Giro "Big Name" to be Busted
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These guys can say whatever they want, as we've seen many times in the past.
I would be amazed if they've named a rider without having all their ducks lined up already.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
If they get in the same lawyer's that Landis used, this could go on for years, especially given that, unlike a positive test, the passport data is only 'indicative'.Blazing Saddles wrote:The bio passport to go under the microscope?0 -
Are you surprised that Liquigas seems to be supporting the dolphin?0
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Blazing Saddles wrote:UCI under fire from Pellizotti. He is claiming that "experts" were not all in agreement and that only 3 thought there was a case to answer.
http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/04-05-2 ... 0570.shtml
The bio passport to go under the microscope?
He makes it all sound so plausible. Reading it you really DO want to think the UCI messed up. Especially in the absence of a positive test.
All I can think is that there are a lot of dehydrated, hemerroid-suffering cyclists with bad cases of the runs out there.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:
The bio passport to go under the microscope?
Yep, bound to happen. Who can hire the best lawyer time. Bearing in mind the Valverde situation, I won't hold my breath that any of this will end cleanly or anytime soon. Unfortunately.0 -
Pokerface wrote:All I can think is that there are a lot of dehydrated, hemerroid-suffering cyclists with bad cases of the runs out there.
That was me last week
The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg0 -
Doobz wrote:I cant wait - more exiting then christmas
It's a more exciting form of Prologue, for sure.
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If all these riders and their lawyers/experts think the bio passport is flawed why do they only complain about it after they get caught with the same old excuse that dehydration & illness can trigger suspicion? Even Pellizotti's team 'agree' with the passport - What? Yet they also know if one of their riders doesn't drink enough, they'll be under investigation?
Every rider is dehydrated after a race and every rider gets ill.0 -
Problem with UCI action against these riders is, because they've proved themselves to be utterly inept on the Valverde issue, their credibility is at an all time low. Frankly I have no faith in McQuaid or the UCI and as such, I can't be sure that the procedures/protocols/science around the passport are water-tight. Frankly, it's a lawyer's wet dream.0
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Blazing Saddles wrote:Liquigas have pulled Bennati with no reason given.
Ah........the reason is a muscle injury, apparently.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1296/Giro/arti ... eker.dhtml
He sustained a muscle injury in Flanders and was unable to finsh the 2nd stage of De Panne before abandoning Ronde van Vlaanderen.
Best not to dirty riders unnecessarily.Contador is the Greatest0 -
this raises questions about the flaws of using blood.
why not just analyze power files long-term and any doping will be obvious because there are certain physiological boundaries to the body. if someone doped then they would show abnormal amounts of time at certain power levels.0 -
I'll preface this is with an IF, and to many, it probably is a big if:
But, if as it has been reported, that Glenn Close passport only showed that 2 of the 22 showed cause for concern (granted they can be too obvious ones), and that only 3 of the 9 UCI doctors thought these 2 values were unusual, well you might well question the whole process.
I know that Pellizotti has been given 30 days or so to explain his abnormal values and all, but how do you do that?
"Oh the reason why it appears that I doped is because, ... I don't know!"
As mentioned earlier in this forum, the UCI better have a 100% flawless case against him. You would think they would have.
But knowing the UCI, they will have probably found a way to stuff the whole thing up.0 -
If what SpaceJunk is saying is correct surely his best defence is the 6 doctor's that didn't agree?
This is all very depressing. I'm not expecting every doper to come clean, and fess up. But why isn't all of this to and froing done before it's made public. And why does data from last year's TdF suddenly become an issue10 months later.0 -
dougzz wrote:If what SpaceJunk is saying is correct surely his best defence is the 6 doctor's that didn't agree?
This is all very depressing. I'm not expecting every doper to come clean, and fess up. But why isn't all of this to and froing done before it's made public. And why does data from last year's TdF suddenly become an issue10 months later.
Do you understand how the passport works?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
dougzz wrote:If what SpaceJunk is saying is correct surely his best defence is the 6 doctor's that didn't agree?
This is all very depressing. I'm not expecting every doper to come clean, and fess up. But why isn't all of this to and froing done before it's made public. And why does data from last year's TdF suddenly become an issue10 months later.
Sorry, I shouldn't put a link up for my earlier post :
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pellizotti-insists-he-is-clean0 -
DaveyL wrote:dougzz wrote:If what SpaceJunk is saying is correct surely his best defence is the 6 doctor's that didn't agree?
This is all very depressing. I'm not expecting every doper to come clean, and fess up. But why isn't all of this to and froing done before it's made public. And why does data from last year's TdF suddenly become an issue10 months later.
Do you understand how the passport works?
Not in huge detail no. I understand it measures certain values over a period of time, and looks for changes in those values. Is this why it makes reference to last July now, because those values look moody against values since then, and prior to then?0 -
Yep, partly, and also I guess because it takes time for the panel to assess all the cases.
I don't think justice will ever be swift with the passport, but there's a better chance they'll get 'em in the end.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:Yep, partly, and also I guess because it takes time for the panel to assess all the cases.
I don't think justice will ever be swift with the passport, but there's a better chance they'll get 'em in the end.
I agree DaveyL, provided that the UCI have been scrupulous in their work. Imagine if Franco gets off (rightly or wrongly), you can imagine every other busted rider using the 'Pellizotti Defense"
Apparently Pellizotti didn't take the news all that well that he won't be starting the Giro, delivered personally by Angelo Zomegnan:
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This is the thing - it would be incredilbe (but not beyond the realms of probablity given the institution's track record) if the UCI had been premature in going after Pelizotti. That surely should be one advantage of the passport. With a normal drugs test, if the result is inconclusive, the rider gets off and you maybe have to get lucky again to catch them. Surely with the passport, you just wait until you have accumulated enough data to make the case watertight, then go after them?
With the word "just" in the above post obviously simplfying matters immensely... Very HappyLe Blaireau (1)0 -
A bit of a strange way to put it....
"I want to come out of this clean because I'm convinced I am. "
Rather than "I am clean an I know it!" :?0 -
Here's another link. This one doesn't read that well (IMO) for Pellizotti:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/453535/pellizotti-questions-biological-passport-s-methods.html
UCI labs found the anomalies on December 6 and asked Pellizotti on March 3 to offer an explanation, according to the newspaper (La Gazzetta dello Sport.) Pellizotti refused to mention it to his team or the press.
I wonder who's Frano's "advisors':
"I had faith. I received a request from the UCI to explain and I gave it, with help from my advisors. I was convinced there would not be a disciplinary case opened."[/i]0 -
Interesting days ahead. Especially if you are a cycling attorney.0
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Pellizotti is using classic FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) tactics because that is the only route open to him. The majority of riders caught come up with an excuse when the news breaks but convictions usually follow.
The UCI could wade in and start making public statements (and we all know how much Pat McQuaid likes the sound of his own voice) but it would appear that they've chosen to keep their own counsel, hopefully confident in the knowledge that they've provided all the evidence needed for the Italian federation to convict Pellizotti.0 -
I think it's important to note that the biological passport is a WADA funded exercise, not a UCI one. i.e. WADA paid for its creation. The UCI are the Guinea Pigs, or rather administrators of the WADA model and the teams and French Ministry of Sport pays for it to be used by UCI stakeholders. If the biological passport is flawed, it is not exclusively the UCI's problem, but WADA's & the Lausanne laboratory who actually set it up and designed the models protocols in the first place!0
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Doobz wrote:Seems the excuses are comming out now.. I wonder if they produce the so called Certificates now they will be cleared?
Tadej Valjavec wrote this on his forum..Tadej unfortunately will not be among the participants Giro
I have no words. In any case, I believe only one. My sports career has ended. Everything I have tried is to wash your own name. In the last season I was sick most of the season and had consequently very low hematocrit. While I was on the medical certificate of health problems, a doctor in our team did not do their work. Certificate is not forwarded to the International cycling union, which then began proceedings against me. I can not believe how it is possible that the system does not work and this can happen. Even when I was 19th April last year, came to control the House, was made a bunch of procedural errors. In the previous report, I clearly stated that I'll be home between 18 and 19 hour in the evening. Just that day I was present at night in the hospital for the birth of her daughter Clare so that I had turned off the phone. The rules are such that the controllers would have to come over this time period. Since I was not, he should automatically get a yellow card and the case was closed. Since I was in the hospital, I later returned the call and asked controllers that still passed inspection. The fact is that if any concealed, it would be better to get a yellow card. I am not so stupid, so it really can not believe how this is happening. The fact is that I'm the sacrificial lamb. But today I got a message to the UCI that the proposed opening of the proceedings against me.
A follow up to this - statements from the Ag2R doctor. Basically he says that Tadej is talking a load of balls. a) About the certificate and b) that his illness would have caused that his blood to do what it did.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ag2r-team-doctor-reacts-to-valjavecTwitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Doobz wrote:Seems the excuses are comming out now.. I wonder if they produce the so called Certificates now they will be cleared?
Tadej Valjavec wrote this on his forum..Tadej unfortunately will not be among the participants Giro
I have no words. In any case, I believe only one. My sports career has ended. Everything I have tried is to wash your own name. In the last season I was sick most of the season and had consequently very low hematocrit. While I was on the medical certificate of health problems, a doctor in our team did not do their work. Certificate is not forwarded to the International cycling union, which then began proceedings against me. I can not believe how it is possible that the system does not work and this can happen. Even when I was 19th April last year, came to control the House, was made a bunch of procedural errors. In the previous report, I clearly stated that I'll be home between 18 and 19 hour in the evening. Just that day I was present at night in the hospital for the birth of her daughter Clare so that I had turned off the phone. The rules are such that the controllers would have to come over this time period. Since I was not, he should automatically get a yellow card and the case was closed. Since I was in the hospital, I later returned the call and asked controllers that still passed inspection. The fact is that if any concealed, it would be better to get a yellow card. I am not so stupid, so it really can not believe how this is happening. The fact is that I'm the sacrificial lamb. But today I got a message to the UCI that the proposed opening of the proceedings against me.
A follow up to this - statements from the Ag2R doctor. Basically he says that Tadej is talking a load of balls. a) About the certificate and b) that his illness would have caused that his blood to do what it did.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ag2r-team-doctor-reacts-to-valjavec
That is brilliant. I applaud Ag2R for being honest with us, and not try to hood-wink the cycling public.0
