2 months until...
Comments
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Ah, so you don't actually 'know', you are just making a statement of blind faith...oscarbudgie wrote:
How dare you.BikingBernie wrote:
How do you know?oscarbudgie wrote:My gut feeling is that Evans' is clean, although I don't know it like I know Wiggins is clean.0 -
I like Evans, he lurves his dog, and seems an OK sort of bloke. I think RichN95 offers as much 'proof' of innocence as you're likely to get about any rider. I have to believe some of them are clean or I just couldn't be bothered to watch, it genuinely guts me to watch Valv.piti ride and win, or Ricco come to that. I think back to the stage of the TdF a couple of years ago when Pippoli and Cobo (?) climbed away to win, and it was obvious that the pair of them were as bent as nine bob notes. I think even the commentary was quite cynical of their performance that day. Anyway, FWIW Cadel's OK by me.
On Topic.
1. Contador
2. Schleck A
3. Evans
4. Basso
5. Wiggo0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Ah, so you don't actually 'know', you are just making a statement of blind faith...oscarbudgie wrote:
How dare you.BikingBernie wrote:
How do you know?oscarbudgie wrote:My gut feeling is that Evans' is clean, although I don't know it like I know Wiggins is clean.
You can never 'know' something negatively, can you?
BB do you enjoy watching pro-cycling? You seem such a cynical disbeliever in the remote possibility of a clean cyclists that I wonder what pleasure you can take in watching any performance.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Ah, so you don't actually 'know', you are just making a statement of blind faith...oscarbudgie wrote:
How dare you.BikingBernie wrote:
How do you know?oscarbudgie wrote:My gut feeling is that Evans' is clean, although I don't know it like I know Wiggins is clean.
When Wiggins tweeted that Di Luca was a 'wanker' I knewCannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 30000 -
1. Contador
2. Menchov
3. Evans
4. Schleck A
5. Wiggo0 -
How? Via ESP? Do you believe everything you read on Twitter? (Or rather read into what you read on Twitter. Wiggins could have meant he was a 'wanker' for getting caught, or was just a wanker, for all you really know).oscarbudgie wrote:When Wiggins tweeted that Di Luca was a 'wanker' I knew0 -
Yes, as you say, it is a 'remote' possibility...dougzz wrote:BB do you enjoy watching pro-cycling? You seem such a cynical disbeliever in the remote possibility of a clean cyclists that I wonder what pleasure you can take in watching any performance.
I must say the 'pleasure' I get from watching pro cycling these days is very muted. I rode out to watch the 4th stage of the Tour de Romandie the other day (and got very wet in the process). I stood there and tried to feel the way I did when I was a youth and it did have a certain glory. I had forgotten just how savage bike racing can be, the speed, the gritted teeth, the dreadful weather, the climbs, the pain and all that was still 'real' and somehow very moving. However, when it comes to the results, modern-era doping has robbed the sport of any authenticity.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Yes, as you say, it is a 'remote' possibility...dougzz wrote:BB do you enjoy watching pro-cycling? You seem such a cynical disbeliever in the remote possibility of a clean cyclists that I wonder what pleasure you can take in watching any performance.
I must say the 'pleasure' I get from watching pro cycling these days is very muted. I rode out to watch the 4th stage of the Tour de Romandie the other day (and got very wet in the process). I stood there and tried to feel the way I did when I was a youth and it did have a certain glory. I had forgotten just how savage bike racing can be, the speed, the gritted teeth, the dreadful weather, the climbs, the pain and all that was still 'real' and somehow very moving. However, when it comes to the results, modern-era doping has robbed the sport of any authenticity.
You could always try watching other sports. I suggest snooker.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Yes, as you say, it is a 'remote' possibility...dougzz wrote:BB do you enjoy watching pro-cycling? You seem such a cynical disbeliever in the remote possibility of a clean cyclists that I wonder what pleasure you can take in watching any performance.
I must say the 'pleasure' I get from watching pro cycling these days is very muted. I rode out to watch the 4th stage of the Tour de Romandie the other day (and got very wet in the process). I stood there and tried to feel the way I did when I was a youth and it did have a certain glory. I had forgotten just how savage bike racing can be, the speed, the gritted teeth, the dreadful weather, the climbs, the pain and all that was still 'real' and somehow very moving. However, when it comes to the results, modern-era doping has robbed the sport of any authenticity.
Hard to disagree. Maybe its time for shuffleboard?___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Whereas the old-school doping of the past was fine?!?BikingBernie wrote:...modern-era doping has robbed the sport of any authenticity.
What’s new about it?0 -
However, when it comes to the results, modern-era doping has robbed the sport of any authenticity.
Whereas old school doping didn't? It's hardly a new phenomenon is it? The main difference is that it is now more scientific and that testing is being carried out rather than it being a bottle of scotch and a bit of speed.0 -
ju5t1n wrote:
Whereas the old-school doping of the past was fine?!?BikingBernie wrote:...modern-era doping has robbed the sport of any authenticity.
Yes, you know, old-school stuff like, oh, I don't know, ephedrine?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Point is 'old school' doping did not have the power to turn, say a rider who took three attempts to finish the Tour, typically losing as a much as half an hour on a big mountain stage and 6 -7 minutes in a flat TT in to a multiple 'winner'. Morally of course, all doping is suspect.0
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Agreed, people like Leipheimer are, morally speaking, no different to the likes of Vino.DaveyL wrote:you know, old-school stuff like, oh, I don't know, ephedrine?0 -
We don’t really know what the full affects were, never will. We do know it killed a few, including SimpsonBikingBernie wrote:Point is 'old school' doping did not have the power to turn, say a rider who took three attempts to finish the Tour, typically losing as a much as half an hour on a big mountain stage and 6 -7 minutes in a flat TT in to a multiple 'winner'. Morally of course, all doping is suspect.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Agreed, people like Leipheimer are, morally speaking, no different to the likes of Vino.DaveyL wrote:you know, old-school stuff like, oh, I don't know, ephedrine?
Yes. At least his result was authentic though.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
In all probability, yes!DaveyL wrote:
Yes. At least his result was authentic though.BikingBernie wrote:
Agreed, people like Leipheimer are, morally speaking, no different to the likes of Vino.DaveyL wrote:you know, old-school stuff like, oh, I don't know, ephedrine?0 -
Top level cyclists have always and will always dope-up... it's physically impossible (except for the odd one in a million super-gifted rider) to ride races like the Tour at the top level i.e. without the body breaking down without resorting to some sort of chemical assistance IMO!let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....0
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I still like watching pro cycling on TV but I realised a couple of years ago that I don't love it any more. The relentless stream of doping cases finally got to me. I want to watch people competing to their limits not the limits of what they are prepared to let doctors do to them! When I heard about the Goldman Dilemma, that really put me off - NY Times article.alanmcn1 wrote:I'm excited at the prospect of watching a drugged spaniard out-freaking the other injectors
go cyclingThere’s a well-known survey in sports, known as the Goldman Dilemma. For it, a researcher, Bob Goldman, began asking elite athletes in the 1980s whether they would take a drug that guaranteed them a gold medal but would also kill them within five years. More than half of the athletes said yes.0 -
Or did that have more to do with the 'old school' view that riders had to be able to do a six hour mountain stage in the middle of summer with little more to drink than a sip of Cognac? Similarly, consider how the book 'King of Sports' told young riders that they had to train themselves to ignore their thirst. I also recall the story of one old timer who apparently used to eat a plate of salted kippers before a 100 mile training run in order to work up an almost unbearable thirst when training!ju5t1n wrote:We don’t really know what the full affects were, never will. We do know it killed a few, including Simpson0 -
"Driest is fastest"Le Blaireau (1)0
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Rubbish! Without doping the racing would just be a little slower, and the difference in speed would probably only be noticeable in those final few kms of the summit finishes, where modern Tours tend to be won and lost.Pork Sword wrote:Top level cyclists have always and will always dope-up... it's physically impossible (except for the odd one in a million super-gifted rider) to ride races like the Tour at the top level i.e. without the body breaking down without resorting to some sort of chemical assistance IMO!0 -
BikingBernie wrote:...modern-era doping has robbed the sport of any authenticity.
Who was that guy back in the 50s or 60s who rode over the edge of a cliff because he was so doped up? Those were the days eh?Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 30000 -
Every thread I've read on here today has been turned into yet another doping debate by Bernie :?0
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Can't wait to hear the ITV theme start for the first time does give me goose bumps.
Anyway my 5:
1. Wiggins
2. Andy Schleck
3. Armstrong
4. Contador
5. Kloden0 -
'That guy back in the 50s or 60s'.oscarbudgie wrote:Who was that guy back in the 50s or 60s who rode over the edge of a cliff because he was so doped up? Those were the days eh?
Meanwhile, back in the modern era...
...One way some riders have attempted to stay ahead is using EPO, an endurance-boosting hormone that is produced naturally in the kidneys and is undetectable by current tests. But its use brings serious risks.
Quinet said he was able to document 80 riders in the 1980s and 1990s who died because of EPO-related heart problems.
http://www.press-enterprise.com/newsarc ... 24010.html0 -
oscarbudgie wrote:Who was that guy back in the 50s or 60s who rode over the edge of a cliff because he was so doped up? Those were the days eh?
You're probably thinking of Roger Riviere.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:oscarbudgie wrote:Who was that guy back in the 50s or 60s who rode over the edge of a cliff because he was so doped up? Those were the days eh?
You're probably thinking of Roger Riviere.
That'd be the fella. And Bernie - it was you who started getting mawkish about bike racing in the past, not me, and Wiggins' exact words were ' Di Luca, what a Wanker! unbelievable'. Fairly clear I'd say + Wiggins has also published his blood bio for the period 2003 -2009.Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 30000 -
Unbelievable that his doping management program was so slack that he got caught?oscarbudgie wrote:Wiggins' exact words were ' Di Luca, what a Wanker! unbelievable'.
Interesting, a whole 7 years of data. Link please! It will be interesting to see who certified the authenticity of the data and whether access to the raw data is provided.oscarbudgie wrote:Wiggins has also published his blood bio for the period 2003 -2009.
I hope that this isn't the 'data' you are referring to...
http://cyclocosm.com/2009/07/thats-not- ... call-data/0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Rubbish! Without doping the racing would just be a little slower, and the difference in speed would probably only be noticeable in those final few kms of the summit finishes, where modern Tours tend to be won and lost.Pork Sword wrote:Top level cyclists have always and will always dope-up... it's physically impossible (except for the odd one in a million super-gifted rider) to ride races like the Tour at the top level i.e. without the body breaking down without resorting to some sort of chemical assistance IMO!
Just read any cycling-related blog, newspage or magazine and you'll be faced with the undeniable truth that most of the top riders have doped, know someone who's doped or has had pressure put on them by their team to dope. If you know anything about human physiology or the history of racing then you'll know that doping is endemic in cycling so you're the one talking rubbish Bernie!let all your saddles be comfy and all your rides less bumpy....0
