Are sportifs wrong?
Comments
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Exactly!
If you can ride a £120 bike at 35 km/h for 140 km then you'll have lungs like a blue whale and a good bit of ability
I love technology0 -
bompington wrote:
Well I'm glad I do mine on a £120 bike then, that must mean I can get away with anythingMrRex wrote:most of the poor riding was performed by guys on £1500 bikes! I.e. absolutely no excuse.
And presumably by that token as I paid more than that for mine, my riding should be absolutely exemplary *quickly zips up flapping jacket*.
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a good bike by no means means any one has either traffic sense or group riding skills.
lead a slow club run with new faces and it's always the nice bikes with lovely carbon weave and the fit looking chap/lady that give one the heart in mouth moments.
same goes for events be they sportive/charity etc.
I'm not against them, they give a nice route but I see no point in doing something local nor anything that is a fair wedge of cash. as frankly I don't take them seriously.
give people space and assume they are fools (if nice ones) until otherwise proven and you'll be fine.0 -
Snoppy wrote:If you look at the majority of cycling clubs you will see that most of them do not even support sportives. I do sportives and I am in a club but to be blunt 80% of the members of cycling clubs think sportives are for newbies/gringos and are unsafe due to new riders.
Wrong wrong wrong! Or at least in the case of the Worcestershire and South Midlands it is wrong. Go to an event like the Mad March Hare and the bulk of riders will be club riders.
In the case of my own club, I maintain a digest of who has ridden in what event, there is a huge number that participate in sportives and audaxes. Our neighbours are also very visible at events. As I stated in an earlier thread, quite a few clubs welcome sportives as a mechanism for generating interest from newbies interested in the sport. Audaxes are also attracting sportivers who seek more challenging endurance rides.
Perhaps it is a geographical thing.
If anyone here is a member of an unwelcoming club in the Midlands or is an independant sportiver looking for a club that welcomes riders, please feel free to turnup on a Beacon Club run or enter one of our audaxes. You will be welcomed!0 -
Find the right club. Some are racing teams, some are old fashioned. But many clubs might be right for you too.Snoppy wrote:If you look at the majority of cycling clubs you will see that most of them do not even support sportives. I do sportives and I am in a club but to be blunt 80% of the members of cycling clubs think sportives are for newbies/gringos and are unsafe due to new riders.0 -
It is really concerning/funny the obsession with either "beginners" or "elitist snobs". Since I joined a club and have since learnt a lot about cycling in groups, which can be really daunting for new riders. Most of the points raised by Rex are sensible, calling out obsticales seems like a faf at first but makes a lot of sense very quickly. It isn't elitest, it is about looking after those about you. I rode for years as a 1 or 2 but your perceptions and thought process HAS to change when there are more of you about.
My club regularly has 30 riders in a group which needs all riders to be paying attention so that we are a safe and compact bunch for ourselves and other road users. A quick shout of out(e.g. for a parked car) or hole keeps people safe.
If someone passes a little guidance to you on road/bunch craft it isn't that you are being given a hard time it can help you enjoy your day more.
Keep smiling people, we are all cyclists and we all need to look out for each other. It doesn't matter if you are a roadie, MTBer or other you still go squish when you come off!0 -
And personally I think any club cyclist who is against Sportives is probably going to be some elitest pillock anyway and I've come across a few in my time, a lot which aren't actually that good on a bike. Just very set in their ways.[/quote]oldwelshman wrote:
Thats a bit harsh, unless you know every club cyclist in britain personally and can comment on them.
I know several very good riders who are against them not because of any elitist attitude but more because of what they reagard as extortionist cost and some poor riding by some people as OP stated.
I also do not see where the OP stated that his points related to novices.
from my experience it is not the novices that demonstrate the crap riding and etiquette but more wanabee racers not fit enough or fast enough to race, yet the draft anyone they can, go through lights, dengerous in groups etc trying to get a fast a time as possible.
Most novices I have seen tend to be quite tentative but safe.
I have ridden with a few for short periods for a chat and they often ask for advice. I wonder how many wanabee racers have stopped and chatted with "novices 2 during a ride, not many probably as they want to get a bronze probably !!
There are also many racing guys who now do sportives also so thers a mixture of riders and abilities, just depends where you end up on a ride as to how lucky you are with respect to bad or good riding. I have been in some good groups on dragon ride once, and on another ride towed some riders for miles without them going through or even saying that they were too tired not to.
You alwyas have the choice to ride them or not.
Personally I do not ride them now for cost reasons mainly, niot too worried about quality of riders as you can ride along with the good ones and drop the crap ones[/quote]
Yeah, probably was a bit harsh, but I can only go on my own experiences. Before I got into the sport i already had a few mates who were either very good club riders or who raced a lot, and I distinctly remember one of them telling me how elitest the sport can be and how it has a tendancy to attract the odd weirdo...;-)0 -
redddraggon wrote:Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, Etape, etc, they are worth doing. But I don't see the point in paying £25 odd quid to ride on normal everyday UK roads.
I don't need to pay to ride with a bunch of pretend racers to enjoy myself. I enjoy cycling for cycling, not for some overpriced overhyped events. If I want timed rides, I do something meaningful like a TT.
Perhaps it's because I live both in North Wales and right next to the Peak District, and not somewhere sh!tty like London, so 95% of my rides have great scenery and climbs on quiet roads, so I don't need "events".
Well if I use the wales dragon as an example, I hadn't even been to Wales before I did it the first time, so it was a great way to see the countryside and the hills. I wouldn't have had the opportunity to go otherwise. I also like the idea of riding with people I don't know, and a variety of different people, which I don't get in club runs. And I like to see how I stack up against others. £25.00 might seem a lot but considering the fun I get out of them, plus I'm sure a lot of you spend far more than that on bits for your bike you don't necessarily need. I really don't see the problem with the fee.
But then I'm weird like that.0 -
Kléber wrote:
Find the right club. Some are racing teams, some are old fashioned. But many clubs might be right for you too.Snoppy wrote:If you look at the majority of cycling clubs you will see that most of them do not even support sportives. I do sportives and I am in a club but to be blunt 80% of the members of cycling clubs think sportives are for newbies/gringos and are unsafe due to new riders.
Another issue for me at the moment is I don't have the time to commit to any club. I've been riding with a few and they've been fun, but with 2 kids under 4 and other commitments I mainly ride with friends or alone at the moment, as I can ride when I want and as far/fast as I want. I'm lucky that I have a few mates who are very good riders so it's like we've got our own little club atm..;-)
I will end up joining a club at some stage though and can really see the benefit in them. I think as I get older I'll be more into the social side, cafe stops etc, but right now i'm a bit of a fitness freak and tend to train hard when I ride.
I get enough group riding practice in and the Sportives enable me to test myself and meet new people as well.
And Will, no i'm not saying you have to ride with 3000 other people to have a good ride.
Don't be a tool.0 -
redddraggon wrote:Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, Etape, etc, they are worth doing. But I don't see the point in paying £25 odd quid to ride on normal everyday UK roads.
I don't need to pay to ride with a bunch of pretend racers to enjoy myself. I enjoy cycling for cycling, not for some overpriced overhyped events. If I want timed rides, I do something meaningful like a TT.
Perhaps it's because I live both in North Wales and right next to the Peak District, and not somewhere sh!tty like London, so 95% of my rides have great scenery and climbs on quiet roads, so I don't need "events".
"Not somewhere shitty like London"?
What's that supposed to mean?0 -
I think most of the comments about the safety aspects by the OP were fair enough. I've nearly been taken out several times by people switching lanes or swerving into me and can't see why anybody would take a comment regarding riding safely as elitist or snobby.
Riding in a close pack is an aquired skill, nothing more.
I've also seen loads of accidents (some quite nasty) on organised events that could have been avoided by better roadsense. I wonder how many people that enter a sportive and break a limb are really encouraged into cycling.
Not sure I understand the comment about the jacket.0 -
bompington wrote:Oh dear. Another "keep cycling for Real Cyclists" campaign.
Unfortunately it does sound a bit like it. I see where the OP is coming from but there seems to be a bit of resentment of those who haven't "paid their dues" in some way. Sure there are some dicks on sportives, just as there are on club runs, but that doesn't make them a bad thing.
As for why people would do them: It's a good day out, as others have said it's fun to be part of a big event, and you can go to a bit of the country you're unfamiliar with knowing you're going to get a good ride round the good bits without having to faff around with maps.* What's not to like?
* Not that faffing around with maps is necessarily a bad thing, but wanting a ride to be just a ride sometimes isn't either and has nothing to do with being too stupid/lazy to read a map.0 -
BTW - just to make it clear. I love Sportives and see them as a way to cycle in places where I wouldn't normally and generally in much more demanding terrain.
I also see that the problems are caused by a smallish minority and feel that the emphasis should be to get them up to the level rather than moan about them.
My own club runs several sportives each year and also has specific beginner sessions every week where people are gently taught about all aspects of road cycling in packs whilst building fitness, so not all clubs are elitist
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sampras38 wrote:Well if I use the wales dragon as an example, I hadn't even been to Wales before I did it the first time, so it was a great way to see the countryside and the hills. I wouldn't have had the opportunity to go otherwise. I also like the idea of riding with people I don't know, and a variety of different people, which I don't get in club runs. And I like to see how I stack up against others. £25.00 might seem a lot but considering the fun I get out of them, plus I'm sure a lot of you spend far more than that on bits for your bike you don't necessarily need. I really don't see the problem with the fee.
But then I'm weird like that.redddraggon wrote:Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, Etape, etc, they are worth doing. But I don't see the point in paying £25 odd quid to ride on normal everyday UK roads.
I don't need to pay to ride with a bunch of pretend racers to enjoy myself. I enjoy cycling for cycling, not for some overpriced overhyped events. If I want timed rides, I do something meaningful like a TT.
Perhaps it's because I live both in North Wales and right next to the Peak District, and not somewhere sh!tty like London, so 95% of my rides have great scenery and climbs on quiet roads, so I don't need "events".
I think you lost the point that my opinions on sportives are how they relate to me, hence the large number of I s I use.sampras38 wrote:"Not somewhere shitty like London"?
What's that supposed to mean?
Where's better for Cycling North Wales and the Peak District or London?
It wasn't a dig at you, it's just a fact that London is a sh!tty place to live if you want decent cycling country.0 -
redddraggon wrote:sampras38 wrote:Well if I use the wales dragon as an example, I hadn't even been to Wales before I did it the first time, so it was a great way to see the countryside and the hills. I wouldn't have had the opportunity to go otherwise. I also like the idea of riding with people I don't know, and a variety of different people, which I don't get in club runs. And I like to see how I stack up against others. £25.00 might seem a lot but considering the fun I get out of them, plus I'm sure a lot of you spend far more than that on bits for your bike you don't necessarily need. I really don't see the problem with the fee.
But then I'm weird like that.redddraggon wrote:Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, Etape, etc, they are worth doing. But I don't see the point in paying £25 odd quid to ride on normal everyday UK roads.
I don't need to pay to ride with a bunch of pretend racers to enjoy myself. I enjoy cycling for cycling, not for some overpriced overhyped events. If I want timed rides, I do something meaningful like a TT.
Perhaps it's because I live both in North Wales and right next to the Peak District, and not somewhere sh!tty like London, so 95% of my rides have great scenery and climbs on quiet roads, so I don't need "events".
I think you lost the point that my opinions on sportives are how they relate to me, hence the large number of I s I use.sampras38 wrote:"Not somewhere shitty like London"?
What's that supposed to mean?
Where's better for Cycling North Wales and the Peak District or London?
It wasn't a dig at you, it's just a fact that London is a sh!tty place to live if you want decent cycling country.
Fair enough, and you're right. The scenery on the Wales Dragon blew me away the first time I rode it. Reminded me of the Alps.
OK, not quite, but the Breacons are breathtaking.0 -
I think the underlying issue here is that cycling is different things to different people.
To some it's casual light exercise, the equivalent of going out for a stroll; to some it's serious exercise but on an individual basis, the equivalent of going for a run; to some it's just a handy way to get to work; to some it's a group sport with rules, history, traditions. (And that's just road cycling, you can bring in the dh adrenaline junkies, trials bike gymnasts and more.)
In the world of the sportive, some of these worlds collide. I started cycling for fun (off road), tried commuting on my mtb, then found myself getting sucked into the strange world of the roadie. But I don't really have any interest in joining a club, not because I think there's something wrong with them, it's just not what I'm looking for.
A lot of people who go out jogging a bit think to themselves "I wonder what it's like running a marathon?"; I think that this, together with the big event buzz, is the attraction of both the big running and cycling events. That, and the feeling that on most rides, I'm a chubby middle aged guy just trying to get to work, but on a sportive, well, what's the difference between the TDF pros and me? Just a few mph, that's all!
I've only entered one sportive (the Etape C, twice: not a normal sportive due to the closed roads - a very big part of the appeal to me) but I think that, apart from the cheap bike, I would fit the profile of the much-derided sportive noob very well: not really a Real Cyclist, don't know how to ride in a bunch, riding faster than I can ride (I couldn't quite make sense of this particular criticism, I must admit). But simple common sense, good manners and self-preservation should cover most of the "rules", and I can't disagree with the OP that there are some riders who seem to be surprisingly lacking in those basics - I think I'd pretty much worked out the drill by about mile 3 of my first Etape C; as for racing etiquette (drafting etc), well, shouldn't the Real Cyclists be able to just drop the wheel-suckers if they're annoying you so much?
And finally, the catch-all argument of the BR forums... there are plenty of club runs, chain gangs, sportives, audaxes, races etc. to go round, if you prefer one or other of these, do that and don't moan about the rest!0 -
bompington wrote:I think the underlying issue here is that cycling is different things to different people.
To some it's casual light exercise, the equivalent of going out for a stroll; to some it's serious exercise but on an individual basis, the equivalent of going for a run; to some it's just a handy way to get to work; to some it's a group sport with rules, history, traditions. (And that's just road cycling, you can bring in the dh adrenaline junkies, trials bike gymnasts and more.)
In the world of the sportive, some of these worlds collide. I started cycling for fun (off road), tried commuting on my mtb, then found myself getting sucked into the strange world of the roadie. But I don't really have any interest in joining a club, not because I think there's something wrong with them, it's just not what I'm looking for.
A lot of people who go out jogging a bit think to themselves "I wonder what it's like running a marathon?"; I think that this, together with the big event buzz, is the attraction of both the big running and cycling events. That, and the feeling that on most rides, I'm a chubby middle aged guy just trying to get to work, but on a sportive, well, what's the difference between the TDF pros and me? Just a few mph, that's all!
I've only entered one sportive (the Etape C, twice: not a normal sportive due to the closed roads - a very big part of the appeal to me) but I think that, apart from the cheap bike, I would fit the profile of the much-derided sportive noob very well: not really a Real Cyclist, don't know how to ride in a bunch, riding faster than I can ride (I couldn't quite make sense of this particular criticism, I must admit). But simple common sense, good manners and self-preservation should cover most of the "rules", and I can't disagree with the OP that there are some riders who seem to be surprisingly lacking in those basics - I think I'd pretty much worked out the drill by about mile 3 of my first Etape C; as for racing etiquette (drafting etc), well, shouldn't the Real Cyclists be able to just drop the wheel-suckers if they're annoying you so much?
And finally, the catch-all argument of the BR forums... there are plenty of club runs, chain gangs, sportives, audaxes, races etc. to go round, if you prefer one or other of these, do that and don't moan about the rest!
You sir, are a scholar among men.
Nice post.0 -
sampras38 wrote:redddraggon wrote:Sportives just seem like an expensive club run, with people who ride bikes like trianthelopes.
P.S. I've not done a Sportive and I can't imagine I will when I can do a club run for free.
Completely different and I really can't believe people are comparing the two. How can you compare something like the Wales Dragon with a club run?
Depends which club . I've ridden a couple of times with Cardiff clubs on their Sunday club runs, and we rode a fair bit of the Dragon route. One was 75 miles at almost 18mph average, and I had turned up with a bottle of GO and a Mars bar expecting a gentle 20 mile pootle to a caff and 20 back. 0 -
Dombo6 wrote:sampras38 wrote:redddraggon wrote:Sportives just seem like an expensive club run, with people who ride bikes like trianthelopes.
P.S. I've not done a Sportive and I can't imagine I will when I can do a club run for free.
Completely different and I really can't believe people are comparing the two. How can you compare something like the Wales Dragon with a club run?
Depends which club . I've ridden a couple of times with Cardiff clubs on their Sunday club runs, and we rode a fair bit of the Dragon route. One was 75 miles at almost 18mph average, and I had turned up with a bottle of GO and a Mars bar expecting a gentle 20 mile pootle to a caff and 20 back.
None of my local clubs are anywhere near wales, but yeah, I take you're point and you're always going to have exceptions if you look hard enough. I was obviously generalising.0 -
sampras38 wrote:Dombo6 wrote:sampras38 wrote:redddraggon wrote:Sportives just seem like an expensive club run, with people who ride bikes like trianthelopes.
P.S. I've not done a Sportive and I can't imagine I will when I can do a club run for free.
Completely different and I really can't believe people are comparing the two. How can you compare something like the Wales Dragon with a club run?
Depends which club . I've ridden a couple of times with Cardiff clubs on their Sunday club runs, and we rode a fair bit of the Dragon route. One was 75 miles at almost 18mph average, and I had turned up with a bottle of GO and a Mars bar expecting a gentle 20 mile pootle to a caff and 20 back.
None of my local clubs are anywhere near wales, but yeah, I take you're point and you're always going to have exceptions if you look hard enough. I was obviously generalising.
Mine are though, and you were replying to me 0 -
Bompington is spot on.
I'm a very keen runner, I do at least 15 miles a week. Sometimes it's on my own, sometimes with a partner, It's always free.
However it is nothing like the experience of doing the Manchester 10k or Great North Run. The buzz is amazing, and I got something similar from my first sportive.
If a little money also goes to Charity then that's an added bonus.
Each to his own.
Anyway, if you think the standard of behaviour is bad on your average sportive, don't ever attempt the Manchester to Blackpool bike ride. :shock:0 -
Why thankyou.sampras38 wrote:You sir, are a scholar among men.
Nice post.
I am self-aware enough to realise that I can generate opinionated, self-important, contentious or just plain pointless nonsense as bad as anyone here - well, most of you anyway, the rest: you know who you are - but I do like to think that I have the basics of life, the universe and cycling reasonably straight.
I've always worked under the assumption that people come across worse on internet forums than in reality - so I go on the principle that in reality, you're all nearly as clever and nice as me.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:
So you stop when you see a pothole? Well done!!Dr U Idh wrote:About this "pointing" thing. Doesn't the Highway Code tell every road user that they're supposed to leave a gap and that they should be able to stop in the distance they can see? Doesn't every Sportive rule-book point out that all riders are supposed to adhere to the Highway Code?
The idea of pointing is to warn of potential hazards such as parked cars, joggers, other cyclists potholes etc, are you suggesting you stop when you encounter any of these?
Or are you just suggesting that everyone leaves a 10 metre gap between riders which is just as silly.
I'm suggesting that it's not Sportives that are the problem, it's those riders who can't obey the basic rules of the road, regardless of what ever they are participating in. If you are behind another rider and can't see the condition of the road you are about to cycle on then you are clearly too close. If a rider in front has to slow down or stop suddenly and a following rider hits them, then it is clearly the following riders fault for being too close.0 -
Dr U Idh wrote:I'm suggesting that it's not Sportives that are the problem, it's those riders who can't obey the basic rules of the road, regardless of what ever they are participating in. If you are behind another rider and can't see the condition of the road you are about to cycle on then you are clearly too close. If a rider in front has to slow down or stop suddenly and a following rider hits them, then it is clearly the following riders fault for being too close.
have you done much bunch riding..?0 -
Dr U Idh wrote:oldwelshman wrote:
So you stop when you see a pothole? Well done!!Dr U Idh wrote:About this "pointing" thing. Doesn't the Highway Code tell every road user that they're supposed to leave a gap and that they should be able to stop in the distance they can see? Doesn't every Sportive rule-book point out that all riders are supposed to adhere to the Highway Code?
The idea of pointing is to warn of potential hazards such as parked cars, joggers, other cyclists potholes etc, are you suggesting you stop when you encounter any of these?
Or are you just suggesting that everyone leaves a 10 metre gap between riders which is just as silly.
I'm suggesting that it's not Sportives that are the problem, it's those riders who can't obey the basic rules of the road, regardless of what ever they are participating in. If you are behind another rider and can't see the condition of the road you are about to cycle on then you are clearly too close. If a rider in front has to slow down or stop suddenly and a following rider hits them, then it is clearly the following riders fault for being too close.
I'm sorry, but you clearly don't understand about riding in a group. For it to be of any benefit, it's necessary for riders to be within a few inches of the wheel in front. This is why it is not something to be taken lightly when riding with strangers.
I only draft cyclists that I think I can trust to signal hazards and not do anything sudden or dangerous.0 -
Nickwill wrote:Dr U Idh wrote:oldwelshman wrote:
So you stop when you see a pothole? Well done!!Dr U Idh wrote:About this "pointing" thing. Doesn't the Highway Code tell every road user that they're supposed to leave a gap and that they should be able to stop in the distance they can see? Doesn't every Sportive rule-book point out that all riders are supposed to adhere to the Highway Code?
The idea of pointing is to warn of potential hazards such as parked cars, joggers, other cyclists potholes etc, are you suggesting you stop when you encounter any of these?
Or are you just suggesting that everyone leaves a 10 metre gap between riders which is just as silly.
I'm suggesting that it's not Sportives that are the problem, it's those riders who can't obey the basic rules of the road, regardless of what ever they are participating in. If you are behind another rider and can't see the condition of the road you are about to cycle on then you are clearly too close. If a rider in front has to slow down or stop suddenly and a following rider hits them, then it is clearly the following riders fault for being too close.
I'm sorry, but you clearly don't understand about riding in a group. For it to be of any benefit, it's necessary for riders to be within a few inches of the wheel in front. This is why it is not something to be taken lightly when riding with strangers.
I only draft cyclists that I think I can trust to signal hazards and not do anything sudden or dangerous.
Is it OK for articulated lorries to follow each other at 60mph on the motorways to get a similar benefit then?0 -
THe trust between cyclists riding in a group is one of the special things about the sport. Accidents rarely happen. I'm beginning to think that Dr U ldh is inclined to live under bridges, going on some of his comments in this thread!0
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Nickwill wrote:THe trust between cyclists riding in a group is one of the special things about the sport. Accidents rarely happen.
Profound, but oh so true Nick. It's one of the real pleasures of the sport but impossible to describe unless you've done it been a part of it. Like explaining colour to a blind person I guess.Peter Bragg
www.shuttvr.com0 -
I'm really just trying to point out that the OP doesn't have any moral high-ground to stand on. If hes not comfy around other riders, it's his responsibility to steer clear of them, not moan about it.0
