroad.com/

    I remember driving on a rural road in Cambs about 20 years ago and passing a horse and rider.Looked in the mirror a little way down the road to see the horse out of control. I hadn't slowed down in passing, although I gave a wide berth. I didn't know that horses did that. The only horses I'd seen before were in London and used to traffic.
    So something specific about animals in the Driving Test would be good. Or horses shouldn't be on the road unless there rider can guarantee their behaviour. Not sure which really.
    Tally ho and pip pip.

    How about motor vehicles should not be on the road unless drivers can guarantee their behaviour?
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    spen666 wrote:
    iainment wrote:
    In my driving lessons i was always taught to pass a cyclist 2m to the side to give them enough room, and i always do, although i think that's partly because I was riding bikes before i was driving and understood having space between me and the car.

    I volunteer at a disabled riding school, and in the summer we take the ride down the lanes by the school, now obviously we encounter cars, cyclists, occasional lorry, i'd say 10% of them don't slow down at all and go roaring past... its all very well not wanting to be held up, but spooking a horse like that is plain dangerous and has caused an accident before now. Thankfully the other 90% seem to be decent, sensible drivers. But its not just cyclists who don't get treated well on roads

    I found these the other day, was considering getting one but couldn't justify the shipping charges :roll: http://www.sharethedamnroad.com/

    I remember driving on a rural road in Cambs about 20 years ago and passing a horse and rider.Looked in the mirror a little way down the road to see the horse out of control. I hadn't slowed down in passing, although I gave a wide berth. I didn't know that horses did that. The only horses I'd seen before were in London and used to traffic.
    So something specific about animals in the Driving Test would be good. Or horses shouldn't be on the road unless there rider can guarantee their behaviour. Not sure which really.
    Tally ho and pip pip.

    How about motor vehicles should not be on the road unless drivers can guarantee their behaviour?

    Of course, the point I was making though was to add animal awareness into driver training. So that there are less chances of learning by mistake.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,832 Lives Here
    Drivers in Cambridge are an odd bunch. Given that it is such a cycling town, one would think they would have some respect for us. I get passed so close on my cycle to work so many times I've gotten slowly used to it now.

    More driving lessons is not the answer. You cannot teach manners.

    Familiarity breeds contempt.
  • I was knocked off my bike yesterday by a very rude lady...i had to peel myself off the street and hobble the 50ft to her car, (she obviously had no intention of getting out to offer any aid) just to hear her scream at me about how i shouldnt be on the road at all...and how i had swerved right into the middle of the road right before she hit me from behind...(that's why i hit the side of her car???)...she then left the scene without offering her identity, or any kind of help...

    Anyway, so i here i sit with multiple contusions and a bike helmet that's split right down the middle, thinking how incredibly lucky i got...

    And i wonder, is it really that much of a stretch to hope that a person driving a motor vehicle would actually wait 15 seconds for traffic to pass, instead of putting my life at risk?
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Hope you got her number.
    A few weeks ago a similar thing happened to my son - woman turned right, across his lane, and hit him, bike a bit wrecked but he was ok.
    She too just screamed at him, and drove off into a parking lot. Fortunately there were plenty of witnesses, who helped him, got her number etc. All quite incensed at her actions, and gave me statements.
    Her insurers have accepted liability, just waiting to agree an amount, but people like that shouldn't be allowed back on the road.
    Mistakes happen, but failing to stop and help, not just illegal, but what sort of person is that?
    I don't do smileys.

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  • jeannot18jeannot18 Posts: 720
    I am actually getting more and more nervous about going out riding. i usually go out on small country roads, and I have at least 1 near miss every time. Don't want to generalise but usually vans driver are the worst. Or like a few weeks back, a campervan overtook me, it was about 1 feet away from my side, and if this was not enough he cut me off with the back of his vehicle a few inches from my front wheel. There was no incoming traffic, so he had all the room to overtake. I guess he was making his point that cyclists should not be on the road.
    The law should be changed dramatically(?), punishment for hit and run, when caught, should be a deterrent. Remove their license for 10 years, fine them something silly etc.
    The police should setup "Sting" operations. Cops dressed as civilian cycling, with radios. Every time they get a "near miss", call a backup car and fine the bastards, take their details with promises that next time their licence will be revoked. I know i am dreaming but it really gets to me, what is the driver's problem to waste maybe 10 to 20 seconds because they can't pass a cyclist safely and get really annoyed. They can make up that time in the next mile or 2.
    Rant finished
    JC
    Pédale ou crève
    Specialized Elite Allez with 105
    Rockrider 8.1 : )
  • unclemalcunclemalc Posts: 563
    "Well, it's not much but I've ALWAYS tried to get eye contact with drivers I'm in traffic with".

    That's a great bit of advice - approaching drivers who are about to cross in front of you, or who are next to you at lights, or who you are following in 'difficult' traffic... it becomes 'personal' and they may take that second to think twice before being an idiot and killing you.

    The main problem with driving from new is that once behind the wheel you develop habits far removed from the skills that enabled you to pass the 'test'. There is nothing in the test requirements that says you can drive with no hands, or drive with your left hand holding a phone against the right ear while you are turning the wheel with your right hand, trying to corner, or smoking cannabis while driving (it might calm the driver down but him doing it scares the c--p out of me)... etc etc.
    You've all seen it and have your own examples.
    Praise God for the majority of drivers who are aware of road rules, can drive properly and keep a look out.
    As I bounced along the road as a result of some pensioner hooking my bars in their wing mirror, I gave thanks that the motorist immediately behind was NOT picking their nose, changing a cd or quickly looking at a text message, otherwise I would have been killed, just like that.
    Spring!
    Singlespeeds in town rule.
  • I'm thinking of buying a horse to ride alongside me...
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.
  • mrodentmrodent Posts: 10
    Dear all,

    Face the reality: when you put your bum on the bicycle seat and go cycling as you are legally entitled to do in the UK, you are forfeiting a proportion of your rights as a human being (differs in other northern European countries of course).
    In the UK you then have the rights of a dog, or a cat. A driver of a motor vehicle can kill you, maim you or, just as bad, take risks with doing so, and the UK courts will always, even in the worst case, give a sentence reflecting your "reduced rights" status.

    What needs to change:
    1) more ENFORCEMENT. There is no point introducing new laws if enforcement is a joke.
    2) more and longer custodial penalties.
    3) financial penalties which reflect the ability of the offender to pay: a £200 fine means a lot to an unemployed person, and half an hour's pay to a City lawyer. The latter will have to be fined perhaps £40,000 for the same offence.
    4) hundreds of thousands of concealed cameras, on all the roads of Britain, at any spot, at any time of the day, able to be moved about by the police at will, and where the video evidence gathered is able to be used in court.

    These political changes are unlikely to happen soon, but as more and more bereaved families and cyclists who are maimed for life start to form a critical mass, things might start to change. The only people with a vested interest in convincing you otherwise are those who despise all cyclists.

    In the mean time, I urge all cyclists to do what I do: recognise the truth. The truth is, when on the public roads of this country, you have the rights not of a human being but of a dog or a cat. You should behave accordingly. This means, for example, that should never cycle in the midst of a stream of traffic, you should always pull over to the left when you have a motor vehicle on your tail, and you should always cycle as though every motor vehicle is trying to kill you.

    REMEMBER: you are skin and bone, and have only one life. Those slobs are driving metal machines.
  • giant_mangiant_man Posts: 6,890
    I was knocked off my bike yesterday by a very rude lady...i had to peel myself off the street and hobble the 50ft to her car, (she obviously had no intention of getting out to offer any aid) just to hear her scream at me about how i shouldnt be on the road at all...and how i had swerved right into the middle of the road right before she hit me from behind...(that's why i hit the side of her car???)...she then left the scene without offering her identity, or any kind of help...

    Anyway, so i here i sit with multiple contusions and a bike helmet that's split right down the middle, thinking how incredibly lucky i got...

    And i wonder, is it really that much of a stretch to hope that a person driving a motor vehicle would actually wait 15 seconds for traffic to pass, instead of putting my life at risk?
    Tsk dear oh dear, bloody woman .... incredible lack of intelligence there by the sounds of it. You did get her reg number I hope and reported her surely .....
  • Eight club cyclists killed in head-on crash in Italy.

    Police say driver, who was overtaking another car, tested positive for marijuana

    From Associated Press guardian.co.uk,
    Sunday 5 December 2010 16.33 GMT

    A speeding car ploughed head-on into a group of cyclists in southern Italy this morning, killing eight of them. The driver of the car had been smoking marijuana, police said after testing him.

    Four other people were hurt in the crash, on a two-lane road near Lamezia Terme in Calabria, about 200 miles south of Naples.

    The cyclists were all members of a local club. The driver, a Moroccan national who was slightly injured, was arrested.

    A preliminary investigation showed the speeding car ran headfirst into the group of cyclists riding in the opposite direction. Italy's highways agency said the driver was trying to pass another car when he hit the group. Visibility and driving conditions were said to be good at the time.
    You just don't know what could happen to you when your on the open road. A great tradegy.
    The more you spend - the faster you go - the less you see.
  • BozmanBozman Posts: 2,570
    It is odd how cyclists can get knocked off on an open road... probably down to a drug or alcohol fuelled driver or maybe poor visability, but it does surprise me that more aren't knocked off around country lanes! I've nearly been knocked off a couple of times by packs/groups/clubs that ride around tight windy country lanes upto 5 abreast, if i'd been driving a car at the time....god knows!
  • From the point of view of most drivers, cyclists are an obstacle to their progress. They see solutions to "the cycling problem" as measures like increased enforcement against cyclists who go through red lights, ride on pavements etc. Other solutions include cyclists being forced to have insurance, tax discs etc, and making them ride in cycle lanes to get them out of the way of car drivers, even if the cycle lane makes the cyclist give way at frequent intervals. They will not see collisions between cars and cyclists as any sort of problem apart from the inconvenience it causes due to possible damage to the car, hence the desire to make all cyclists have insurance as clearly any collision between a car and a cyclist must be the cyclist's fault for not getting out of their way.
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