Need UK hills for Ventoux Challenge

Langman

Hi there - need some help.

As part of a work team bonding challenge a team of us are climbing mt Ventoux -should be great can't wait. We are doing it through these guys www.corporateascents.com
well worth a look, if you can get your boss to pay, they do stuff all over UK inc track and you can ride with proriders.

As part of the challenge we get the use of a Wattbike and training plan, I was wondering if anybody knew of decent places to train in the UK after some good hills - name then if you can.

Thanks all

amaferanga

Bealach na Ba, Applecross and Dufton Fell near Appleby.

SurosaRider

Yeah, what he said... seems like this guy knows his Apples.

Langman

Thanks for that what about the peak district?

amaferanga

Plenty of hills in the Peaks, but nothing like the Bealach or Dufton. I figured you'd be after long climbs of a decent grade. The Bealach is about 600m ascent over 10km, while Dufton is about the same ascent over 8km. Nowt like that in the Peaks.

sheffsimon

Do you specifically need to train on hills?

What fitness/experience level are you starting from?

Training hard is training hard, whether its flat or uphill, and if you are at "beginners" level, you just need to get out on the bike and put the hard yards in.

Aside from all that, I reckon Mam Nick is your best option in Peaks (from Edale up Mam Tor if you dont know it), very few cars, and hard!!

Langman

Pretty fit some of the group more so than others. We thought about riding hill to get used to the pain of it really.

bobtbuilder

SheffSimon wrote:

Do you specifically need to train on hills?

What fitness/experience level are you starting from?

Training hard is training hard, whether its flat or uphill, and if you are at "beginners" level, you just need to get out on the bike and put the hard yards in.

Aside from all that, I reckon Mam Nick is your best option in Peaks (from Edale up Mam Tor if you dont know it), very few cars, and hard!!

+1. Having ridden the Ventoux (and many other classic cols), there is NOTHING comparable in the UK. However, what it really boils down to is putting out a sustained effort for 2 hours (approx) so you can train using longer threshold rides.

However, the biggest challenge is the mental aspect. The first time I rode a big climb, I just wasn't aware how mentally tough it is to climb solidly for 1hr+ and the ability to suffer for this length of time.

Once you get your head round this, the climbs aren't so difficult as the gradients tend to be around the 8-11% mark, which really isn't that steep for a compact chainset.

dodgy

Might help if you tell us where you are in the UK mate

The thing with Alpine climbs and monsters like Ventoux is that they go on for a long time but the actual grade is often not that severe. I can think of many climbs in the UK that are absolute torture in terms of grade (Wrynose, Hardknott for example), so much so that I would prefer to be on a nice 6 or 7% grade for 20km instead somewhere sunny 8)

maddog 2

Like all Alpine/Pyrennean climbs Ventoux is basically long and steady, which is fairly rare in this country. As suggested, you could simply train hard on the flat and mimic the physical demands that way. When I did Ventoux it took me 1hr 40mins I think, so if you can ride hard for that long you'll be fine 8)

Try and fit it a ride down the Gorge de la Nesque - fantastic.

bompington

Friend of mine trainied for Ventoux by doing repeats of a local 300m hill, he did it in just under an hour so it must have worked

DaSy

I've ridden all the climbs of Ventoux, along with most of the major TdF climbs of the Alps, and can vouch for the Bedoin ascent of Ventoux as one of the tougher ones. If you ignore the warm up to St Esteve, the mountain is effectively 16 kilometres at an average of 9%!

The most effective training for me was to just concentrate on increasing my FTP (one hour sustainable power), so long time trial efforts tend to be best. Take it steady at the beginning, and just find a comfortable gear (it'll be you lowest gear, no matter what you think to start off with), and don't think any further than the next kilometre marker.

I'm off to do the Club des Cingles du Ventoux in 5 weeks, may see you there...

DaSy

bompington wrote:

Friend of mine trainied for Ventoux by doing repeats of a local 300m hill, he did it in just under an hour so it must have worked

You're mates with Iban Mayo?

liversedge

bompington wrote:

Friend of mine trainied for Ventoux by doing repeats of a local 300m hill, he did it in just under an hour so it must have worked

He should turn pro. The fastest time so far recorded has been that of Iban Mayo in the individual climbing time trial of the 2004 Dauphiné Libéré: 55' 51".

highlandpro

Just looked at corporateascents.com looks like a great idea going to see if my boss will organise some for the staff, cant beat cycling/work combo!

bompington

liversedge wrote:

bompington wrote:

Friend of mine trainied for Ventoux by doing repeats of a local 300m hill, he did it in just under an hour so it must have worked

He should turn pro. The fastest time so far recorded has been that of Iban Mayo in the individual climbing time trial of the 2004 Dauphiné Libéré: 55' 51".

Might be my faulty memory of the conversation then! although he is a bit of a climbing snake.

Langman

highlandpro wrote:

Just looked at corporateascents.com looks like a great idea going to see if my boss will organise some for the staff, cant beat cycling/work combo!

yep - almost went for the track challenge, but Alps won over. Can link to a charity so I think the company also gets a tax break.

Variado

However, the biggest challenge is the mental aspect. The first time I rode a big climb, I just wasn't aware how mentally tough it is to climb solidly for 1hr+ and the ability to suffer for this length of time.

I'd echo this. I've not done Ventoux (was going to last year, but plans had to change) but have done some of the big climbs in the Alps. On my first "Cat 1" I had a really bad spell in the middle of the climb where my average speed was dropping faster than the distance to the top - so despite all the effort the time remaining was effectively going up. I was cramping up too, and was starting to think "sod this". Fortunately the gradient then slackened off and I kept going, but that experience of working for 40-50 minutes and feeling like you're getting nowhere can be quite hard to deal with.

The other issue that I don't think has been mentioned is heat. Depending on when you're going it can get bloody hot in the south of France, I found that a real shock to the system and can be very hard to stay hydrated.

DaSy

I always find the sight of an old, brown, wrinkled man with a face like an old leather football, pedalling a rusty mountain bike up Alpine climbs, generally with a load of bags on board, tends to focus your efforts!

I remember working bloody hard to get past a guy who must have been well in his 70's, on a old steel tourer, with panniers the lot, on the Izoard. I said bonjour as I eventually passed him, and he was all smiles, no sign of effort on his face at all...

LikeUStoleIt

what a great team-building excercise- beats the normal 'group-hug' nonsense! wish i worked for your company!

i'd echo the thoughts of others that britsih hills are of limited value training for ventoux.

if you've got access to a wattbike, then as suggested above, find your FTP and then use the wattbike to train at around 85%-90% FTP for up to 2 hours, slowly building up the time with each training session. learning how to put out a sustained near-threshold effort is probably more useful than repeatedly riding up and down most british hills.

the forest bit on the lower slopes of ventoux is stinking hot, so have plenty of water to hand. all sorts of carnage in there on last year's l'etape.

best of luck.

Langman

LikeUStoleIt wrote:

what a great team-building excercise- beats the normal 'group-hug' nonsense! wish i worked for your company!

Agreed Group Hugs and Cake Baking - what a load of old rubbish.

rick_chasey

Turbo.

Sit in the sun, on a nice hot day, then get a friend/spouse/relative to point a couple hairdryers at you, and then turbo properly flat out for 100 or so minutes, preferably slightly overgeared, with the resistance on full, naturally.


That's about the closest you'll get in terms of suffering.

Ventoux is one of the toughest climbs on the mind.

moolarb

if you're looking in the Peak District you could do reps of the Cat & Fiddle climb which I think is about 6 or 7 miles steady climb from Macc

or you could do it once and then add in a few of the other climbs in that area for a decent 2 or 3 hour hard loop - obviously it will be a bit up and down and some hills will be much shorter and steeper that Ventoux but it should be a good workout

sheffsimon

LikeUStoleIt wrote:

what a great team-building excercise- beats the normal 'group-hug' nonsense! wish i worked for your company!

i'd echo the thoughts of others that britsih hills are of limited value training for ventoux.

if you've got access to a wattbike, then as suggested above, find your FTP and then use the wattbike to train at around 85%-90% FTP for up to 2 hours, slowly building up the time with each training session. learning how to put out a sustained near-threshold effort is probably more useful than repeatedly riding up and down most british hills.

the forest bit on the lower slopes of ventoux is stinking hot, so have plenty of water to hand. all sorts of carnage in there on last year's l'etape.

best of luck.

If it was me, I wouldnt go anywhere near the wattbike. Cant think of much worse than training indoors when its spring/summer, and the whole expererience, including the training beforehand is meant to be something to enjoy and acheive, not sat on a turbo or wattbike beasting yourself for two hours.

Presume you need to bring some/all of group up to a decent level of fitness and more specifically, bike fitness. To do that you just need to get out on some decent rides, give it some stick, and ride together as a group. If that is in the Peak District then it will be hard enough. Also need to do it regularly, a few times a week if you can.

ColinJ

amaferanga wrote:

Dufton Fell near Appleby.

That's usually known as Great Dun Fell. That's one on my shortlist for when I'm fitter - the steepest bit rises 620 m in 7km so that is an average of 8.8%. You'd have to do that about 2.5 times to do the same climbing as Ventoux but you'd be recovering on the descents and obviously you wouldn't have the same heat and winds.

Alternatively you could try multiple repeats of some shorter tough climbs. I can think of two of my local ones:

Wessenden Head out of Meltham near Huddersfield. That rises 270 m in 3.0 km, an almost constant 8.4% - you'd need to do 6 of those back to back. (one is bad enough!)

The East Chevin road out of Otley. That rises 160 m in 1.6 km so an average of 10%. You'd need to do 10 of those back to back.

I've done both of those climbs recently so those numbers give me an idea of just how tough Ventoux would be, even forgetting the weather conditions.

chrisw12

At last people starting to realise that spending a hour on a hill is no harder than spending a hour on the flat. Might stop all the pointless 'what is the hardest hill' threads.

Saying that, specific training for the event you plan is always good so find any hill near you and just keep going up and down it.

dodgy

chrisw12 wrote:

At last people starting to realise that spending a hour on a hill is no harder than spending a hour on the flat. Might stop all the pointless 'what is the hardest hill' threads.

I sort of agree with that, the principle is that if you're going 100% or near it, then it doesn't matter if you're going up or not. However, there are some climbs that are so brutally difficult that in reality, it doesn't work like that. While a novice cyclist can ride at 100% on the flat (albeit relatively slowly), put the same novice on Wrynose and he probably won't make it without stopping.

Team Banana Spokesman

temperatures are higher when climbing and unless you have amazing technique so will muslce/joint angles due to the slope. if you like to climb out of the saddle this is most obvious on the flat. you can feel the bike tilt is different and it feels odd.

stfc1

chrisw12 wrote:

At last people starting to realise that spending a hour on a hill is no harder than spending a hour on the flat. Might stop all the pointless 'what is the hardest hill' threads.

Saying that, specific training for the event you plan is always good so find any hill near you and just keep going up and down it.

The thing is, you have the bail-out option of easing off on the flat, try that going uphill and it won't be long before you come to a standstill.

Hill reps can't hurt, but what is most important is building enough base fitness that you can be confidant you won't blow up when you have to go at 90% of your max for an hour-and-a-half (if you're good!) or more. That means miles, basically.

chrisw12

There's a pretty good bail out option on hills as well, it's called walking.

No shame in that.

freehub

chrisw12 wrote:

There's a pretty good bail out option on hills as well, it's called walking.

No shame in that.

I think quite a few people think this IMO and end up walking when they actually could go further, or even possibly get up it if they had the right attitude.