Need UK hills for Ventoux Challenge

Langman

Thank for the advice so far - its interesting that loads of you say that preparation can be done on the flat.

We have a Wattbike session tomorrow and one of the British Cycling guys will give us a training plan so should be interesting.

ut_och_cykla

My tips as a fat female who has cycled ventoux (on an MTB with loads of stops), then on other years Galibier, Alpe Dhuez with no stops etc
Train for hard but steady efforts that last /you can maiantain for 2-3 hours - on the flat or up hills as repeats or both. Practice drinking when you're gasping for breath, changing up a gear so you can rest your bum/back, and just keeping going whatever happens (all weathers hot, cold, rain etc) and above all make sure you have the gears you need to be able to do all of this. For me gears are the key, together with the mental determination just to keep going - with these two things you can get up everything that is tarmacced

ColinJ

Riding up hills is definitely not the same thing as making a similar effort on the flat! It might be on a fixedwheel bike but certainly not when you have a freewheel to take advantage of.

I have done centuries as fast as I can but they don't do the damage to me that long climbs do.

I'm used to hills where I live, and steep ones at that. I regularly tackle 15-20% climbs and occasionally short stretches of 25% but it's the long 7-10% buggers that really hurt me (such as Wessenden Head and East Chevin, mentioned above).

It's the relentless strain on my back. If I make a sustained big effort on a flat road and my back starts to ache I can freewheel for a while or change to a lower gear. Riding up a long hill I'm already going slowly so there isn't a lot of scope for going slower or I'd be wobbling all over the road. There's no freewheeling so no let up for the back. If I did did slow down, I'd only be torturing my back for longer.

It's very rare for my legs, heart or lungs to be the limiting factor on rides. My back nearly always packs up first and big hills are much worse for my back than fast flat rides.

Langman

Its the long draggy ones which I hate as well. The short sharp ones are not so bad

Anonymous

I don't think walking should be a consideration. If you train well, going up any of the famous climbs is do-able. I just would not want to walk after deciding to arrange a trip, pay for it, train for it and then resort to walking. Planning a Ventoux or Galibier or Alpe de Huez trip is something meaningful to roadies and to ride up them is the goal, not walk.

Just sticking my nose in, sorry but if you get your head and legs/lungs trained you will get up there.

DaSy

dmclite wrote:

Planning a Ventoux or Galibier or Alpe de Huez trip is something meaningful to roadies and to ride up them is the goal, not walk.

Too right dmclite, you can't walk up Ventoux no matter what. At the end of the day it is one very short time in your life, 2 hours at worst, of suffering that you will look back on with pride for ever after.

It's hard work, but the main thing is to just pick a gear you can turn (like I said before, it'll be whatever the lowest gear you have on board is), and just disengage your brain and just get into the routine of rolling the pedals round.

The main problem I came across in early Alpine climbs was going off too hard early on, not truly understanding I was going to be doing this for 1 or 2 hours, once you have reconciled that in your brain it's just a case of remembering to enjoy the process.

Langman

I agree - if you walk any part it defeats the purpose. This is why I was asking for decent hills, walking would be a failure in my opinion.

guinea

My desktop wallpaper is of me passing a walker on Ventoux.

I trained by doing hard hours in Richmond Park in London. No mountains required.

nmcgann

ColinJ wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

Dufton Fell near Appleby.

That's usually known as Great Dun Fell. That's one on my shortlist for when I'm fitter - the steepest bit rises 620 m in 7km so that is an average of 8.8%. You'd have to do that about 2.5 times to do the same climbing as Ventoux but you'd be recovering on the descents and obviously you wouldn't have the same heat and winds.

......

I'm nostalgic about GDF - climbing that a few years ago and suffering like a dog in 30/25 was what started me down the slippery slope to proper cycling fitness :oops:

I was so disgusted with my poor showing and general wheezy lardyness that I started a weight loss and training program that shifted 3st over 6 months.

Last September's pyrenees trip didn't need a gear lower than 39/25. Thanks GDF

Hibbs

With Ventoux in a way the climbing is the most straightforward part, as a "climb" it's no worse than a number of Alpine climbs. However, the mental aspect is much tougher.

The temperature can vary a lot between the lower slopes and higher slopes depending on the time of year, so be careful of that. It is likely to be either very hot or very cold at the summit, nothing in between, so prepare your clothing and fluids accordingly.

Also, it can get very windy near the top, so just as you're tiring and suffering from the gradient and you're mentally exhausted, you're likely to then get battered with high winds for the final few kms. Again, prepare mentally for this.

Other than that enjoy it, you'll love the feeling at the summit! And make sure you get the obligatory photo on the way down at Tom's memorial!

lochindaal

At last people starting to realise that spending a hour on a hill is no harder than spending a hour on the flat. Might stop all the pointless 'what is the hardest hill' threads.

I agree that you can work as hard on the flat as on a hill but.....the change of postion on your bike forced by the angle of the hill brings different muscles into use particularly in the lower back, butt and calves.

This is going to have a much more noticeable effect on a long alpine climb.

Also if you have never done an Alpine climb then the mental aspect of the climb that just seems to never stop can't be prepared for on the flat. This is worst on Ventoux where there isn't even a hairpin to get a brief rest on.

bobtbuilder

ColinJ wrote:

Riding up hills is definitely not the same thing as making a similar effort on the flat! It might be on a fixedwheel bike but certainly not when you have a freewheel to take advantage of.

I have done centuries as fast as I can but they don't do the damage to me that long climbs do.

I'm used to hills where I live, and steep ones at that. I regularly tackle 15-20% climbs and occasionally short stretches of 25% but it's the long 7-10% buggers that really hurt me (such as Wessenden Head and East Chevin, mentioned above).

It's the relentless strain on my back. If I make a sustained big effort on a flat road and my back starts to ache I can freewheel for a while or change to a lower gear. Riding up a long hill I'm already going slowly so there isn't a lot of scope for going slower or I'd be wobbling all over the road. There's no freewheeling so no let up for the back. If I did did slow down, I'd only be torturing my back for longer.

It's very rare for my legs, heart or lungs to be the limiting factor on rides. My back nearly always packs up first and big hills are much worse for my back than fast flat rides.

The point is if you are doing a 90% threshold training on the flat, then you're not using the freewheel option.

I agree that hill climbing places more of a lumbar strain than flat riding, but otherwise 90% effort on the flat is the same as 90% effort uphill.

DaSy

Is there really that much of a change of position when climbing a hill in the saddle? All the contact points remain the same, ie, pedals, saddle and handlebars, so you are inclined at the same angle as the bike, so you remain mostly in the same position relative to the bike, give or take a slight movement forward or back on the saddle depending on how you ride.

The main difference is that the chain is under constant tension on the entire pedal revolution, so you have to drive the pedal round all the way through the top and bottom dead centres, unlike on the flat where you are benefited by inertia much more so can soft pedal through the top and bottom of the stroke. I think this is where the strain on the lower back comes in more than the incline itself.

Langman

Stand up or sit down - that is the question. Wattbike results prove you are more efficient and have more power sitting down, but I like to stand.

stfc1

Langman wrote:

Stand up or sit down - that is the question. Wattbike results prove you are more efficient and have more power sitting down, but I like to stand.

The climb up the Ventoux from Bedoin is 16 miles long!

Langman

Yep - looks like seated it is then.

Stick8267

Great advice!

Four of us are doing our first proper hill by going up Ventoux in June. It's nice to know that our basic prep plan seems sensible. All we have to do now is follow it through.

Fortunately we're all emergency medicine doctors so as long as one of us remains conscious the other three should be relatively ok!!

I am a bit worried about hydration. How do you carry enough liquids? Does anyone use a camelback?

Langman

Are you doing any specific training?

huuregeil

DaSy wrote:

Is there really that much of a change of position when climbing a hill in the saddle? All the contact points remain the same, ie, pedals, saddle and handlebars, so you are inclined at the same angle as the bike, so you remain mostly in the same position relative to the bike, give or take a slight movement forward or back on the saddle depending on how you ride.

That's the thing though, I think you do change position, or at least I do a fair bit. It's worth getting some good hills under the belt before heading out to the alps because you get a chance to work out what works for you. Seated, I like to slide right back and hang off the tops, and this noticeable works the back of the leg and glutes harder. Conversely, prolonged standing with a relatively hard gear is a good skill to acquire. You can't really mimic these positions so well on the flat.

Lots of good rides in the peak, one of my fave loops is Snake Pass, Strines Moor, Holme Moss.

Alternatively, go and get some 25mile Time Trials under your belt, probably the closest thing in terms of sustained effort you're going to find, especially given that most people are competitive and push themselves harder when there's a clock involved :-)

Stick8267

Langman wrote:

Are you doing any specific training?

We're a fairly mixed group of experience although all have an ok basic fitness level.

Basically it's been about getting distance under the belt for sound baseline fitness moving on to developing legs, hearts and lungs for the hills. There aren't any long hills (beyond 1-2% anyway) round here so I've been riding at a higher gear than normal and avoiding freewheeling. There are some short steep (10-12%) climbs which I'll then use for reps to increase strength.

I find a heart rate monitor useful; helps to keep in a sensible training zone. Add in a couple of sportives before we go and I think we should get up.

Not really chasing a time but would be really happy with under 2 hours. Looking for a sense of achievement but also fun!

Langman

Agreed - fun seems to be a strange word to choos but we feel the same - really excited about it. We are also raising mney for charity, the company we are doing it with also give some of the fee to charity as well - so pretty good all round.

andrewJohnson

Great Dunn Fell?

638.2512 metres elevation over 4.7miles.

ColinJ

andrewJohnson wrote:

Great Dunn Fell?

638.2512 metres elevation over 4.7miles.

We've already covered that one earlier Andy!

Langman

We ar riding Great Dunn Fell this weekend should be a good starter....

ColinJ

Langman wrote:

We ar riding Great Dunn Fell this weekend should be a good starter....

If you haven't already decided on a route, how about this loop? (I plan to ride it one day and take in some of the highest climbs in England)

Appleby, Dufton, Knock, Great Dunn Fell (848 m), Knock, Skirwith, Melmerby, Hartside (577 m), Alston, Yad Moss (601 m), Middleton, Bowbank, Helbeck Fell (487 m), Brough, Great Musgrave, Little Musgrave, Bleatarn, Burrells, Appleby.

That's a tough 134 km (83 miles) and about 2,000 m (6,500 ft) of climbing in total.

VTTBOSCOMBE

Nothing prepared me for tackling Ventoux last month, as it was a last minute thing , while in the Ardeche.
It was only foolishly looking at a map I saw it was relatively close so I tried it.

Beduin side , so same as last year's Tour route.

I had knackered myself abit doing road and off road around the Ardeche the previous 2 days, so nice climbs there, so I thought why not?

You know it is different just approaching it - it stands alone like some volcano getting bigger as you get closer. It broods.

It is a slog , and sometimes just reading the road graffiti from last years tour kept me from failing.
As the French cycle mags say, "keep dancing" get off your fess and change your position every so often.
Only stopped once, to limbo dance under the barrier keeping cars off the top, about 5 kms dow. But christ it was cold - 2 metres of snow and bleak.

I scaped up there just in 2 hours , which I was dissapointed with, but I was only passed by two others so everyone was suffering I suppose.
Some guy gave me a "chapeau" sign coming the other way as I was in the last few metres so I was made up anyway.

The bar (Chalet?) about 80% of the way up, makes great creps, which I needed coming down as I had frostbite I think.

Just ride as much as you can ,in preperation, even if it climbs of lesser gradients. There are some bigger climbs near where I live, in the Black Forest and the Vosges; all as steep or even steeper ; but no where as long-.
Also that last section, which in summer is like a moonscape - and I saw it as an Artic wasteland - that seems to go on for ever, while you think you are so close.....
have fun.

Et Tu Titus

I rode Ventoux last year, doing both sides on the same day - starting and finishing in Bedoin (Tour route first).

Firstly, don't allow yourself to get freaked out by everything you read (on here and everywhere else), as you already know it is going to be hard otherwise you wouldn't be setting yourself this challenge. It is a shame that there is nothing in the UK that can provide a similar experience climbing wise. Yes it is hard, but it is also one of the most rewarding climbes I have ever done.

Secondly, enjoy yourself. One of the most memorable things I experienced there was the friendliness of everyone else , both riders and people helping other riders, and the sense of achievement that you all share - I even had some mad frenchman clapping me on the back & giving me the whole Allez Allez thing about half way up from Malaucene on the 2nd climb.

Thirdly, take your time. I saw some guys going off on the lower slopes from Bedoin quite fast, only to pass them about 5km later when it gets really tough. Just find a cadence and gear that works for you and stick with it and don't allow yourself to be intimidated by other riders. If you are going up & down from Bedoin, stop at Chalet Reynard on the way back down for your rewarding beer / crepe / coffee or whatever - there are always lots other riders there too to share your achievement

Enjoy

Rutlandblue

Living in Cambs i was stuck for hills whilst training for raid pyrenee so as others have mentioned i rode repeatedly up/down my nearest hill for an hour and trained hard on an indoor bike. Threw in a couple of trips to Cumbria and did it in 97hrs.
Once fit the heat is the biggest obstacle tbh. Get used to an electrolyte drink before you go to avoid upset stomach, hydrate well in the days leading up to the event.
Then enjoy it!

mozwyn69

I'm doing the Cingles de Ventoux next Saturday with a few mates. I've done the Ventoux a few times before so know what awaits but a lack of miles this year is going to make it even tougher.
Like all the big climbs it's tough but with suitable gearing (34/27 for me) and taking your time it's well within any reasonably fit cyclists capabilities. You see all sorts of shapes and sizes going up there in the summer on all manner of bikes.