Paris - Nice Stage 7 **Spoiler**

frenchfighter

No spoiler for the final stage of the most prestigious early stage race of the season! I missed it but it sounds pretty interesting on the tickers:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/68th-p ... ive-report

Stage:

1 Amaël Moinard (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
2 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom
3 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
4 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale
5 Reine Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne
6 Joaquim Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha
7 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team Saxo Bank
8 Christopher Horner (USA) Team RadioShack
9 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Team RadioShack
10 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana

Final General Classification

1 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana
2 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
3 Luis-Leon Sanchez (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
4 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas - Doimo
5 Samuel Sanchez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
6 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team Saxo Bank
7 Joaquim Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha
8 Reine Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne
9 Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) Omega Pharma - Lotto
10 Jérôme Coppel (Fra) Saur - Sojasun

Sagan lost a lot of time.

Contador demonstrates once again who the best stage racer in the World is. That is two week long stage races and two mountain top stage wins so far this year and we are only half way through March. Pure class and Champion material. Nice to see my favourites making the top three on GC, all attacking, successful, stylish and exciting riders.

afx237vi

Amael Moinard's sprinting style is hilarious.

frenchfighter

Can't believe Voeckler lit the race up towards the end as he often does then got pipped on the line...would have been nice to update my sig with a win by him.

Last km
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozon ... n/1.736250

frenchfighter

Levi would have won TofCalifornia already by this time in the year so odd to see his form so off the pace, unless he is holding all back and not training overly much to be peaking for TofC this year.

Bakunin

The attacks came fast and furious today, yet AC covered everything and did what he had too. It does get you thinking about what the strong teams of the Tour will do to isolate and wear AC down. Caisse, Shack, Liquigas, Saxo, and Rabo have some options.

While Astana was ok this week, it makes you wonder what they will do in July. I expect that Contador will not want yellow too early.

Geez, he looks good though.

frenchfighter

Bakunin wrote:

While Astana was ok this week, it makes you wonder what they will do in July. I expect that Contador will not want yellow too early.

I agree. Astana's performance this year hasn't been great. I certainly hope there is significantly more support and depth of team by the time he goes for GC in a Grand Tour.

Bakunin

Chris Horner was 9th today.

Is he this year's Wiggans?

Or does he have special sauce on his eggs?

frenchfighter

He has always been a decent rider especially early on although he hasn't won anything I can think of. I don't think he has any GC hopes at all but is a super domestique. He did a lot to help Contador. It would have been interesting to see him included in the Astana team...

Bakunin

Yeah, I really like him, especially when he was outspoken about shenanigans.

In the last procycling, he talks about riding on another level...

Kléber

frenchfighter wrote:

Bakunin wrote:

While Astana was ok this week, it makes you wonder what they will do in July. I expect that Contador will not want yellow too early.

I agree. Astana's performance this year hasn't been great. I certainly hope there is significantly more support and depth of team by the time he goes for GC in a Grand Tour.

Despite a different roster Astana were the same at Paris-Nice last year, Contador was on his own then as well. Don't forget some of the team is in Italy and that the aim is to be ready for July.

blazing_saddles

Good day for Astana all round. Looking good in Italy. 2 out of 3.
Cadel turns up, too.

frenchfighter

30 mins of todays stage in three videos:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f

LangerDan

afx237vi wrote:

Amael Moinard's sprinting style is hilarious.

Obviously works, though

Is it a condition of holding a French racing licence that any big effort must be accompanied by hanging your tongue out like a dog trapped in a hot car? If Moreau isn't doing it, its Tommy Voeckler although Moinard was fairly spectacular in the gallop. He looked like that Chief Raoni with the disc in his lip that Sting used to bring out of the rainforest.

Defo a more exciting stage than yesterday's!

frenchfighter

Contador attacked them twice on the ascent, pulled hard on the front on the descent and even attacked Valv and Joaquim for a few bonus seconds. That's quality - no defensive riding.

avoidingmyphd

What happened at the back though? A third of the field abandoned!
And only yesterday, Millar was quoted as saying there's no autobus in this race. Apparently there is, quite literally.

frenchfighter

Disappointed with Dan Martin. He didn't have anyone to work for so would have been nice to see him trying to be up there. Obviously he didn't have the form but I hope he improves quickly as the year goes on.

frenchfighter

avoidingmyphd wrote:

What happened at the back though? A third of the field abandoned!
And only yesterday, Millar was quoted as saying there's no autobus in this race. Apparently there is, quite literally.

Yeah that was a surprising amount of riders.

Cumulonimbus

frenchfighter wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

What happened at the back though? A third of the field abandoned!
And only yesterday, Millar was quoted as saying there's no autobus in this race. Apparently there is, quite literally.

Yeah that was a surprising amount of riders.

I was looking at previous year's results last night and a lot seem to drop out on the last stage each year. Im not sure if the course is identical every year but the middle climb is just above Nice. By that time a lot of people would be dropped so i guess they probably just ride back to nice from there or something?

frenchfighter

I guess that makes sense.

avoidingmyphd

Cumulonimbus wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

What happened at the back though? A third of the field abandoned!
And only yesterday, Millar was quoted as saying there's no autobus in this race. Apparently there is, quite literally.

Yeah that was a surprising amount of riders.

I was looking at previous year's results last night and a lot seem to drop out on the last stage each year. Im not sure if the course is identical every year but the middle climb is just above Nice. By that time a lot of people would be dropped so i guess they probably just ride back to nice from there or something?

Indeed - I just looked at the map, and the temptation is obvious now you mention it. The two cols near the end are in a little loop and a lot of the roads between the cols also feature again after the second one.

So after dropping down from la Turbie, you can drop out and freewheel down to Nice, or ride a big loop up the Col d'Eze and back down to exactly where you are already, and race into Nice.

dave_1

avoidingmyphd wrote:

What happened at the back though? A third of the field abandoned!
And only yesterday, Millar was quoted as saying there's no autobus in this race. Apparently there is, quite literally.

But not literally, in reality
The autobus is-or was- a term that usually refers to the last big group of riders on the road on a mountain stage who are not eliminated usually due to more experienced riders who calculate what speed they think the autobus needs to ride at and riders do bit in bit to keep the group inside the timecut. They ride not too slow or not faster than necessary, they work either way...hard or slow...idea being a big group of riders stick together and the race organisers can't eliminate 50 riders at one go -which is really the strength in numbers protection the autobus offers weakers riders, esp when organisers try to enforce time limits which will remove 40% of the field and they then realise the bunch will look small and teams will be down to 1 rider or 0. I think Millar is saying the race is too fast for a big group to ride slowly to the finish and still make the time cut. That's my reading of it anyways.

micron

Astana seem to have their stronger team in Italy - unsurprising really when AC is capable of doing what he needs to to get the win and the Astana tactics were much superior to last year (when AC really was hung out to dry with a ridiculously weak team) - some nice bluffing on the ;last couple of stages to keep the team from doing all the work and allow AC to shelter. Coupled with the result at T-A they look OK.

The problem for all the other teams is that, however much they try to isolate AC, they will only ever be giving him an armchair ride until the point he decides to attack and leave them floundering - and there are no riders, apparently, who can match that acceleration when AC seriously attacks. I thought Caisse were really disappointing - they pretty much conceded the win yesterday and today and Valverde, beyond sprinting for bonus seconds, didn't try and trouble Contador.

Bakunin

micron wrote:

Astana seem to have their stronger team in Italy - unsurprising really when AC is capable of doing what he needs to to get the win and the Astana tactics were much superior to last year (when AC really was hung out to dry with a ridiculously weak team) - some nice bluffing on the ;last couple of stages to keep the team from doing all the work and allow AC to shelter. Coupled with the result at T-A they look OK.

The problem for all the other teams is that, however much they try to isolate AC, they will only ever be giving him an armchair ride until the point he decides to attack and leave them floundering - and there are no riders, apparently, who can match that acceleration when AC seriously attacks. I thought Caisse were really disappointing - they pretty much conceded the win yesterday and today and Valverde, beyond sprinting for bonus seconds, didn't try and trouble Contador.

Was that payback for last year's Dauphine?

avoidingmyphd

Dave_1 wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

What happened at the back though? A third of the field abandoned!
And only yesterday, Millar was quoted as saying there's no autobus in this race. Apparently there is, quite literally.

But not literally, in reality
The autobus is-or was- a term that usually refers to the last big group of riders on the road on a mountain stage who are not eliminated usually due to more experienced riders who calculate what speed they think the autobus needs to ride at and riders do bit in bit to keep the group inside the timecut. They ride not too slow or not faster than necessary, they work either way...hard or slow...idea being a big group of riders stick together and the race organisers can't eliminate 50 riders at one go -which is really the strength in numbers protection the autobus offers weakers riders, esp when organisers try to enforce time limits which will remove 40% of the field and they then realise the bunch will look small and teams will be down to 1 rider or 0. I think Millar is saying the race is too fast for a big group to ride slowly to the finish and still make the time cut. That's my reading of it anyways.

er, hence the "literally" in my post: metaphorical autobus in normal bike races, seems like the same riders opted for a real one in this race

I understood Millar's point differently though: I didn't think he was talking (directly) about the risk of missing the time cut off, but rather commenting that a lot of riders (riders similar to him in ability, form etc) who voluntarily swell the autobus in other races for a variety of reasons don't do so in this race (it's short so no recovery issues, people are there for intense training so sitting up defeats the purpose, people stand a chance on GC here who otherwise ride the bus etc). The consequence is a harder race because more people are actually racing rather than complicating the sport riding slower than they actually can.

dave_1

avoidingmyphd wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

What happened at the back though? A third of the field abandoned!
And only yesterday, Millar was quoted as saying there's no autobus in this race. Apparently there is, quite literally.

But not literally, in reality
The autobus is-or was- a term that usually refers to the last big group of riders on the road on a mountain stage who are not eliminated usually due to more experienced riders who calculate what speed they think the autobus needs to ride at and riders do bit in bit to keep the group inside the timecut. They ride not too slow or not faster than necessary, they work either way...hard or slow...idea being a big group of riders stick together and the race organisers can't eliminate 50 riders at one go -which is really the strength in numbers protection the autobus offers weakers riders, esp when organisers try to enforce time limits which will remove 40% of the field and they then realise the bunch will look small and teams will be down to 1 rider or 0. I think Millar is saying the race is too fast for a big group to ride slowly to the finish and still make the time cut. That's my reading of it anyways.

er, hence the "literally" in my post: metaphorical autobus in normal bike races, seems like the same riders opted for a real one in this race

I understood Millar's point differently though: I didn't think he was talking (directly) about the risk of missing the time cut off, but rather commenting that a lot of riders (riders similar to him in ability, form etc) who voluntarily swell the autobus in other races for a variety of reasons don't do so in this race (it's short so no recovery issues, people are there for intense training so sitting up defeats the purpose, people stand a chance on GC here who otherwise ride the bus etc). The consequence is a harder race because more people are actually racing rather than complicating the sport riding slower than they actually can.

some readers perhaps may not know what autobus refers to ..., re"complicating the sport riding slower than they actually can" misses one important point..-you win bike races riding as slowly as you possibly can until the end. How can that complicate the sport? It's race tactics at the front, not only at the back

avoidingmyphd

I think we're at cross purposes Dave.

dave_1

avoidingmyphd wrote:

I think we're at cross purposes Dave.

The autobus is variously referred to as the stragglers, the tail end charlies, lanterne rouge etc, laughing group, so a crystal clear definition of the within time limit group is worth a post or two as your first post assume we all know what autobus means. As for complicating races, saving energy means riding to win as slowly as possible, how many forget that? Voeckler for one today.

Kléber

Dave_1 wrote:

saving energy means riding to win as slowly as possible, how many forget that? Voeckler for one today.

Was it Henk Lubberdink that said "racing is licking your opponent's plate clean before you even start on your own"? Either way Voeckler is known as a daft rider. Interviewed after the stage today Moinard said he knew Voeckler would go for a long sprint, even though there was a headwind. "I knew I'd pass him just before the line" said the Cofidis rider.

I have a lot of time for Voeckler, his attacking style can be exciting but it also reduces his chances of winning a lot.

frenchfighter

Dave_1 wrote:

Voeckler for one today.

Great for the viewers though! He is probably one of the most loved riders.

Although he did come 2nd today which is a very good placing...are you suggesting he did too many turns at the front? Or that he tried to attack Moinard too many times? Certainly Moinard didn't look like he pulled much at all.

avoidingmyphd

Dave_1 wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

I think we're at cross purposes Dave.

The autobus is variously referred to as the stragglers, the tail end charlies, lanterne rouge etc, laughing group, so a crystal clear definition of the within time limit group is worth a post or two as your first post assume we all know what autobus means. As for complicating races, saving energy means riding to win as slowly as possible, how many forget that? Voeckler for one today.

I mean we agree on lots, and if we're disagreeing on anything here, it's a bit weird.

You are right (i like your 2nd formulation better btw) that saving energy means riding to win as slowly as possible. But that has nothing to do with the autobus. It's safe to say they have gone too slow! But some of the riders in the autobus (although not so many in the Paris Nice autobus, on my reading of Millar's comments) are there for strategic reasons, not because that's their level. They make cycling complicated, or at the very least they are a symptom of its complexity.

FrenchFighter, Voeckler did do a lot of work today (not just turns, but also his failed attack on the col d'eze), but I think the criticism of him is focussed simply on the fact that he went waaaay too soon in the final 2-man sprint and played into Moinard's hands. This was obvious from many sofas! [The cyclingnews report attributes this to him panicking about the chasers catching them, but I think that basically he made a mistake.]

jerry3571

I think, if I understand, that riders sit in the autobus to take it easy so they have fresh legs for the next days racing when they may be wanting to go for the stage win. Vino before he was banned used to have alternate days of being up for the win and then the next day taking it easy. Cunego did the same in the Vuelta last year reserving his energy for the specific stages he had targetted. (I've probably misread the thread here and got the wrong end of the stick but there you go).

I think AC did ok today and Caisse de' didn't really have the firepower. AC knew that being with LL Sanchez on the descent was a bad move so he kept Sanchez at bay. I think Katusha and Gregorio did AC some big favours at the bottom of the final climb keeping the pace high enough to stop any trouble breaking out (should've been Astana doing the pace there at that point). On the descent when LL Sanchez caught Valverde, AC etc then there was a possibility of trouble. When the big group caught AC et al then it was all over. No one was going to get away as most riders having their own agendas; stage win etc.
AC won the race today rather than not losing ther race. Chapeau!!

-Jerry

Madrid gets night time temperatures, the same as the Uk, so it can get cold there. Last Xmas the outskirts of Madrid got below -13c; bit parky!

-Jerry