OT Hung Parliment!
Comments
-
lost_in_thought wrote:I don't know much about this, but it just seems incredibly unfair that the party in the majority (alright, so not enough of a majority) doesn't get to run the country. And that the party that came 3rd gets to basically decide who's in charge.
There is no party with a majority. That's the problem.
In other business I'm sure you all have overlooked the happenings in the constituency of Fermanagh South Tyrone. They are currently on their 6 sixth recount. Sinn Fein lead from the independant Unionist by 2 votes! In each of the previous 5 counts the lead has changed but has never been more than 10 votes.
Anybody know what happens? Do they keep counting til someone gives in?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:..... no one wants to say it but no ouright winner emerged because none of them were good enough..
+1“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:I don't know much about this, but it just seems incredibly unfair that the party in the majority (alright, so not enough of a majority) doesn't get to run the country. And that the party that came 3rd gets to basically decide who's in charge.
There is no party with a majority. That's the problem.
In other business I'm sure you all have overlooked the happenings in the constituency of Fermanagh South Tyrone. They are currently on their 6 sixth recount. Sinn Fein lead from the independant Unionist by 2 votes! In each of the previous 5 counts the lead has changed but has never been more than 10 votes.
Anybody know what happens? Do they keep counting til someone gives in?
OK, the party with more of a majority than any of the other parties.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:I don't know much about this, but it just seems incredibly unfair that the party in the majority (alright, so not enough of a majority) doesn't get to run the country. And that the party that came 3rd gets to basically decide who's in charge.
In countries run by grown up's it's simple, the party or parties with over 50% of the vote get to run it. They might neeed to club together to get to that 50% total. Whats incredibly unfair here is that the party that *only* gets 36% of the vote could get almost half the seats.
The Tories are not popular enough to have enough seats to justify them running the country. They need some degree of support. They need less support than any other party, which is good for them, but they still need some support because they are simply not popular enough. That bit is at least fair.0 -
Isn't the government actually run by civil servants anyway? I doubt they will all be losing their jobs right now, ergo, nowt much will really change.Emerging from under a big black cloud. All help welcome0
-
lost_in_thought wrote:TailWindHome wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:I don't know much about this, but it just seems incredibly unfair that the party in the majority (alright, so not enough of a majority) doesn't get to run the country. And that the party that came 3rd gets to basically decide who's in charge.
There is no party with a majority. That's the problem.
In other business I'm sure you all have overlooked the happenings in the constituency of Fermanagh South Tyrone. They are currently on their 6 sixth recount. Sinn Fein lead from the independant Unionist by 2 votes! In each of the previous 5 counts the lead has changed but has never been more than 10 votes.
Anybody know what happens? Do they keep counting til someone gives in?
OK, the party with more of a majority than any of the other parties.
No
But can we do a deal on 'came closer to getting a majority than any of the other parties'“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:In other business I'm sure you all have overlooked the happenings in the constituency of Fermanagh South Tyrone. They are currently on their 6 sixth recount. Sinn Fein lead from the independant Unionist by 2 votes! In each of the previous 5 counts the lead has changed but has never been more than 10 votes.
Anybody know what happens? Do they keep counting til someone gives in?
Yes. Remember the US Presidential Elections in 2000 ?
Alternatively, someone might realise how many times the same person has voted for Sinn Fein, assuming that the old mantra of "vote early, vote often" still applies ;-)Misguided Idealist0 -
linsen wrote:Isn't the government actually run by civil servants anyway? I doubt they will all be losing their jobs right now, ergo, nowt much will really change.
+ about a million. Yes it is, and it's probably a very good thing.
Their political senior management (aka the government) do get a bit of a say though, they can change things a bit.
Some of them will be losing their jobs and perks in the coming year too.0 -
Whats incredibly unfair here is that the party that *only* gets 36% of the vote could get almost half the seats.
Aye. Some numbers on seats declared so far:
Conservative: 10,213,492 votes (36.0%) 291 seats
Labour: 8,307,487 votes (29.3%) 251 seats
Liberal Democrat: 6,481,602 votes (22.9%) 52 seats0 -
Hey. How about a Lab/Con Govt?
I'll get me coat.....Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
2011 Trek Madone 4.5
2012 Felt F65X
Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter0 -
We had one in the war. Eeeh when aaarrr wurr a lad etc etc...Kieran_Burns wrote:Hey. How about a Lab/Con Govt?
I'll get me coat.....0 -
PMSL.........
Having not been in power for a few years (OK about 90) the libs are not as strongly restrained by the whips as lab/con are, so a lib/lab pact will struggle to retain an effective majority IMHO.
I think a Con/lib 'deal' (not formal coalition) is most likely, this will allow DC to get power, and then the cons will know they will have to have genuine consultation with the libs on each issue (so the libs get more clout than as part of a lib lab pact) to get enough onside to get moves through.
SimonCurrently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
A combo of Con/Lib probably works out best for me - given the online "Who should I vote for - make up my mind for me" questionaires!Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...0
-
The Beginner wrote:Having not been in power for a few years (OK about 90) the libs are not as strongly restrained by the whips as lab/con are, so a lib/lab pact will struggle to retain an effective majority IMHO.
Lib + Lab won't have any kind of majority, let alone an effective one!
If Labour + LibDems + SNP + Plaid Cymru + SDLP all got together to form a mega-coalition, they'd still only have a majority of two or three seats so a few abstentions would result in deadlock.
On the other hand, a Liberal-Conservative pact would deliver a majority of about 34 (best guess at this stage). Add old allies the DUP when the votes are looking tight and you're looking at an effective majority.
I broadly agree that a formal coalition might not be needed, which would make it an easier sell to the more left-wing members of the LibDems who are naturally suspicious of the Tories.FCN 6 in the week on the shiny new single speed.
FCN 3 at the weekend - struggling to do it justice!0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:Would a coalition of two parties who shared a total of 59% might just be a better outcome?
Apparently only relatively few European countries have a majority government; including us and Greece.
Perhaps a coalition doesn't sound too bad? If we got rid of the party whips and MP's actually got a free vote, perhaps it could work well.
What? And have MP's vote for the good of their constituents instead of the party?
Whatever next?
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
To add.lost_in_thought wrote:I don't know much about this, but it just seems incredibly unfair that the party in the majority (alright, so not enough of a majority) doesn't get to run the country. And that the party that came 3rd gets to basically decide who's in charge.
Basically to be the outright majority you need to have enough seats to out-vote the combined seats of the opposition (I believe this is 326 seats).
Neither party has that so they have to join forces with another party to have enough seats.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
linsen wrote:Isn't the government actually run by civil servants anyway? I doubt they will all be losing their jobs right now, ergo, nowt much will really change.
That's pretty much how I see it.
A clear indicator is that when Maggie was in power she stated that Yes Minister was too close to the truth for comfort.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
unscarred wrote:The Beginner wrote:Having not been in power for a few years (OK about 90) the libs are not as strongly restrained by the whips as lab/con are, so a lib/lab pact will struggle to retain an effective majority IMHO.
Lib + Lab won't have any kind of majority, let alone an effective one!
If Labour + LibDems + SNP + Plaid Cymru + SDLP all got together to form a mega-coalition, they'd still only have a majority of two or three seats so a few abstentions would result in deadlock.
On the other hand, a Liberal-Conservative pact would deliver a majority of about 34 (best guess at this stage). Add old allies the DUP when the votes are looking tight and you're looking at an effective majority.
I broadly agree that a formal coalition might not be needed, which would make it an easier sell to the more left-wing members of the LibDems who are naturally suspicious of the Tories.
This!
Its wierd that the more likley coalition (Lab/Lib) still couldn't win...
It comes down to how much all the opposition hate Tory.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:To add.lost_in_thought wrote:I don't know much about this, but it just seems incredibly unfair that the party in the majority (alright, so not enough of a majority) doesn't get to run the country. And that the party that came 3rd gets to basically decide who's in charge.
Basically to be the outright majority you need to have enough seats to out-vote the combined seats of the opposition (I believe this is 326 seats).
Neither party has that so they have to join forces with another party to have enough seats.
Dude. I know that much.0 -
Just trying to help. But surely if you know that then you know why Parliment is currently hung to the right but not 'right' enough to announce a Government.
What is unfair is that no matter what happened because where I live leans rigidly to one party, it doesn't matter who I vote. In fact the local Cllr elections propbably have more impact on my life.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
FCN 6 in the week on the shiny new single speed.
FCN 3 at the weekend - struggling to do it justice!0 -
0
-
DonDaddyD wrote:Just trying to help. But surely if you know that then you know why Parliment is currently hung to the right but not 'right' enough to announce a Government.
What is unfair is that no matter what happened because where I live leans rigidly to one party, it doesn't matter who I vote. In fact the local Cllr elections propbably have more impact on my life.
Yet another reason to move further south DDD - oooh cross-threading or whatever it's called (What was it they said in Ghostbusters?) - I'd have to admit it was one (admittedly small) factor when we were looking at where to move to.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
From this election is clear that there needs to be an electorate reform, its ridiculous that the Lib Dems with 23% of the vote to date and 6.5 million voters have only got 53 seats compared to 29% of the vote and 8.3 million voters for Labour lands them over 250 seats. That is flipping ridiculous.
.x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
gabriel959 wrote:From this election is clear that there needs to be an electorate reform, its ridiculous that the Lib Dems with 23% of the vote to date and 6.5 million voters have only got 53 seats compared to 29% of the vote and 8.3 million voters for Labour lands them over 250 seats. That is flipping ridiculous.
.
Yeah, that really is.0 -
x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
gabriel959 wrote:From this election is clear that there needs to be an electorate reform, its ridiculous that the Lib Dems with 23% of the vote to date and 6.5 million voters have only got 53 seats compared to 29% of the vote and 8.3 million voters for Labour lands them over 250 seats. That is flipping ridiculous.
.
+1FCN 6 in the week on the shiny new single speed.
FCN 3 at the weekend - struggling to do it justice!0 -
rjsterry wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Just trying to help. But surely if you know that then you know why Parliment is currently hung to the right but not 'right' enough to announce a Government.
What is unfair is that no matter what happened because where I live leans rigidly to one party, it doesn't matter who I vote. In fact the local Cllr elections propbably have more impact on my life.
Yet another reason to move further south DDD - oooh cross-threading or whatever it's called (What was it they said in Ghostbusters?) - I'd have to admit it was one (admittedly small) factor when we were looking at where to move to.
Outside of London, the rural areas, tend to lean towards ther right side of that wing. I suppose its where all the middle classes fled when lefties invaded the cities back in the 60s and 70s...
I'm morally a leftie who has some rightie aspirations/values....Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:unscarred wrote:The Beginner wrote:Having not been in power for a few years (OK about 90) the libs are not as strongly restrained by the whips as lab/con are, so a lib/lab pact will struggle to retain an effective majority IMHO.
Lib + Lab won't have any kind of majority, let alone an effective one!
If Labour + LibDems + SNP + Plaid Cymru + SDLP all got together to form a mega-coalition, they'd still only have a majority of two or three seats so a few abstentions would result in deadlock.
On the other hand, a Liberal-Conservative pact would deliver a majority of about 34 (best guess at this stage). Add old allies the DUP when the votes are looking tight and you're looking at an effective majority.
I broadly agree that a formal coalition might not be needed, which would make it an easier sell to the more left-wing members of the LibDems who are naturally suspicious of the Tories.
This!
Its wierd that the more likley coalition (Lab/Lib) still couldn't win...
It comes down to how much all the opposition hate Tory.
The LibDems & Tories are likely to struggle to resolve fundamental issues, though, particularly around PR, and cuts to public services.
Idealogically (if ideology exists in todays politics) they are a long way apart on some issues that each party holds dear.
The Tories might calculate that they could win a referendum on PR... if they can swallow that and reach some sort of compromise on public services then a coalition might be feasible (they are closer in some other areas, like binning the ID system).
I wonder if that might lead to a meltdown in the Conservative party, though. The simmering resentments over Europe (so well concealed during the campaign) would be fanned by the LibDems and might flare up spectacularly. Is there any more divisive issue for the Tories?
Cheers,
W.0 -
gabriel959 wrote:From this election is clear that there needs to be an electorate reform, its ridiculous that the Lib Dems with 23% of the vote to date and 6.5 million voters have only got 53 seats compared to 29% of the vote and 8.3 million voters for Labour lands them over 250 seats. That is flipping ridiculous.
.
Proportional representation!
Now that's something I'll march for not some bleeding critical mass (see what I did there *cough* andy manc *cough*).
Whose with me? Where are my Lib Dem supporters? Voting labour where the vote counts.
To be honest proportional representation, may empower more of the unsavoury parties and show England up...Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0
