Power, is it all that?
Comments
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Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
The relationship between power & HR is not as strong as you might think, such that you could not effectively do what you suggest.Escargot wrote:Surely if you are able to apply sustained power over time (at any given level) this will relate to a consistent HR. Thus is it not possible to work back ?
This is especially so when riding outdoors, whenever an effort is variable, whenever conditions vary and as the intensity level rises (let alone other non-riding factors that might influence HR responses).
If you do not have a power meter, then HR can play a somewhat useful role in providing information on effort level. One just needs to be informed about its limitations.
If you have a power meter though, then having HR info is at best redundant.
Cadence is meaningless as a measure of intensity. You also need to know how much force you are applying to the pedals (IOW, knowing cadence without simultaneous knowledge of forces, torque or power is of no practical training benefit).
Many thanks for the info Alex
I guess, as the OP has mentioned, I'm just wondering if you can still get meaningful and consistent results using cheaper methods (I just couldn't justify paying £1000 for PM and would probably benefit more from £1000 of decent coaching in any case
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The scenario I was mentioning was purely related to indoor training on a turbo/rollers where you could keep the resistance constant and maintain a consistent cadence. I thought that this would be the same, if not very similar, than if you had a power meter, only you wouldn't know how much power you'd be developing. This was where the HRM came in as it would at least give an indication of where you were at in terms of training zones.
Are you saying that a PM would still offer significant benefits ?
I appreciate that outside a PM would be much more informative but sadly all it would tell me is that I'm not able to maintain consistent power with a headwind/sidewind/incline/cold/etc. 0 -
Bronzie wrote:
I personally think the Performance Manager Chart found in the WKO+ software is probably the single most useful aspect of training with power - it is effectively a graphical summary of how good (or not!) your training has been (especially over the past 3 months) and allows the self-coached rider to plan weekly training loads in order to hit peak form at the right time for target events.Escargot wrote:Have to say that I can understand the benefits of a power meter but why does this give far superior benefit over a heart rate monitor, cadence and resistance?
Overkill for many perhaps, but now I've really got to grips with it I have found it really useful for setting weekly and longer-terms training targets rather than training like a headless chicken (which I tried last year and found to be "sub-optimal" to say the least).
Now headless chicken training is an area that I excel in. In fact I'm redefining the method this year and am already doing pretty well
I think my problem is that I believe I need to ride more first and get some more serious miles in my legs before I start embarking on any serious training regime. Or is that my problem already ?0 -
You don't know what a PM will tell you until you use one.Escargot wrote:I appreciate that outside a PM would be much more informative but sadly all it would tell me is that I'm not able to maintain consistent power with a headwind/sidewind/incline/cold/etc.
When you start out, fitness gains are relatively large and measurement method to assess performance is less important.
As you get fitter, the gains become smaller, more incremental (as Jeff is saying) such that the measurement error in power proxy estimates from hill climb times, or using speed on a turbo etc, are greater than the level of fitness gains being sought.
I can get a power meter imported new for ~ A$700-800 which is ~ 450 pounds. Not sure what sort of power meters you are looking at or how much they are in UK. That would be a wired powertap comp built into a decent rim.0 -
I believe Bob Tobin at cyclepowermeters.com can offer PowerTap Comps at similar price level. I believe they are not officially available in the UK, but he told me he could get them to order.Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:I can get a power meter imported new for ~ A$700-800 which is ~ 450 pounds. Not sure what sort of power meters you are looking at or how much they are in UK. That would be a wired powertap comp built into a decent rim.
There is of course also the option to rent for 3 months for £10/wk to see how you get on with it. Bob will refund 50% of the rental against the purchase price if you then decide to buy. Top man!0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
You don't know what a PM will tell you until you use one.Escargot wrote:I appreciate that outside a PM would be much more informative but sadly all it would tell me is that I'm not able to maintain consistent power with a headwind/sidewind/incline/cold/etc.
When you start out, fitness gains are relatively large and measurement method to assess performance is less important.
As you get fitter, the gains become smaller, more incremental (as Jeff is saying) such that the measurement error in power proxy estimates from hill climb times, or using speed on a turbo etc, are greater than the level of fitness gains being sought.
I can get a power meter imported new for ~ A$700-800 which is ~ 450 pounds. Not sure what sort of power meters you are looking at or how much they are in UK. That would be a wired powertap comp built into a decent rim.
Thanks again Alex
In truth I've not been seriously looking but have seen them going for a shade under £1000.
I'm in a bit of a predicament really as I only started cycling at the beginning of last year. Most of my riding is very sociable and my riding buddy and I spend at least 80% of our rides talking. Thus pace is moderate but very enjoyable.
I spent what time I had applying the 10% rule (up to a max of 90 miles by the end of the year) and midweek doing intervals. Not a fantastic training regime but one I enjoyed as a beginner.
Now I'm wondering if I should train more seriously so that I improve my fitness as effectively as possible - not to enter any races but so that my training is as efficient as possible.
However I'm wondering if this type of approach is ultimately worth it for someone that rides recreationally and enters sportives. Thus I doubt a PM is really worth it, despite the fact I can see how good they would be.0 -
I'm not sure it's been explicitly stated anywhere (maybe because it's obvious to those using powermeters), but if your analysis of a ride/session is as in depth as "sweet, I did my normal route 30 seconds quicker today", then I can see why a powermeter might seem like an expensive toy just to give you another reading on your cycle computer.
Every single person that trains with power (not just records their power while training, there is a difference) will be using software like WKO+ to track sessions in detail and see their progress over many months.
Powermeters and computer based analysis go hand in hand. If you're not interested in doing your training in this way then yes, a powermeter would be an expensive toy and a waste of money.0 -
I think the software method would be the idea if I ever started to use a PM.
Most of my (non cycling) training either involves a TGS key or spreadsheets to track my progress with running/weights etc.
Some sort of software/logging device would be ideal as a tool but I fear I'd be heading towards a realm that is too advanced for the type of athelete that I am.0 -
Looking back over my data since December, up to mid Feb I was using my PT on my road bike on my turbo, and since then it's been on my TT bike. With the different position my watts went down on the TT bike as I was mostly on the hoods before, now the watts are much improved the in the TT position. TTs were my main event last season.
The aero position will obviously help but out of interest which position do you use when training hard?0 -
Shimples. Train in the position you intend to race in (or race most in).0
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Bronzie wrote:Shimples. Train in the position you intend to race in (or race most in).
head down, broken, alone wondering where that big group of riders went?Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0
