2 months until...

paulcuthbert

the 2010 Tour de France. Who's excited??

Top 5 predictions please!

Tusher

Me!

Predictions? Mmmmn, too early, and I'll wait to see who's actually riding, but, let's face it, unless the Schleck brothers arrange for him to be gobbled up by a bear in the mountains, Contador will be standing on the top of the podium.

Which should give M. Prudhomme plenty of time to make sure that it's the Spanish national anthem in the CD player this year.

RichN95.

paulcuthbert wrote:

the 2010 Tour de France. Who's excited??

Top 5 predictions please!

You're a little early, there's the Giro first, which should be good, and I really like the Dauphine too.

But if you want a top 5, I'll say (controversially)

1. A Schleck
2. Wiggins
3. F Schleck
4. Menchov
5. Evans

Two obvious questions to answer, the answers to which are:

1. I predicted at the beginning of the season that he wouldn't win the Tour. No reason, just gut feeling - his Tours in even numbered years have yet to materialise. (Specialists call this Roche Syndrome).

2. I think he has more room for improvement than any of the other GC candidates. He didn't really plan for it last year, it was more 'let's see what happens'. I'm largely in a minority (maybe of one), who thinks this.

Tusher

Richard, please feel free to remind us of this prediction when he's dragged off into the forest by the ursine hit-men.



If Contador doesn't win, I would love it to be Evans. I couldn't think of anyone more deserving, especially after coming so close in the Vuelta last year.

RichN95.

Tusher wrote:

Richard, please feel free to remind us of this prediction when he's dragged off into the forest by the ursine hit-men.

If Contador doesn't win, I would love it to be Evans. I couldn't think of anyone more deserving, especially after coming so close in the Vuelta last year.

First up, are you my mother? Only she calls me Richard. (Unlikely - back watching the Tour in the 80s she always complained that they showed too umch bike racing and not enough scenary).

Secondly, I absolutely agree with you on Evans. When he first emerged as a GC rider I saw him as a clean rider amongst dopers (maybe I'm wrong), and he always gives any race his best shot.

He probably should have won the Vuelta (mechanicals, Piti etc), but I also think that he would have won the 2007 Tour had Rasmussen never been allowed to start. And 2008 was largely down to teams (and a crash) rather than individuals (no disrespect to Sastre who I like).

But I think the Giro will be his this year.

wicked

RichN95 wrote:

Tusher wrote:

Richard, please feel free to remind us of this prediction when he's dragged off into the forest by the ursine hit-men.

If Contador doesn't win, I would love it to be Evans. I couldn't think of anyone more deserving, especially after coming so close in the Vuelta last year.

First up, are you my mother? Only she calls me Richard. (Unlikely - back watching the Tour in the 80s she always complained that they showed too umch bike racing and not enough scenary).

Secondly, I absolutely agree with you on Evans. When he first emerged as a GC rider I saw him as a clean rider amongst dopers (maybe I'm wrong), and he always gives any race his best shot.

He probably should have won the Vuelta (mechanicals, Piti etc), but I also think that he would have won the 2007 Tour had Rasmussen never been allowed to start. And 2008 was largely down to teams (and a crash) rather than individuals (no disrespect to Sastre who I like).

But I think the Giro will be his this year.

Why is it that evans is supposedly drug free? Because he is not spanish or italian? Because aussies are good eggs?

alanmcn1

I'm excited at the prospect of watching a drugged spaniard out-freaking the other injectors


go cycling

Tusher

Yes, Richard, I AM your mother. :roll:
And Richard you shall remain. Now, stop wasting so much time in front of a computer and go and tidy your sock drawer.


Evans, like Sastre, has never been tainted by any hint of possibility of even [/i]thinking about doping.

Eau Rouge

I predict that a few days before it begins the UCI will announce some more names they say are doping.

Tusher

Eau Rouge wrote:

I predict that a few days before it begins the UCI will announce some more names they say are doping.

Yes, well, we've still got the Astana trash thing to come.

RichN95.

wicked wrote:

Why is it that evans is supposedly drug free? Because he is not spanish or italian? Because aussies are good eggs?

Ok. I'll lay out the reasons why I think he's OK.

1. He was a mountain bike prodigy. If you've seen a MTB race you will notice there are five people on the podium. The reason for this is a UCI guy was so impressed by a local 17 year old boy's efforts at coming 5th the Aussie World Cup race, he extended the podium.

2. When he was 20-21 he was the best Mountain biker around. So the potential was there. Rasmussen and Landis were contempories - he beat them comfortably (until Ras suddenly got good - about which he has made comments).

3. In his last season as a MTB rider he guested for Saeco (due to Cannondale links) at the Tour of Austria - he won.

4. His first road season was with Mapei in 2002. At the same time, Patrik Sinkewitz was there. He said it was the only team he didn't dope with. In that year Evans lead the Giro as a rookie, before blowing up on one stage.

5. When he went to T-Mobile he was completely sidelined, despite decent results (winning Austria again, and we all know what on there. Admittedly, he was injured a lot.

6. 2004 Vuelta. I forget the stage, but it was a mildly hilly satge. Six members of T-Mobile (including Vino and Botero) either come in with the stragglers or they drop out. Evans comes 6th. T-Mobile say it's because he's a vegetarian, which he's not.

7. His coach is Aldo Sassi, who is generally seen as clean. He originally worked with Ferrari and Conconi on Moser's hour record attempt, but when he took over Mapei he banned riders from contacting them. When Basso came back from his ban and wanted to prove he was clean, he went to Sassi.

8. He's one of the few cyclists to call dopers cheats. He's not outspoken, but has made veiled references to some riders.

Ultimately, for me, the evidence points to a clean rider. But to some crazy folk, he's winning, therefore he dopes.

Mettan

What's Andy Schleck's knee like now?

RichN95.

Tusher wrote:

Yes, Richard, I AM your mother. :roll:
And Richard you shall remain. Now, stop wasting so much time in front of a computer and go and tidy your sock drawer.

Sock drawer? You're definitely not my mother, it's all about the bathroom with her. But the position is subject to change. Application forms to the usual place.

wicked

RichN95 wrote:

wicked wrote:

Why is it that evans is supposedly drug free? Because he is not spanish or italian? Because aussies are good eggs?

Ok. I'll lay out the reasons why I think he's OK.

1. He was a mountain bike prodigy. If you've seen a MTB race you will notice there are five people on the podium. The reason for this is a UCI guy was so impressed by a local 17 year old boy's efforts at coming 5th the Aussie World Cup race, he extended the podium.

2. When he was 20-21 he was the best Mountain biker around. So the potential was there. Rasmussen and Landis were contempories - he beat them comfortably (until Ras suddenly got good - about which he has made comments).

3. In his last season as a MTB rider he guested for Saeco (due to Cannondale links) at the Tour of Austria - he won.

4. His first road season was with Mapei in 2002. At the same time, Patrik Sinkewitz was there. He said it was the only team he didn't dope with.

5. When he went to T-Mobile he was completely sidelined, despite decent results (winning Austria again, and we all know what on there. Admittedly, he was injured a lot.

6. 2004 Vuelta. I forget the stage, but it was a mildly hilly satge. Six members of T-Mobile (including Vino and Botero) either come in with the stragglers or they drop out. Evans comes 6th. T-Mobile say it's because he's a vegetarian, which he's not.

7. His coach is Aldo Sassi, who is generally seen as clean. He originally worked with Ferrari and Conconi on Moser's hour record attempt, but when he took over Mapei he banned riders from contacting them. When Basso came back from his ban and wanted to prove he was clean, he went to Sassi.

8. He's one of the few cyclists to call dopers cheats. He's not outspoken, but has made veiled references to some riders.

Ultimately, for me, the evidence points to a clean rider.

Fair enough but I have heard different. Do not want to tittle tattle on this forum about rumours as I did not hear it first hand but I was just wondering why he always seems to thought of as clean.

Tusher

wicked wrote:

Fair enough but I have heard different. Do not want to tittle tattle on this forum about rumours .

Ooooh, go on..........have a little more of this double creamed victoria sponge with icing and extra cherries and tell us all the gossip.

RichN95.

wicked wrote:

Fair enough but I have heard different. Do not want to tittle tattle on this forum about rumours as I did not hear it first hand but I was just wondering why he always seems to thought of as clean.

It's not perfect, but he's rare, possibly unique, in that the evidence for him being clean outweighs the evidence for him being dirty.

Oh, and if the rumour you picked up was a German paper (never repeated by any other publication) saying he was a Ferrari client - even the paper said they got him mixed up with Mick Rogers (who has also since gone over to Sassi).

But this thread isn't about Evans or who my mother is.

TOUR TOP FIVE PICKS. Who are they?

Tusher

I read that as TOUR TOP FIVE PRICKS, actually, which would be an entirely fascinating thread.

But, but................top 5-

Contador
Evans
one of the Schlecks, probably Andy
Nibali
Vande Velde

paulcuthbert

Only one person mentioned Wiggins so far... Surprising

RichN95.

paulcuthbert wrote:

Only one person mentioned Wiggins so far... Surprising

As I said, I think I'm in a very small minority - but I can't see why others can't see the massive room for improvement.

In fact I'll say now - if he's on the start line Brad is my PTP pick (I tend to go for maverick picks anyway)

Bernardus

RichN95 wrote:

wicked wrote:

Why is it that evans is supposedly drug free? Because he is not spanish or italian? Because aussies are good eggs?

Ok. I'll lay out the reasons why I think he's OK.

...

Ultimately, for me, the evidence points to a clean rider. But to some crazy folk, he's winning, therefore he dopes.

So, he rode for Mapei and T-Mobile (and a little bit for Saeco), but because those weren't his most successful seasons he wasn't part of the program?

4. His first road season was with Mapei in 2002. At the same time, Patrik Sinkewitz was there. He said it was the only team he didn't dope with.

Kohl said his "cleanest" seasons were during his time at Rabo Continental, does that mean nobody at Rabo used doping during that time?

8. He's one of the few cyclists to call dopers cheats.

A lot of riders say these things, some of them are even caught several months later (e.g. T. Dekker).


Ontopic:

1. Contador
2. Menchov
3. A. Schleck
4. Leipheimer
5. S. Sanchez

RichN95.

Really Bernardus, did you really read my post?

Saeco - he was only a guest rider. He did a full MTB season that year.
Mapei - This wasn't the infamous Lefevre Mapei. He left a year or two before - taking most of his riders with him. This was Sassi's Mapei.
T-Mobile - certainly dirty, but I used afamous example to show that he was probably outside the doping culture there.

You say he wasn't successful early on, but he was. He wasn't given the best chances until he went to Lotto though.

Also very few riders use the word 'cheat'.

I also should have added that Tom Boonen, unprompted, said that Evans proved that you can challenge for the Tour clean - and you know that Lotto and Quick Step completely know what goes on in each others camp.

Really, there's not one scrap of evidence against Evans, and plenty for him. You're clearly someone who wants to see doping everywhere. But I'm not. I want to see someone I can believe in - and Evans provides that in spades.

BikingBernie

RichN95 wrote:

I want to see someone I can believe in - and Evans provides that in spades.

dulldave

wicked wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Tusher wrote:

Richard, please feel free to remind us of this prediction when he's dragged off into the forest by the ursine hit-men.

If Contador doesn't win, I would love it to be Evans. I couldn't think of anyone more deserving, especially after coming so close in the Vuelta last year.

First up, are you my mother? Only she calls me Richard. (Unlikely - back watching the Tour in the 80s she always complained that they showed too umch bike racing and not enough scenary).

Secondly, I absolutely agree with you on Evans. When he first emerged as a GC rider I saw him as a clean rider amongst dopers (maybe I'm wrong), and he always gives any race his best shot.

He probably should have won the Vuelta (mechanicals, Piti etc), but I also think that he would have won the 2007 Tour had Rasmussen never been allowed to start. And 2008 was largely down to teams (and a crash) rather than individuals (no disrespect to Sastre who I like).

But I think the Giro will be his this year.

Why is it that evans is supposedly drug free? Because he is not spanish or italian? Because aussies are good eggs?

You don't really hear anyone bigging up Mick Rogers as being Mr Clean so that theory doesn't really hold much water. I've kinda considered Evans to be clean after seeing his face when he has to share a podium with Valverde.

iainf72

I've heard from folks who know people "in the know" that Cuddles in indeed the real deal. In this day and age it's always difficult to believe but even a cynic like me thinks he's very likely on the level.

I believe his numbers are fairly phenomenal too.

timoid.

Some really well thought out arguments there Dickie (as I'm sure you like to be called).

To my mind Evans is a phenom and a marker for how far you can go clean. Which Basso probably to an extent is now. Considering he was blown tire away from winning the Vuelta last year that really is something.

Nice guy and all that he is I don't put Sastre in the same category.

calvjones

I'm with Tricky Dicky on this one.

I mean, yeah, he and Pip and Tommy V might be dope fiends, but if we believed that, we'd only get a very odd kind of twisted, negative pleasure out of visiting these forums to talk Procycling, eh BB?

oscarbudgie

paulcuthbert wrote:

Only one person mentioned Wiggins so far... Surprising

And no one has mentioned HIM

oscarbudgie

My gut feeling is that Evans' is clean, although I don't know it like I know Wiggins is clean.

paulcuthbert

oscarbudgie wrote:

paulcuthbert wrote:

Only one person mentioned Wiggins so far... Surprising

And no one has mentioned HIM

That too. Not as surprising as not hearing about Wiggins though, especially at the rate the board has been talking him up in the past 10 months!

BikingBernie

oscarbudgie wrote:

My gut feeling is that Evans' is clean, although I don't know it like I know Wiggins is clean.

How do you know?

oscarbudgie

BikingBernie wrote:

oscarbudgie wrote:

My gut feeling is that Evans' is clean, although I don't know it like I know Wiggins is clean.

How do you know?

How dare you.