Are sportifs wrong?
Comments
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chugger wrote:If only clubs would move out of the 19th century into the 21st then Sportives would become much less common. I have done 1 sportive - the TdF London to Canterbury and it was ok. We did witness some terrible and often dangerous riding but thankfully it was a minority. The worst riders are usually those that are would-be "racers", can't hack a real race so throw their weight around in a sportive.
I think a lot of newbies enter a sportive because it's a lot less intimidating than a club [see 1st point] BUT there has to be etiquette when bunch riding for safety and politeness. On a club run about 3 years ago someone neglected to point out a pothole, the rider came off and wrecked his front wheel, fortunately he was a lot less confrontational than I would have been.
Many sportives have just become a licence to print money and and spread litter around the countryside. {waits for the flack]
We are a new club who encourage and teach new riders, all are welcome and there is zero arrogance and non would be tolerated. My advice would be to join one and if enough people do, the older traditional ones will be forced to change.
I don't think it's right to generalise from the experience of one sportive. I would doubt that a ride over that sort of terrain would attract a high proportion of regular sportive riders, rather, it might appeal more to casual cyclists fancying a challenge. There are problems with group skills but in all the rides I have done, I've never found myself put in danger by inexperienced riders. Maybe it's because I tend to do the more demanding ultra hilly routes. Sportives are the way forward for road cycling in Britain, and there is a need for more clubs to welcome potential new recruits, rather than feel threatened by the increasing popularity that sportives bring to road cycling.0 -
Nickwill wrote:Sportives are the way forward for road cycling in Britain, and there is a need for more clubs to welcome potential new recruits, rather than feel threatened by the increasing popularity that sportives bring to road cycling.
I think the reason many "older" riders in clubs have reservations about sportives is that they are being promoted to the detriment of actual road racing. Why go through the bother of getting the Police/Highways commission involved when you can have thousands of riders paying £30+ a piece and have none of the hassle (and also make a fortune in the process)?"A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:
I think the reason many "older" riders in clubs have reservations about sportives is that they are being promoted to the detriment of actual road racing. Why go through the bother of getting the Police/Highways commission involved when you can have thousands of riders paying £30+ a piece and have none of the hassle (and also make a fortune in the process)?
This is certainly not the case down here in the Midlands and is in fact, quite the opposite. My club realises the benefits of sportives as a means of increasing interest in racing. Indeed, a number of ex-sportivers have now obtained their BC licence making our attempts to hold more road races viable. Sportives can act as good feeder to the sport. Nonetheless, sportivers do need familiarisation with good bunch riding techniques for race formation, as with any other newcomers to racing.0 -
Sportives seem popular enough for people to be organising and making money from them, looks to me like they are just giving a lot of cyclists what they want? You pays your money, you makes your choice. No-one was ever forced to do `em
Also, why do people assume it`s only "novice" riders that ride them? Seems to be people from all walks of life, ages etc, some newbies, some been cycling for years and fancy something different ? Just `coz someone has been riding since the dawn of time, with or without a club, it doesn`t neccesarily make them a competent rider.Jens says "Shut up legs !! "
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Surely some of it is common sense anyway ! I mean, when I'm riding a sportive, audax or just a run with my mates, it's second nature to point out an obstacle, or say when a junction is clear - isn't it ?
I'm not in a club, and I've managed to learn to ride OK, including in groups - probably all that watching of the pros on Eurosport. Picked up some useful info there.
Some forumers have said that the organisers of sportives should give out an info leaflet. Sounds quite good idea, but I think all they really need to say is that if your new to sportives, try your best to keep to the left, so that experienced sportivistes can pass on the right (ok, I know, sounds too easy).
Oh, and re the 'open jacket' business - what a load of old tosh. Just been watching Tirreno-Adriatico the past few days, and quite a few had their jackets open. Are they just being novices then ? !!"There are no hills, there is no wind, I feel no pain !"
"A bad day on the bike is always better than a good day in the office !"0 -
Philip Whiteman wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:
I think the reason many "older" riders in clubs have reservations about sportives is that they are being promoted to the detriment of actual road racing. Why go through the bother of getting the Police/Highways commission involved when you can have thousands of riders paying £30+ a piece and have none of the hassle (and also make a fortune in the process)?
This is certainly not the case down here in the Midlands and is in fact, quite the opposite. My club realises the benefits of sportives as a means of increasing interest in racing. Indeed, a number of ex-sportivers have now obtained their BC licence making our attempts to hold more road races viable. Sportives can act as good feeder to the sport. Nonetheless, sportivers do need familiarisation with good bunch riding techniques for race formation, as with any other newcomers to racing.
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Why does holding a BC license make racing more viable? Everyone in my club, and the other clubs who organise races in the area also hold licenses. Doesn't stop the police or highways agency not giving the go ahead, which is more often than not the case, more so this year."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
I do think that there is something of the anti Sky Team attitude in the anti sportive viewpoint.
To some extent we all rather like to bathe in the self satisfaction of being part of the rather exclusive minority cult of cycling. I sometimes think that many cyclists secretly resent the idea that their sport might become more mainstream.0 -
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I think sportives are good if they're in a different part of the country, it's all sign posted I think the way round, so in a way you're paying for people to read the map, but any sportive around the Manchester/cheshire area or Yorkshire area, I'd be stupid to enter them, as I ride those roads on club runs and on my own.
I reckon a sportive in another part of the country should cost around 6 quid each for like the organisation or the event, and then how ever much it costs for 2 bottles of energy drink and a gel.0 -
I can understand your scepticism, but you really ought to try one! It's just a real buzz riding one of the big events, and it's refreshing being able to move between groups. I push myself much harder on a sportive than I would on a club run, and pushing for a time is an important element to me. The Fred Whitton and the Dragon Ride are both very different events, but in their different ways, epitomise what British sportives are all about!0
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If you look at the majority of cycling clubs you will see that most of them do not even support sportives. I do sportives and I am in a club but to be blunt 80% of the members of cycling clubs think sportives are for newbies/gringos and are unsafe due to new riders.
I think sportives are a great way in to cycling. As a more experienced cyclists it is up to you to point out hazards and give the shouts. By doing this new cyclists learn group riding skills and will copy the actions of more experanced cyclists.
A lof of people new to cycling will not like the club scene due to it being competitive and selective and requiring a high level of fitness. However I welcome that some clubs are better than others in getting new members in but some are not and dont wish new members who can not ride good.
Most clubs do not support sportives as the are more focused on their own TT, Races and club events. I would like to see more cycling clubs embrace sportives but as I say it is in my view most clubs see sportives as events fror noobs and not proper cyclist. Yes it is a little snobby but cycling clubs are folks, sad but true I'm afraid.0 -
redddraggon wrote:Sportives just seem like an expensive club run, with people who ride bikes like trianthelopes.
P.S. I've not done a Sportive and I can't imagine I will when I can do a club run for free.
Completely different and I really can't believe people are comparing the two. How can you compare something like the Wales Dragon with a club run?
3500 riders of all abilities, including ex pros etc, riding up and down the Breacon Beacons over 100 miles against the clock. All I can say is you must have been on some incredible clubs runs..;-)0 -
Snoppy wrote:If you look at the majority of cycling clubs you will see that most of them do not even support sportives. I do sportives and I am in a club but to be blunt 80% of the members of cycling clubs think sportives are for newbies/gringos and are unsafe due to new riders.
I think sportives are a great way in to cycling. As a more experienced cyclists it is up to you to point out hazards and give the shouts. By doing this new cyclists learn group riding skills and will copy the actions of more experanced cyclists.
A lof of people new to cycling will not like the club scene due to it being competitive and selective and requiring a high level of fitness. However I welcome that some clubs are better than others in getting new members in but some are not and dont wish new members who can not ride good.
Most clubs do not support sportives as the are more focused on their own TT, Races and club events. I would like to see more cycling clubs embrace sportives but as I say it is in my view most clubs see sportives as events fror noobs and not proper cyclist. Yes it is a little snobby but cycling clubs are folks, sad but true I'm afraid.
Not sure I agree with this and from my own experience I've not found club riders snobby about Sportives. Quite the opposite in fact. Most of the club riders I know regularly do Sportives, especially the big ones like the Wales Dragon, and they are very keen to do well in them.
I can understand people not wanting to do the shorter or more local ones but personally I love the big ones like Wales. It's a great buzz, and a buzz I rarely get on club runs.0 -
sampras38 wrote:redddraggon wrote:Sportives just seem like an expensive club run, with people who ride bikes like trianthelopes.
P.S. I've not done a Sportive and I can't imagine I will when I can do a club run for free.
Completely different and I really can't believe people are comparing the two. How can you compare something like the Wales Dragon with a club run?
3500 riders of all abilities, including ex pros etc, riding up and down the Breacon Beacons over 100 miles against the clock. All I can say is you must have been on some incredible clubs runs..;-)
I've being on incredible club runs every week for weeks on end, the only benefit to a sportive is the food and drink you get, and it's a little competitive, but club runs can be competitive sometimes.0 -
Not sure I agree with this and from my own experience I've not found club riders snobby about Sportives. Quite the opposite in fact. Most of the club riders I know regularly do Sportives, especially the big ones like the Wales Dragon, and they are very keen to do well in them.
I can understand people not wanting to do the shorter or more local ones but personally I love the big ones like Wales. It's a great buzz, and a buzz I rarely get on club runs.
Yeah sure thing Hong Kong Phooey, some clubs are supportive of the sportive calendar than other. In Scotland in particular Border City Wheelers and Perth United always bring good numbers to events0 -
freehub wrote:sampras38 wrote:redddraggon wrote:Sportives just seem like an expensive club run, with people who ride bikes like trianthelopes.
P.S. I've not done a Sportive and I can't imagine I will when I can do a club run for free.
Completely different and I really can't believe people are comparing the two. How can you compare something like the Wales Dragon with a club run?
3500 riders of all abilities, including ex pros etc, riding up and down the Breacon Beacons over 100 miles against the clock. All I can say is you must have been on some incredible clubs runs..;-)
I've being on incredible club runs every week for weeks on end, the only benefit to a sportive is the food and drink you get, and it's a little competitive, but club runs can be competitive sometimes.
With the greatest of respect that's complete tosh. You often ride with over 3000 others do you?0 -
Snoppy wrote:Not sure I agree with this and from my own experience I've not found club riders snobby about Sportives. Quite the opposite in fact. Most of the club riders I know regularly do Sportives, especially the big ones like the Wales Dragon, and they are very keen to do well in them.
I can understand people not wanting to do the shorter or more local ones but personally I love the big ones like Wales. It's a great buzz, and a buzz I rarely get on club runs.
Yeah sure thing Hong Kong Phooey, some clubs are supportive of the sportive calendar than other. In Scotland in particular Border City Wheelers and Perth United always bring good numbers to events
And personally I think any club cyclist who is against Sportives is probably going to be some elitest pillock anyway and I've come across a few in my time, a lot which aren't actually that good on a bike. Just very set in their ways.0 -
This exactly the kind of a*sehole attitude that makes me ashamed to even own a road bike. Ride, enjoy riding and quit with the stupid elitist attitude that will ensure the eventual decline of your old fashioned cycling clubs.0
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[/quote]And personally I think any club cyclist who is against Sportives is probably going to be some elitest pillock anyway and I've come across a few in my time, a lot which aren't actually that good on a bike. Just very set in their ways.[/quote]
Thats a bit harsh, unless you know every club cyclist in britain personally and can comment on them.
I know several very good riders who are against them not because of any elitist attitude but more because of what they reagard as extortionist cost and some poor riding by some people as OP stated.
I also do not see where the OP stated that his points related to novices.
from my experience it is not the novices that demonstrate the crap riding and etiquette but more wanabee racers not fit enough or fast enough to race, yet the draft anyone they can, go through lights, dengerous in groups etc trying to get a fast a time as possible.
Most novices I have seen tend to be quite tentative but safe.
I have ridden with a few for short periods for a chat and they often ask for advice. I wonder how many wanabee racers have stopped and chatted with "novices 2 during a ride, not many probably as they want to get a bronze probably !!
There are also many racing guys who now do sportives also so thers a mixture of riders and abilities, just depends where you end up on a ride as to how lucky you are with respect to bad or good riding. I have been in some good groups on dragon ride once, and on another ride towed some riders for miles without them going through or even saying that they were too tired not to.
You alwyas have the choice to ride them or not.
Personally I do not ride them now for cost reasons mainly, niot too worried about quality of riders as you can ride along with the good ones and drop the crap ones
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01djb wrote:This exactly the kind of a*sehole attitude that makes me ashamed to even own a road bike. Ride, enjoy riding and quit with the stupid elitist attitude that will ensure the eventual decline of your old fashioned cycling clubs.
Amen to that brother....;-)
It's 2 wheels on a bit of metal fgs..0 -
sampras38 wrote:freehub wrote:sampras38 wrote:redddraggon wrote:Sportives just seem like an expensive club run, with people who ride bikes like trianthelopes.
P.S. I've not done a Sportive and I can't imagine I will when I can do a club run for free.
Completely different and I really can't believe people are comparing the two. How can you compare something like the Wales Dragon with a club run?
3500 riders of all abilities, including ex pros etc, riding up and down the Breacon Beacons over 100 miles against the clock. All I can say is you must have been on some incredible clubs runs..;-)
I've being on incredible club runs every week for weeks on end, the only benefit to a sportive is the food and drink you get, and it's a little competitive, but club runs can be competitive sometimes.
With the greatest of respect that's complete tosh. You often ride with over 3000 others do you?
Lol, what? So you are saying to make a ride incredible you have to ride with 3000 other people? Well sorry but with the greatest of respect that's compleate bull.
As I said, I'd only do a sportive if it's in a compleatly different area of the country I've never cycled before, it'd be a stupid waste of money doing it in my area when I cycle the same roads all the time, and I think the prices of sportives are not worth it, at all.And personally I think any club cyclist who is against Sportives is probably going to be some elitest pillock anyway and I've come across a few in my time, a lot which aren't actually that good on a bike. Just very set in their ways.
rubbish.0 -
Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, Etape, etc, they are worth doing. But I don't see the point in paying £25 odd quid to ride on normal everyday UK roads.
I don't need to pay to ride with a bunch of pretend racers to enjoy myself. I enjoy cycling for cycling, not for some overpriced overhyped events. If I want timed rides, I do something meaningful like a TT.
Perhaps it's because I live both in North Wales and right next to the Peak District, and not somewhere sh!tty like London, so 95% of my rides have great scenery and climbs on quiet roads, so I don't need "events".0 -
I will usually ride 2-3 each year just for the craic. The cost and the excess hype puts me right off riding events like the dragon, so I can see where some of these arguments are coming from, but at the end of the day they are just fun rides, and make a change from club runs, training rides and road races.....
The scenery thing I agree with - I'm lucky enough to be able to ride in stunning scenery every day, with big climbs and big descents - so I can understand why people would want to travel to experience that...0 -
My club seems to have more people taking part in Sportives than TTs. Recently there was the Surrey Rumble Sportive on the same day as the East Surrey Hardriders TT. There was good reason for the club's riders to enter the East Surrey Hardriders TT as it is one of the events in the club TT series, where you gain points for where you finish relative to other riders in the club, and there is a club TT series champion at the end of the year. But even with this incentive to take part, more people took part in the Surrey Rumble Sportive than the East Surrey Hardriders TT.Snoppy wrote:Most clubs do not support sportives as the are more focused on their own TT, Races and club events.0 -
About this "pointing" thing. Doesn't the Highway Code tell every road user that they're supposed to leave a gap and that they should be able to stop in the distance they can see? Doesn't every Sportive rule-book point out that all riders are supposed to adhere to the Highway Code?0
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Lots of discussion regarding the costs of sportives, whilst i agree some do charge extortionate prices, i think it depends on the location/terrain of the ride.lots of organisation needs to be taken into consideration, feed stops need to be manned, as do some dangerous junctions, then there are the folks at registration,everyone is insured, and usually we all get a tee shirt upon completion. Also most rides are usually run for a charity, so a percentage of entrance fee goes towards that. I don't mind paying up to £25.00 for participating, considering the entrance fee for a 90min football match £30+, it doesn't seem all that bad.0
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So you stop when you see a pothole? Well done!!Dr U Idh wrote:About this "pointing" thing. Doesn't the Highway Code tell every road user that they're supposed to leave a gap and that they should be able to stop in the distance they can see? Doesn't every Sportive rule-book point out that all riders are supposed to adhere to the Highway Code?
The idea of pointing is to warn of potential hazards such as parked cars, joggers, other cyclists potholes etc, are you suggesting you stop when you encounter any of these?
Or are you just suggesting that everyone leaves a 10 metre gap between riders which is just as silly.0 -
Ha ....I started quite a discussion there!
I suppose there is a right to reply, being a forum and all that.
So, if it was a discussion on driving on the motorway and I talked about cars accelerating past me without warning then slowing down dramatically, chaps driving slowly in the fast lane, ferrari drivers with L plates on, drivers forcing themselves into a lane after shoooting up an empty lane as road works approach, idiots who dont use indicators when its a legal requirement to do so, boy racers.......
Just because such behaviour is performed by cyclists doesn't make it right because "they're beginners". In fact as stated in one comment, most of the poor riding was performed by guys on £1500 bikes! I.e. absolutely no excuse. We all have a responsibility to learn skills if our failure to do so impacts on the safety of others.
Ok ok.....the jacket comment was unjustified, albeit light-hearted!I love technology0 -
Well I'm glad I do mine on a £120 bike then, that must mean I can get away with anythingMrRex wrote:most of the poor riding was performed by guys on £1500 bikes! I.e. absolutely no excuse.0
