Optimising Fitness During Longish Commute

meanredspider

Here's one of my alternative routes that I did this evening

http://www.alfa.me.uk/images/altcycleroute.jpg

Does this count as hilly? Had a slow puncture (stupid bloody Slime inners - they didn't stop the original puncture and now patches won't adhere. Gone back to standard inners tonight) which didn't help. Certainly will improve my climbing ability. Heavy rain forecast tomorrow & heavy snow Wed.

chrisw12

Fair play you have the right attitude and riding to and from work 5 days a week is a good effort

a couple of tips towards your target

as the days get walmer your times are guarateed to improve

what tyres are you using (as you know from motorsport) tyres are the most cost effecive way to faster times. Stick some latex tubes and take a risk for your 20mph days.

amaferanga

meanredspider wrote:

Here's one of my alternative routes that I did this evening

http://www.alfa.me.uk/images/altcycleroute.jpg

Does this count as hilly? Had a slow puncture (stupid bloody Slime inners - they didn't stop the original puncture and now patches won't adhere. Gone back to standard inners tonight) which didn't help. Certainly will improve my climbing ability. Heavy rain forecast tomorrow & heavy snow Wed.

That's pretty close to the route I took over the Black Isle. Doesn't look rolling to me! I must have mis-remembered....

meanredspider

chrisw12 wrote:

what tyres are you using (as you know from motorsport) tyres are the most cost effecive way to faster times. Stick some latex tubes and take a risk for your 20mph days.

I'm using Conti Ultra Gatorskins (for puncture protection). The roads I ride are pretty grim in places - one of my faster downhill sections is barely more than a farm track - single track with gravel up the middle and potholes on the edges. Motorsport has at least taught me to look where I want to go and focus on the gap rather than the obstruction (and an unhealthy disregard for my own self-preservation in the pursuit of adrenalin). There's plenty of glass in town too.

Can't wait for the temperatures to be above 4C in the morning - toes freeze in my road shoes without overshoes.

Crimmey

To answer your question on muscle gain, don't do big weights. Cycling will not give you humongous thighs, if that is what you are worried about. In fact you will put little, if any muscle on your legs.

meanredspider

Crimmey wrote:

To answer your question on muscle gain, don't do big weights. Cycling will not give you humongous thighs, if that is what you are worried about. In fact you will put little, if any muscle on your legs.

I guess that translates into not mashing the pedals up the steep hills? I've lost 2" from around my waist (now 32" - I'm 6' and 95kg) but I'm only 1kg lighter than when I started so I've definitely gained muscle mass which I can feel on my thighs and see on my calves. I also can feel how much more toned my core is - including pecs (which surprised me).

I know that this is going to be a stupid question but how many calories am I likely to burn on my ride? Various estimates are between 1000-1600kcals per day. The question is because I want to lose fat but not be short of energy so want to figure out how much extra I should be eating.

Team Banana Spokesman

meanredspider wrote:

I guess that translates into not mashing the pedals up the steep hills? I've lost 2" from around my waist (now 32" - I'm 6' and 95kg) but I'm only 1kg lighter than when I started so I've definitely gained muscle mass which I can feel on my thighs and see on my calves. I also can feel how much more toned my core is - including pecs (which surprised me).

I know that this is going to be a stupid question but how many calories am I likely to burn on my ride? Various estimates are between 1000-1600kcals per day. The question is because I want to lose fat but not be short of energy so want to figure out how much extra I should be eating.

wow. new can of worms opened up in every post! a lot of things covered here have been argued to death on here and are controversial but ill summarize things:

- i asked about mashing pedals/chosen cadence recently and nobody could give me any scientific evidence that low revs = more muscle mass compared to higher revs at the same effort/power. it feels more like weight lifting though. at the end of the day its the power you produce which determines how your body adapts. spinning up a hill is the same as mashing provided the effort is the same. both feel different though. all personal preference.

- weight: how are you weighing yourself? hydration levels can mess up your weight by 5% each way. you might appear heavier but you could just be very hydrated compared to dehydrated when you were fatter. cycling doesnt really build muscle mass that much. muscles tend to get more dense rather than bulging out to a bigger volume. more capiliaries in your muscles appear over time so you can deliver more oxygen to the muscles. think of it as making rural areas more accessible by building more roads. this doesnt really increase weight that much but gives you more power. in fact, look up some posts by "alex_simmons/rst" who has proven many times that gym work to increase muscle mass can be counter productive to increasing aerobic power. a toned looking core will more likely be because you are losing weight and the muscle definition is being more exposed...

- only way to know calories is to measure your power output using an expensive power meter. a device measuring torque applied through pedals or wheels to determine the actual energy you are putting through the bike. hr-monitors tend to over estimate calories. as you get fitter and can put out more power per unit of time you potentially can burn more calories per unit of time for the same percieved exertion. so pro riders need to eat loads to stop rapid calorie deficit and weight loss. improved power makes weight loss easier but people who ride and starve themselves to lose weight also lose power in the process so make it harder to lose wieght sustainably...

meanredspider

Thanks TBS (I'll refrain from quoting your extensive post)

I knew that this would be a can of worms 8)

Weighing - I jump on the scales before showering when I get home. As I don't drink on my journey (but sweat plenty) I figure that this is as consistent as I can get. I used exactly the same approach when I did a big weight loss effort about 3 years ago and started running. I lost 2.5 stone at 2lb a week very consistently. I've maintained that weight loss.

I have no doubt my thighs are bigger - my jeans are now tight at the thighs and loose at the waist (rather than the other way around). Judging by a manual rough & ready skin pinch test, my thighs are now very lean too. I've been told in the past that I have the body type that puts on muscle very easily (equally so fat). I wish now that I'd taken proper measurement before I started.

I thought the mashing versus spinning thing was to do with slow twitch and fast twitch muscle? I've certainly focused on cadence and now average 93rpm and getting faster.

The calories thing I knew would be hopeless. I did look into a power meter but one would cost more than my bike did (and I can always find better ways of spending money on my race car). My calorie intake hasn't increased too much - a couple of extra bananas and cereal bars spread out through the day. Even if my HRM gets it wrong by a factor of 100% too high (double), I have to be burning 900kcals extra.

Anonymous

The last 2 questions not aired yet are....

Japanese component company or Italian ?

Does a certain Texan cyclist dope ?

meanredspider

dmclite wrote:

The last 2 questions not aired yet are....

Japanese component company or Italian ?

Does a certain Texan cyclist dope ?

Yup - wasn't going to get around to these.

1. Easy - I have Japanese but, as a confirmed Alfisti (see www.alfa.me.uk), I wish that I had Italian (in fact, if I had more money than sense, I'd buy an Alfa Romeo bike - all Italian except the tyres)

2. Don't care

Pross

This is my old commute, not as hilly as the OP's but I used to average 20mph without ever really pushing it.

http://www.mapmyride.com/route/gb/cwmbran/719126994847740220

Strangely, not only was I not an elite racer but I never picked up a point in my 7 seasons as a junior and 3rd cat racer - I must have been doing something wrong or would I have had to average at least 22mph due to the flatness of my route before the pro contract came through the post?

It's ridiculous to say averaging 19mph for a 15 mile ride would mean someone could make it as an elite cyclist. There's a huge difference in that and racing at 23 or 24mph averages for 100 miles plus. It may mean you could make a good short distance time triallist or be good at racing crits (although the ability to accelerate hard is more important than average speed). Unfortunately there are people on here who think if they can't do something then no-one else can.

amaferanga

Pross wrote:

This is my old commute, not as hilly as the OP's but I used to average 20mph without ever really pushing it.

http://www.mapmyride.com/route/gb/cwmbran/719126994847740220

Strangely, not only was I not an elite racer but I never picked up a point in my 7 seasons as a junior and 3rd cat racer - I must have been doing something wrong or would I have had to average at least 22mph due to the flatness of my route before the pro contract came through the post?

It's ridiculous to say averaging 19mph for a 15 mile ride would mean someone could make it as an elite cyclist. There's a huge difference in that and racing at 23 or 24mph averages for 100 miles plus. It may mean you could make a good short distance time triallist or be good at racing crits (although the ability to accelerate hard is more important than average speed). Unfortunately there are people on here who think if they can't do something then no-one else can.

I think the way the statement was put across initially had people thinking it was a hillier route than it now appears to be. Certainly my initial thoughts were there must be one hell of a hill somewhere on the route, which combined with junctions, traffic lights, etc. would have made it a very impressive average speed. As it is its still damn impressive and quicker than most people could manage, which clearly upsets a few folk.

As for your averaging 20mph on your route - its completely different. That's a flat blast along an A road

softlad

Pross wrote:

This is my old commute, not as hilly as the OP's but I used to average 20mph without ever really pushing it.

http://www.mapmyride.com/route/gb/cwmbran/719126994847740220

not as hilly..?? It's flat...!

Pross

It's not flat there's a 2.5 mile climb on the route at about 2% average

My new commute is going to be way flatter

doyler78

Mapmyride is pathetic for giving you any idea of gradient or for totalling ascent as compared with my polar. bikehike.co.uk gives the closest approximation to what my polar says.

My routes are all very rolling as there really isn't much that is flat where I live yet if I do a mapmyride route it looks almost flat as a pancake.

chrisw12

Pross wrote:

It's not flat there's a 2.5 mile climb on the route at about 2% average

My new commute is going to be way flatter

You're a p. taker, That's the flatest ride in South Wales! Screaming fast dual for some of it and absolutely no lights. Throw in the mass of lorries that use it as well, I'd be disappointed not to average 25mph on that route.

and it doesn't take no where near a hour!

meanredspider

I've finally capitulated this evening. After the worst ride of my life this morning (1.5C, horizontal icy snow and sleet, 25mph winds) when I had to walk the bike across the Kessock Bridge (I simply couldn't steer the thing and didn't fancy either a 80m dive into the Moray Firth or a trip under truck wheels), I've finally phoned for a lift home (pizza in town first). Heavy snow forecast for tomorrow with 30+mph winds. I know, I'm a whimp....

simon_e

meanredspider wrote:

I know, I'm a whimp....

No, I'd suggest that discretion is the better part of valour in that kind of weather.

I don't see why the fuss about your av. speed, I think a few people are getting distracted (or a bit green-eyed). Since you are already riding against the clock you are probably doing what you should. Don't start too hard and you'll have more speed towards the end of the ride. I find that going home the days I eat a small snack an hour or so before leaving the office I am less tired towards the end of my 35 minute ride.

If you're looking to drop weight then watching what you eat overall is the answer. Admittedly not easy when riding twice a day. Also it's also easier to shed weight in the warmer months, I find the body retains mass (and I put on weight more easily) in the colder months. What you say about your physiology suggest you're never going to be a racing snake so don't worry too much about it.

If you just want to be quicker at one distance then doing that distance is the best form of training. However, the body does adapt to stresses and most people find they plateau after a while. You can improve further by varying your routine. Mixing intervals (those short, intense efforts) with easy 'recovery' days should bring further gains.

meanredspider

Thanks Simon. I'm only now learning about the more technical aspects of cycling.

Sound advice - I have a few routes open to me so I can continue to push myself especially if I want to add more hills, without necessarily adding too many miles. Other days I can take it easier (though I find it hard to take it truly easy - it's not in my nature). You're also right about putting on weight in the winter - that's me all over - then a bit of a panic when the car racing season appears on the horizon. I'm trying to moderate what I eat and also spread it across the day more evenly. Hydrating properly is another of my goals - I perspire freely but not great at putting it back and I know how important that is.

chrisw12

Sorry double post (too much cider) :oops:

chrisw12

Simon E wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I know, I'm a whimp....

No, I'd suggest that discretion is the better part of valour in that kind of weather.

I don't see why the fuss about your av. speed, I think a few people are getting distracted (or a bit green-eyed). .

Reality.

New rider (and the shi position and shi equipment (conti gatorskins with a tube filled with slime ffs) that goes with it, nothing to do with fitness.)

Commute (commute<proper training<race)

Hills

Wind

5 days a week.

1 hour (x2)

NO way 19 mph average of the averages.

But the rest of your advice is absolutely spot on. (seriously)

In retrospect, your advice suggests a seasoned cyclist. So a question, could you manage 10x1hour over 5 days @20mph, commuting? (with gatorskins )

Genuinely interested and might try it myself (but by Thursday I'll be back to the 'I want the car today', I'm tired argument with the BOSS)

meanredspider

chrisw12 wrote:

Reality.

New rider (and the shi position and shi equipment (conti gatorskins with a tube filled with slime ffs) that goes with it, nothing to do with fitness.)

Commute (commute<proper training<race)

Hills

Wind

5 days a week.

1 hour (x2)

I should correct a few bits of this perception.

I'm new to this commuting malarky - at least this distance - but I'm not new to cycling. I grew up in Cambridge so, up to about 20, I went everywhere on a bike. When I worked in Cambridge (10 years ago? for 3 years) I used to do a 5 mile-ish each off-road commute. I've done a lot of Spinning over the last couple of years too. So please don't assume I'm a complete newbie. Just new to this.

The Gatorskins (or something equally tough) are a necessity if I don't want to average 20mph but stop 3 times to fix flats a day. I'm going to try without the Slimes as I'm really unconvinced by them.

As I've said, I rarely do 5 days. I only carry a waist bag for phones, wallet etc and swap clothes, towel etc by car on a Wed or Thurs.

And I understand what you're saying about commuting being < proper training but I try to make it as close to training as I know how (hence this thread). I've participated in serious sport most of my life so I'm familiar with the "no pain no gain" regime and I'm pretty hard on myself.

So I'm grateful for constructive help in doing better. Equally, if there's better puncture resistant tyres or anything else I could be doing, then I'm all ears.

simon_e

chrisw12 wrote:

Reality.

Whose?

Several people have commented (in what I read as a slightly negative way) on someone else's reality by benchmarking it against their own. Until you ride the same roads your data is not really comparable. MRS asked for advice on how to use his commute to get fitter & faster.

If you were in a similar position what would you do to get quicker?

meanredspider wrote:

if there's better puncture resistant tyres or anything else I could be doing, then I'm all ears.

. Bontrager Race Lite Hardcase (£12 here) and standard inner tubes.

I don't know if it's relevant to this thread but I found another thread in this forum interesting: "What are your thoughts on this TT training plan???"

meanredspider

Simon E wrote:

Bontrager Race Lite Hardcase (£12 here) and standard inner tubes.

I don't know if it's relevant to this thread but I found another thread in this forum interesting: "What are your thoughts on this TT training plan???"

Cool - I'll give them a try next.

Interesting thread, in particular the comment on "sustainable progressive overload" which is probably what's been working for me - just constantly pushing that bit harder.

I'm off work looking after my sons whilst wife and daughter are in England for the week so I've been tackling some steeper sustained slopes just to keep my legs going and maybe improve my climbing speed a bit.

carrock

people's averages are all over the place

One recent poster is adamant he can ride 60 miles in 3 hours- thats a 20mph average.

And he's 16 stone....

carrock

People's averages are all over the place- one recent poster is adamant he can do 60 miles in 3 hours, despite being 15/16 stone

For me, that would be a phenomenal achievement, on the other hand, I would guess some riders of average weight wouldn't get near that

We're all different I guess- probably best to concentrate on improving, and not compare to others