Beetroot juice improving performance................YUKI!!!

Velonutter

bompington wrote:

Velonutter wrote:

Just about to try some of these are they come in a vegetarian friendly capsule.

http://www.zipvitsport.co.uk/products/b ... undle.html

These, too, come in a vegetarian friendly package:

- at less than 1% of the price...

Cool :-) yep but you have the taste

woody1545

er...at the risk of being outed as a weirdo I've actually grown to like the taste.

If you really can't stand it, the study below suggests that drinking beetroot juice on the day of the race (rather than the 6 days before) could be worth 45 seconds over 10 miles.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 101744.htm

symo

If you don't like it why not try EPO or amphetamines? :twisted:

Pross

I bought a couple of the shots last week after the Bang Goes The Theory piece on it. I had one before the Little Mountain TT but having never ridden it before it's impossible to tell if I felt any benefit. Took one to my 10 last night but forgot to drink it! Doesn't taste great but the shot sizes are so small it doesn't really matter. The research from the boffins at Exeter Uni were suggesting improvements in power of 17% so despite my scepticism about all such things I thought I'd give it a go (BTW, the shots I bought only said to take 1 about 1 - 3 hours before exercise - no recommendation to dose up on it).

bigpikle

I think the key thing with the shots is the level of concentration - I seem to remember reading you'd need to eat a huge quantity of beetroot to get the same amount of nitrates as a single shot or glass of their concentrated juice.

After being a lifelong hater of beetroots, I actually really liked the juice with a splash of apple juice or the shots which includes some. I bought several bottles of the Beet-It juice when on offer last year in Tesco, and substituted it for my morning glass of OJ. Being n=1 I have no idea if it had an affect, especially given the level of other training I was doing, but I certainly had a good few months!

My question is whether you need it every day to get the effect or just the day of the event?

mrc1

Pross wrote:

The research from the boffins at Exeter Uni were suggesting improvements in power of 17% so despite my scepticism about all such things I thought I'd give it a go (BTW, the shots I bought only said to take 1 about 1 - 3 hours before exercise - no recommendation to dose up on it).

This might be semantics but didn't the study show a 17% improvement in the time one can sustain a certain power output?

So it won't up my (fictional) FTP of 300w to 351w but it may enable me to hold 300w for 71 minutes rather than 60?

bigpikle

it would be nice to get a 17% increase in power though

Given the number of sports teams and athletes now using this stuff, it would suggest some credibility for the product. IIRC the study does refer to changes in performance when the diet was low in nitrates originally, so if you eat a lot of beetroot, spinach etc already then you're already someway there.

danowat

mrc1 wrote:

So it won't up my (fictional) FTP of 300w to 351w but it may enable me to hold 300w for 71 minutes rather than 60?

Yes, this is the point.

I use it for TT's, purely on race day, 400ml at least 2hrs before off, I've found it makes it "easier" to hold onto the upper end for longer.

It won't make you more powerfull or quicker though unfortunately, and it tastes RANK!

Pross

mrc1 wrote:

Pross wrote:

The research from the boffins at Exeter Uni were suggesting improvements in power of 17% so despite my scepticism about all such things I thought I'd give it a go (BTW, the shots I bought only said to take 1 about 1 - 3 hours before exercise - no recommendation to dose up on it).

This might be semantics but didn't the study show a 17% improvement in the time one can sustain a certain power output?

So it won't up my (fictional) FTP of 300w to 351w but it may enable me to hold 300w for 71 minutes rather than 60?

Yep, sorry - crap wording! I guess if you are looking at doing a 23 minute 10 then you would need to know your maximum 20 minute power and could then sustain it for the 23 minutes making you quicker (or something like that!).

Yukirin

www.waitrose.com/webapp/wcs/stores/serv ... reId=10317

got a one of these for the family a couple of weeks back, totally unrelated to this or any media thats about, just because I thought it sounded interesting to taste. Me and the 8 month old loved it, the other 2 didnt. Not sure if it has the quantities you're talking about though.

Garz

Didn't know you had to drink 500ml to 1 litre!

I bought the bottles you can get in the supermarket for around £2.50 each and was drinking a small glass full thinking it was beneficial in the mornings. Having to consume one of those a day is not only vile but would be an expensive habit!

neilrobins

I just found the shots in local health shop, for £1.80 I thought I would give it ago. Did a decent, hilly 50 mile circuit last week which is logged on cycle meter. I could redo route and compare the results but the other external forces could massively distort the numbers. Even if it's a placebo it ain't expensive per ride.

Anne S.

I believe nitrates are commonly used to preserve processed meat, dried fruits and wine. Bacon sarnie anyone?

neilrobins

Ok tried a shot this morning. Taste is very strong but I didn't find it too bad but did follow it with a glass of water. It didnt greatly change my time over the circuit, maybe 3-4 mins which could be done to catching a few more green lights than red. I did feel "stronger" over the whole ride and would have extended it normally so maybe the stamina claim isn't claptrap? Pee was pink. I am doing a 200km ride next weekend and will try it again. My stomach normally struggles the the usual lotions and potions so a natural product is right up my street.

danowat

Anyone noticed anything untoward in regards to heart rate during an event after using Beet juice?

jgsi

I suspect it might be lower...?

danowat

Yes, circa 10bpm, and falling over the course of a race, when power remains the same, I am going to stop using it for a few weeks and see what happens.....

Tom Dean

neilrobins wrote:

Even if it's a placebo it ain't expensive per ride.

what would you consider good value for a placebo?

Herbsman

That made me laugh too. Maybe he's rich

amaferanga

I've got a plentiful supply of placebo pills. Tenner each. Take 5 a day and you'll be flying....

neilrobins

Tom Dean wrote:

neilrobins wrote:

Even if it's a placebo it ain't expensive per ride.

what would you consider good value for a placebo?

As a one off "try it and see" £1.80 is a cheap experiment. If it turns out to help me on longer rides then £1.80 before each proper ride ain't bad. Wouldn't use it consistently due to the strong taste which you could easily grow to hate.

danowat

I am dropping beet juice now, did a test last night and rode a TT without it, and my suspicions were confirmed, taking it affects my CV system in quite a negative way, so no more beet juice for me.

amaferanga

danowat wrote:

I am dropping beet juice now, did a test last night and rode a TT without it, and my suspicions were confirmed, taking it affects my CV system in quite a negative way, so no more beet juice for me.

I guess if you're pacing your TT using HR it could be confusing if the juice lowers your HR by 10bpm, but ultimately its your time/performance that matters isn't it? Were you putting out the same power at the lower bpm and therefore potentially capable of putting out more power at the higher bpm (compared to being un-juiced)?

Davey C

I tried some yesterday, not for me. I don't care if it would help me win the Tour, it tastes vile. :evil:

danowat

amaferanga wrote:

danowat wrote:

I am dropping beet juice now, did a test last night and rode a TT without it, and my suspicions were confirmed, taking it affects my CV system in quite a negative way, so no more beet juice for me.

I guess if you're pacing your TT using HR it could be confusing if the juice lowers your HR by 10bpm, but ultimately its your time/performance that matters isn't it? Were you putting out the same power at the lower bpm and therefore potentially capable of putting out more power at the higher bpm (compared to being un-juiced)?

I don't pace on HR, it was post race analysis, I pace on PE (or power when I use my PT, power was ok to start, but tailed off along with HR, and I couldn't push any harder to raise both power and HR.

It's just my experiance with it, and I personally find it causes more issues than the good affects, for me.

rabk

danowat wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

danowat wrote:

I am dropping beet juice now, did a test last night and rode a TT without it, and my suspicions were confirmed, taking it affects my CV system in quite a negative way, so no more beet juice for me.

I guess if you're pacing your TT using HR it could be confusing if the juice lowers your HR by 10bpm, but ultimately its your time/performance that matters isn't it? Were you putting out the same power at the lower bpm and therefore potentially capable of putting out more power at the higher bpm (compared to being un-juiced)?

I don't pace on HR, it was post race analysis, I pace on PE (or power when I use my PT, power was ok to start, but tailed off along with HR, and I couldn't push any harder to raise both power and HR.

It's just my experiance with it, and I personally find it causes more issues than the good affects, for me.

danowat

My experience mirrors yours. I have been taking beetroot juice for the last 4 weeks and I am noticing a steady drop in performance..........particularly in respect of Heart rate.

On analysis of my garmin files it is clear that i seem to fail at 7 or 8 beats lower than normal.

I have been struggling to pace TT's due to this as I am taking my H/R up to the usual level, but this seems too high - consequently I struggle towards the end of the event. In light of your comments I am starting to wonder if the juice is having a negative effect for me

I have now stopped taking it (as of yesterday) and I'll report back

danowat

At least I am not alone!

Last nights "beet free" TT's was a lot better, certainly enough for me not to use Beet juice again.

I'd been using it since early April, and initial signs were positive, I wonder if its a cumulative affect that compounds itself over a number of weeks?, have any longer term tests been done on Beet juice?, all the tests I've seen have been short term, as in its affects immediately after taking it, or the next day.

rabk

danowat wrote:

At least I am not alone!

Last nights "beet free" TT's was a lot better, certainly enough for me not to use Beet juice again.

I'd been using it since early April, and initial signs were positive, I wonder if its a cumulative affect that compounds itself over a number of weeks?, have any longer term tests been done on Beet juice?, all the tests I've seen have been short term, as in its affects immediately after taking it, or the next day.

My initial feelings were positive too, less burn/fatigue in the legs, but there does seem to be an issue with HR

Had the club TT tonight and H/R still down, as you say it is probably the cumulative effect.

Gonna continue to lay off the Beetroot for a few weeks to see what happens

Alex_Simmons/RST

Rabk wrote:

My experience mirrors yours. I have been taking beetroot juice for the last 4 weeks and I am noticing a steady drop in performance..........particularly in respect of Heart rate.

On analysis of my garmin files it is clear that i seem to fail at 7 or 8 beats lower than normal.

I have been struggling to pace TT's due to this as I am taking my H/R up to the usual level, but this seems too high - consequently I struggle towards the end of the event. In light of your comments I am starting to wonder if the juice is having a negative effect for me

HR is not a measure of performance, power is.
Using HR to pace by can be folly due to the daily variations in HR response.

I'm not questioning if the juice is / isn't helping you, just trying to understand what's actually going on, as HR is misleading and pretty much irrelevant wrt performance. You are either putting out more power or you're not, that's what matters (physiologically).

rabk

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Rabk wrote:

My experience mirrors yours. I have been taking beetroot juice for the last 4 weeks and I am noticing a steady drop in performance..........particularly in respect of Heart rate.

On analysis of my garmin files it is clear that i seem to fail at 7 or 8 beats lower than normal.

I have been struggling to pace TT's due to this as I am taking my H/R up to the usual level, but this seems too high - consequently I struggle towards the end of the event. In light of your comments I am starting to wonder if the juice is having a negative effect for me

HR is not a measure of performance, power is.
Using HR to pace by can be folly due to the daily variations in HR response.

I'm not questioning if the juice is / isn't helping you, just trying to understand what's actually going on, as HR is misleading and pretty much irrelevant wrt performance. You are either putting out more power or you're not, that's what matters (physiologically).

Indeed you are correct Alex,I agree H/R varies according to other circumstances, but the drop has been quite noticeable.

I have been training with/by power since january this year(powertap), haven't used it on the TT bike as yet (Just ordered power cranks for that purpose)

As for my power figures over the last 4 weeks, there has been a small decline ( perhaps 5 -10 watts) based on Average watts over a ride (same circuit)