Soya Chocolate drink for recovery?

FitzM

I've seen some articles suggesting that Chocolate Milk is an ideal recovery drink. But I'm not really a diary milk drinker, having switched to Soya milk some 10+ years ago.

Does anyone know if a soya chocolate drink will do just as good?

amaferanga

Why would chocolate milk or soya milk be any better than just milk or soya milk?

FitzM

Because wiser people than me suggesting it....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... rinks.html

nickwill

FitzM wrote:

Because wiser people than me suggesting it....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... rinks.html

That report is so ridiculous that it should be disregarded. The comparison was between chocolate milk and commercial energy drinks not recovery drinks. I think the result would have been very different if proper specific recovery drinks had featured in the test.

FitzM

Nickwill wrote:

That report is so ridiculous that it should be disregarded. The comparison was between chocolate milk and commercial energy drinks not recovery drinks. I think the result would have been very different if proper specific recovery drinks had featured in the test.

You might be right and to be honest I'm not looking at the comparison between energy and recovery drinks. And don't really want to go off at a tangent.

I only posted the url to highlight that chocolate milk is getting increasing press as a recovery drink and wanted contributors views on chocolate in cows milk v soya milk.

Ollieda

Choco milk is quite popular in the triathlon world. I suppose part of it boils down to price, maybe convenience, maybe some guilt chocolate seeking pleasure!

Not sure about soya chocolate milks out there, maybe try adding chocolate milkshake powder like nesquick or something to some soya milk, not sure if it would be as effective though?

SteveR_100Milers

There's a interesting article in bikeradar about milk, suggesting that plain old skimmed milk is hard to beat as a post ride recovery drink. Apparently soya milk is not so good because the vitamins / minerals are added, and not naturally occurring.

simon_e

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

There's a interesting article in bikeradar about milk, suggesting that plain old skimmed milk is hard to beat as a post ride recovery drink. Apparently soya milk is not so good because the vitamins / minerals are added, and not naturally occurring.

Do you mean this pile of tosh? (IMHO, of course)

From what I've read I would say soya chocolate milk is better than a cow's milk product. Since you (the OP) don't drink dairy milk now I'd suggest you try a couple of cartons of soya choccy milk at around 95p/litre and see how it goes. Alternatively, normal soya milk with some drinking chocolate, cocoa powder or ovaltine for flavour. Or chuck some fruit and milk in the blender (and maybe vanilla essence or cinnamon where appropriate) to whizz up a smoothie. You could also add some porridge oats that have been soaked in milk or juice to bulk it up if you like.

Since protein is often recommended as an important element of recovery food you could add a nut butter or one of the protein powders, and follow it up with an egg, fish or bean-based meal.

micken

Banana, peanut butter, cocoa and any milk of your choice, blend the lot and drink.
Let recovery commence.

SteveR_100Milers

Simon E wrote:

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

There's a interesting article in bikeradar about milk, suggesting that plain old skimmed milk is hard to beat as a post ride recovery drink. Apparently soya milk is not so good because the vitamins / minerals are added, and not naturally occurring.

Do you mean this pile of tosh? (IMHO, of course)

From what I've read I would say soya chocolate milk is better than a cow's milk product. Since you (the OP) don't drink dairy milk now I'd suggest you try a couple of cartons of soya choccy milk at around 95p/litre and see how it goes. Alternatively, normal soya milk with some drinking chocolate, cocoa powder or ovaltine for flavour. Or chuck some fruit and milk in the blender (and maybe vanilla essence or cinnamon where appropriate) to whizz up a smoothie. You could also add some porridge oats that have been soaked in milk or juice to bulk it up if you like.

Since protein is often recommended as an important element of recovery food you could add a nut butter or one of the protein powders, and follow it up with an egg, fish or bean-based meal.

Yes that was the article.

This was the "interesting" bit:

“Soy drinks that try to mimic milk do nowhere near as well as milk because the protein is entirely different and the nutrients are simply thrown together to create a drink,” says Stuart Phillips of McMaster University. “Our data shows that soy protein is inferior to milk in promoting muscle accretion and muscle protein synthesis.”

Is there any other evidence out there to support this claim ( I assume that he isn't sponsored by the milk producers). There would appear to be some logic with the "throwing things together" to make a drink - I drink Alpro soya light, ad it claims to have 'added' vitamins etc. I have read enough about supplements, and tried them to know that most are useless because of the low bioavailability of most of the processed compounds

SteveR_100Milers

Just read the thread of comments after the article. I have read about high levels of oestrogen being added to cows milk, personally I drink organic skimmed milk, but I don't know if tat is any different. I know that caseine is difficult to metabolise, but I would have thought there is enough post war evidence about its positive benefits. I am more intrigued by the need to add chocolate flavour to either milk or soya..??

ireland57

Just try it and see how it goes.

There is so much crap added to dairy milk these days (at least in Australia) I don't even drink the stuff.

Triathloners may use it but years ago many used to have flat Coke and chocolate on their long rides too so I wouldn't put a lot of faith in it.

alfablue

you can always buy organic milk. It doesn't cost a lot more, £0.83 per litre.

Headhuunter

Soy protein is not as "bio available" as whey protein or specifically whey protein isolate. Your body can take whey protein on much more efficiently than soy and vegetable proteins. At least that's my understanding. However vegetable proteins are better than nothing.

After a hard ride I blend maltodextrin with whey protein and electrolyte salts and flavour with a bit of fruit juice. Maltodextrin is a complex carb so more easily absorbed than glucose or fructose (from fruit), electrolyte salts replace salts lost in sweat and protein helps repair muscle. Works wonders.

If I'm out somewhere and I need something to recover with, I often buy one of those carb and protein "Nurishment" drinks.

simon_e

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

I have read about high levels of oestrogen being added to cows milk, personally I drink organic skimmed milk, but I don't know if tat is any different.

The hormones are not added, they are the mummy cow's own hormones. They produce milk to feed their offspring so they calve frequently then the calf promptly whipped away and the milking machine goes on. Organic milk is sampled for antibiotics and if any is found the delivery cannot be sold as organic. Organic cows are farmed more extensively (outside) and eat more grass and less concentrate (which may contain all sorts of meat/fish based junk) than non-organic.

Soya drinks don't mimic milk, they provide a superficially similar liquid to put on your cereal in the morning or whatever because we are accustomed to drinking milk, even though every other mammal stops drinking milk at an early age. I don't think anyone who understands the difference would claim it is copying the structure of cow's milk - quite the opposite. Calcium and vitamins are added because people replace cow's milk with soya and supplementation is seen by many people as a good thing. Such supplements are not allowed in organic products so organic soya milk doesn't contain any.

Also, one of the comments on the original article pointed out that the bloke at McMcaster was paid by the North American dairy industries to do his research. So it's not suprise that he found "that soy protein is inferior to milk in promoting muscle accretion and muscle protein synthesis". I don't know if this is accurate, relevant or even possible. However, there are plenty of bodybuilders and athletes who don't drink cow's milk products. Milk myths & facts.

freehub

I tried Soya milk once, did not like it, might try it again some time.

robrauy

Simon E wrote:

Also, one of the comments on the original article pointed out that the bloke at McMcaster was paid by the North American dairy industries to do his research.

And it's not hard to discover who is promoting "Milk Myths and Facts"

simon johnson

I recently purchased the Zipvit recovery rapide - there's a few FAQs on the side of the bottle; one asks why they don't use soy protein. Their response is that is that "independent research studies have shown that small amounts of soy protein can reduce testosterone levels in men and alter levels of reproductive hormones in women", it then goes on to say that these will be detrimental to recovery and performance.

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Headhuunter

simon johnson wrote:

I recently purchased the Zipvit recovery rapide - there's a few FAQs on the side of the bottle; one asks why they don't use soy protein. Their response is that is that "independent research studies have shown that small amounts of soy protein can reduce testosterone levels in men and alter levels of reproductive hormones in women", it then goes on to say that these will be detrimental to recovery and performance.

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

There's a lot about soy and testosterone on the net. Basically, molecules in soy (and a number of other foods such as flaxseed) mimic the female hormone, estrogen. They are xenoestrogens. There have been a lot of studies and none of them have conclusively proved that xenoestrogens at the levels they exist in soy products affect male fertility etc. In fact some of the most major consumers of soy products are Asian countries and these countries in many cases have experienced population booms! If Asian males were made infertile by consuming soy products, surely we would have seen population crashes.

In any case, there is a massively higher level of estrogen in our tap water these days simply as a result of the investion of the contraceptive pilll in the 1960s. Women who take the pill which is essentially a massive dose of estrogen, then urinate this out of their bodies. Water companies in the UK do not filter estrogen out of the water, so this basically goes back into us. And no, your little Brita filter will not remove estrogen from tap water either.

So basically the soy vs male infertility thing is a load of old hocus.

neeb

I was one of the people who commented on that milk article - I got a little carried a away because the piece was really very biased, and this guy McMaster's research IS sponsored by the U.S. dairy industry (as you can discover if you do a little research online or look at that link I posted in the comment) so I would take his findings with a pinch of salt, as Cycling Plus & Bike Radar should have done...

The bottom line is that both chocolate milk and chocolate soya milk have what are thought to be ideal ratios of protein to carbohydrates for recovery immediately post exercise. The reason chocolate milk and choc soya milk are better than than regular milk or soya for this particular purpose is that they have more sugar in them, i.e. the carbs component. There may or may not be mild advantages to milk over soya milk given the precise balances of amino acids etc, but as soya is a generally a well-rounded source of protein both should basically do the job. Soya does have lower levels of one particular amino acid, but as this is abundant in cereals and nuts etc and you probably get plenty of it anyway.

And yes, Headhunter is right about the soy / testosterone thing being hocus. Large segments of the world's population eat large quantities of soya and have done for a long time. If there was any significant affect on male hormone levels it would be easily detectable from basic epidemiological data. As far as I know it's an isolated "in-vitro" hypothesis that has been exploited mercilessly by people who have vested interests in promoting dairy products over soya.

Personally I don't like milk and am also wary of the idea of consuming vast quantities of dairy products (which are also the main components of most powdered recovery drinks), as it may not be the best thing for long-term health. Chocolate soya milk works very well for me as a recovery drink, I really notice the difference when I have it immediately after a ride.

ricey155

interesting read

ive started using Whey Protien as ive been told it increases the blood flow to the muscle, i also use it with milk and being strawberry flavour tastes like a shake

maybe next batch i'll use the Holland & B chocky flavour

ride_whenever

ASAIK rego is soya based.

Chocolate milk is bad because of the lactose...

SteveR_100Milers

ride_whenever wrote:

ASAIK rego is soya based.

Chocolate milk is bad because of the lactose...

Why is lactose "bad" unless your are intolerant?

I have tried these a few times, the choc and the berry flavours. The liquid ones are semi skimmed milk based + whey powder, the powders are based on skimmed milk powder + whey. I have also used REGO, which is ok, and just plain skimmed milk, and soya "lite"

SteveR_100Milers

is this the most clueless review on the web?

http://www.ciao.co.uk/For_Goodness_Shak ... ew_5589617

Do some people really not bother reading or finding out about what they are about to shove inside them??

Ollieda

ha! thats brilliant. I love the bit where she says she "couldn't taste the vitamins or minerals"

Headhuunter

Ricey155 wrote:

interesting read

ive started using Whey Protien as ive been told it increases the blood flow to the muscle, i also use it with milk and being strawberry flavour tastes like a shake

maybe next batch i'll use the Holland & B chocky flavour

I don't think the flavour actually matters! It's the proportion of carbs vs protein that make it effcetive, just because it tastes like chocolate rather than strawberry is irrelevant.

Headhuunter

neeb wrote:

I was one of the people who commented on that milk article - I got a little carried a away because the piece was really very biased, and this guy McMaster's research IS sponsored by the U.S. dairy industry (as you can discover if you do a little research online or look at that link I posted in the comment) so I would take his findings with a pinch of salt, as Cycling Plus & Bike Radar should have done...

The bottom line is that both chocolate milk and chocolate soya milk have what are thought to be ideal ratios of protein to carbohydrates for recovery immediately post exercise. The reason chocolate milk and choc soya milk are better than than regular milk or soya for this particular purpose is that they have more sugar in them, i.e. the carbs component. There may or may not be mild advantages to milk over soya milk given the precise balances of amino acids etc, but as soya is a generally a well-rounded source of protein both should basically do the job. Soya does have lower levels of one particular amino acid, but as this is abundant in cereals and nuts etc and you probably get plenty of it anyway.

And yes, Headhunter is right about the soy / testosterone thing being hocus. Large segments of the world's population eat large quantities of soya and have done for a long time. If there was any significant affect on male hormone levels it would be easily detectable from basic epidemiological data. As far as I know it's an isolated "in-vitro" hypothesis that has been exploited mercilessly by people who have vested interests in promoting dairy products over soya.

Personally I don't like milk and am also wary of the idea of consuming vast quantities of dairy products (which are also the main components of most powdered recovery drinks), as it may not be the best thing for long-term health. Chocolate soya milk works very well for me as a recovery drink, I really notice the difference when I have it immediately after a ride.

Yes, I have concerns about consuming too much dairy. I've read that it's very difficult if not impossible for our bodies to entirely digest milk in its entirity and inevitably some remains in the gut, turning into a kind of grey goo. However I've also read that soy/vegetable protein is not as easily absorbed as animal protein. However in terms of production, apparently if world production of soy was fed directly to human beings rather than to cattle for meat production and then to humans, there would be an enormous reduction in agricultural waste, greenhouse gas production and destruction of natural habitats for cattle ranching (often on rainforest in South America).

glauciaregina9

I always assumed the emphasis on chocolate flavour milk for recovery was because there's something in chocolate that aids the process...

At the end of the day, try stuff out and see what works for you and what you prefer the taste of etc...

If you're a pro athlete competing at the very peak of your sport then it might make a difference, but other than that it's probably not really relevant...

For what it's worth, I blend 1 banana, 1tsp cocoa powder, scoop of whey protein & 500ml skimmed milk as a recovery drink... love the taste, and it's got all the components of what might be a good recovery drink, although this depends entirely upon what 'scientific' research is being pedalled this week... (que? cynical? moi?)

8)

Headhuunter

glauciaregina9 wrote:

I always assumed the emphasis on chocolate flavour milk for recovery was because there's something in chocolate that aids the process...

At the end of the day, try stuff out and see what works for you and what you prefer the taste of etc...

If you're a pro athlete competing at the very peak of your sport then it might make a difference, but other than that it's probably not really relevant...

For what it's worth, I blend 1 banana, 1tsp cocoa powder, scoop of whey protein & 500ml skimmed milk as a recovery drink... love the taste, and it's got all the components of what might be a good recovery drink, although this depends entirely upon what 'scientific' research is being pedalled this week... (que? cynical? moi?)

8)

I'm not sure there's much if any real chocolate in these types of drinks, they are generally made to a minimum standard I think and chocolate flavouring is much cheaper than genuine cocoa solids. I shouldn't think the amount of actual chocolate, if there is any, would make much difference to recovery.

It's like these margarine/spreads or eggs etc which claim to have omega 3 in them, the amount of omega 3 is so miniscule that you would literally have to eat 2 dozen eggs or 2 kilo tubs of margarine in 1 sitting to actually make a difference to your omega 3 levels. Far better to actually eat oily fish or take a high strength cod liver oil supplemenmt

If you feel that chocolate makes a difference, better to buy some 80% cocoa solids, plain chocolate from the supermarket and eat a couple of cubes of that. High strength chocolate has antioxidant properties, but you shouldn't eat more than a couple of chunks if you want to maximise its effects without getting fat. If you don't care about the fat then get stuck in!

edeverett

I'm lactose intolerant and read those articles a while ago about chocolate milk. I then searched around for comparisons of soya milk to real milk and it seems they've got much the same sort of proteins in (ok, real milk might be better, but downing a pint of real milk wasn't an option)

So I started mixing a the soya milk with hot chocolate powder (cold) as a post-ride drink. I think it works great. It feels like I recover a better. Not scientific, but it works for me.

SteveR_100Milers

edeverett wrote:

I'm lactose intolerant and read those articles a while ago about chocolate milk. I then searched around for comparisons of soya milk to real milk and it seems they've got much the same sort of proteins in (ok, real milk might be better, but downing a pint of real milk wasn't an option)

So I started mixing a the soya milk with hot chocolate powder (cold) as a post-ride drink. I think it works great. It feels like I recover a better. Not scientific, but it works for me.

Which after all, is all that matters, everything else is just opinion