Wheel buying virgin seeks reassurance

rake

there there its allright.

Evil Laugh

I recently went through a similar level of wheel upgrade to what you're considering.

I upgraded from Shimano RS10s to Dura Ace 7850 carbon clinchers.

The upgrade dropped roughly 1kg from the wheels.

Initially I didn't feel massively impressed, ride was a bit nicer, nothing too special.

Then I put the power down. On the flat or up hills, the difference was staggering. I kept slowing down and accelerating just to see if it made me smile again. I could maintain the speed for ages too. A proper hallelujah moment. They feel much more connected/comfortable at high speeds. I think this is where the carbon rims really come into their own and they have only increased the excellent feeling of connection to the road I get from my bike.

To be honest I had recently stopped smoking and bought the wheels as a treat for myself to see what the fuss was about. I didn't need new wheels but I really enjoy them and am glad I got them. I can definitely "feel a difference".

The only downside is that the wheels definitely flatter me and when I'm powering up the hills I know full well it's the wheels not my legs that are making the difference.

I know this is not totally relevant to your choices but hopefully is a useful account of what kind of "differences" can be "felt" if you decide to spend your presumably hard earned £.

Whether the Dura Ace wheels are a special case, I don't know, maybe someone else would.

However, I completely disagree with the guy who said the only difference would be durability.

macondo01

What colour CAAD9 do you have? I've got the matt black. Not particularlyl exciting, but the advantage is most wheels, with a dab of colour here and there, will look fantastic.

Mine has the Liquigas colours, the 2009 model. I have bought a few bits and bobs for it, Liquigas drink bottle (lol, I have an odd pleasure in buying this for £4, it really fits), michelin krylions, kool stops, and await a Toupe saddle.

I am undecided about wheels..still pondering. I am very happy with my bike. A huge difference in pleasure/feel and speed (but may be I got fitter) from my old Nigel Dean. My biggest achievement was doing a 20km tri section in 32 minutes. The first time I used the bike!

carl_p

I've the 2009 model also. £748 on Tiagra. Google CAAD9 Liquigas pictures to get ideas how you might pimp it up. I'm sure you could spend your money pretty quickly

macondo01

I know this is not totally relevant to your choices but hopefully is a useful account of what kind of "differences" can be "felt" if you decide to spend your presumably hard earned £.

Thank you, yes that's helpful to know. And well done for quitting the fags.

I've the 2009 model also. £748 on Tiagra. Google CAAD9 Liquigas pictures to get ideas how you might pimp it up. I'm sure you could spend your money pretty quickly

I think my pimping will be limited to buying another liquigas bottle for £4 if I am saving for some wheels! Googling would be a slippery slope!!

huuregeil

Macondo01 wrote:

huuregeil you mentioned about shimano hubs. Coincidentally I found this you tube about shimano wheels today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPW41cnuy30

I understand that some hubs are sealed and some not, like the shimano 6700's. Which are good shimano hubs for a build with ambrosio rims please? Also how would the R500's hubs be different to say the 6700's. The last time I took wheels apart was when I was a kid, buying a packet of steel ball bearings and greasing them into a wheel, tighten the cones. Has the technology changed that much?

I'm probably not the best person to ask about Shimano hubs, as I only own one set (XTs on my tourer), the others being ambrosio or campagnolo. But, basically, hubs use either cup-and-cone (the old tech) or sealed cartridge bearings. Proponents can argue about the benefits of either till the cows come home but I think cup-and-cone are superior in that well adjusted cup-and-cones run smoother than cartridges and are easily maintained. Cartridges, while good, are on a (very small) downhill slope from day one, and develop lateral play more easily, plus are more tricky to replace. The downside to cup-and-cones are more regular maintenance is required.

Basically, all shimano hubs are cup-and-cone, and good ones at that. More money buys you lower weight, better bearings, better seals (e.g. even though cup and cones aren't sealed in the same sense cartridges are, sealing is built into the internal design of the hub), more durable ratchet mechanism. Better in terms of seals means better at keeping crud out, and better in terms of rotating resistance. At the extreme end of hub design, lighter weight can mean poor durability, but you need to spend serious cash before that becomes and issue!

Squillinossett

I didnt realise what a difference wheels could make, when I popped the EA90 SLs I got on my Trek, the difference was huge over the Khamisins! felt like a different bike.

If you have £300, I would go for the handbuilds, I plan to get some of the Carbon ones off Derek as well when I have the cash spare, as he is very highly rated!

macondo01

didnt realise what a difference wheels could make, when I popped the EA90 SLs I got on my Trek, the difference was huge over the Khamisins! felt like a different bike.

If you have £300, I would go for the handbuilds, I plan to get some of the Carbon ones off Derek as well when I have the cash spare, as he is very highly rated!

My friend has those wheels and is pleased with them.

There seem a few people here who know of Derek and think highly of him. By the by someone recommended the Shimano RS80's, carbon wheels. Seems to get good reviews. My short list is getting longer!!

blorg

I have Easton EA90SLs myself, they are very nice wheels. Highly recommended. Likely to be a fair bit more expensive than the handbuilts discussed though... if you could get the Eastons under £300 I would not hesitate. Shimano RS80s I don't have but have heard only good things about.

Squillinossett

I might not have been too clear, what I was saying is that if you have £300 to spend on wheels, spend £300!

sturmey

I recently went through a similar level of wheel upgrade to what you're considering.

I upgraded from Shimano RS10s to Dura Ace 7850 carbon clinchers.

The upgrade dropped roughly 1kg from the wheel

500grammes would be more realistic an estimate here.

Evil Laugh

Yeah my mistake I thought the rs10s weighed nearly 2.5 kg

pastey_boy

Pro-Lite Bracciano,s look like a good wheel .sub 1500grams and hand built and only £250

macondo01

Was that the one reviewed in C+ - a few weeks back - I seem to remember it came out top, or variation did?

pastey_boy

yes it was that model. they seem awesome and chainreaction are doing them for £249

macondo01

pastey_boy

oh bugger sold out till early next month

oldwelshman

I recently purchased some wheels for my winter bike, shimano rs20's from merlin for £99, well impressed I may get another pair !!
As for upgrading to dura ace and finding acceleration and climbing massively improved, thats a falacy, marketting jargon or psychological its your legs and heart that improve performance .

macondo01

oldwelshman - well back down on earth the gas and electricity bill came yesterday so discussion of spending anything on wheels seems rather tricky now. :roll: Still tea a cup of tea brought to bed works wonders! Must say I am really enjoying reading The Hour by Michael Hutchinson, my first cycling book! But I digress.

blorg

oldwelshman wrote:

As for upgrading to dura ace and finding acceleration and climbing massively improved, thats a falacy, marketting jargon or psychological its your legs and heart that improve performance .

I agree, but there is a subjective "feel" that nice light wheels have that does make the bike more fun to ride. For most of us if not racing this "feel" is probably of more interest than the theoretical 0.1s you might actually gain up a climb. It does all add up too... although theoretically it should make little difference I do find on the occasions I have brought my tourer out on a club spin it does seem that much tougher to keep up on hills when the pace is being pushed (makes no difference on the flat that I can discern.)

Also rode light deep section tubular rims for the first time this weekend, despite my former deep scepticism christ I am now sold on the things. They feel phenomenal. Just need to get working on that team car in case of a puncture.

oldwelshman

blorg wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

As for upgrading to dura ace and finding acceleration and climbing massively improved, thats a falacy, marketting jargon or psychological its your legs and heart that improve performance .

I agree, but there is a subjective "feel" that nice light wheels have that does make the bike more fun to ride. For most of us if not racing this "feel" is probably of more interest than the theoretical 0.1s you might actually gain up a climb. It does all add up too... although theoretically it should make little difference I do find on the occasions I have brought my tourer out on a club spin it does seem that much tougher to keep up on hills when the pace is being pushed (makes no difference on the flat that I can discern.)

Also rode light deep section tubular rims for the first time this weekend, despite my former deep scepticism christ I am now sold on the things. They feel phenomenal. Just need to get working on that team car in case of a puncture.

Interesting I very rarely use my deep sections as they keep rattling my denture due to the shitty roads we have here so I tend to use dura ace clinchers and rs20's Unless I know I am going to be on a nice smooth even surface, usually in France or Italy

macondo01

Also rode light deep section tubular rims for the first time this weekend, despite my former deep scepticism christ I am now sold on the things. They feel phenomenal. Just need to get working on that team car in case of a puncture.

What was the wheel?

blorg

Macondo01 wrote:

What was the wheel?

Zipp 404 tubulars. I have few nice light clinchers (Mavic R-SYS, DT Swiss RR 1450, Easton EA90SL) but these things are just out of the ballpark in terms of feel. Light and aero, they make the bike feel like it is not there. Race only, this weekend one was a circuit and the other there was a team car albeit for the Cat1/2 race (I am a lowly Cat4), I think I would have had a possible rescue in case of utter disaster.

macondo01

Keeping it below £300'ish, here's the short list :roll:

Planet X Model B £100
Shimano RS20 £124
Ultegra 6700 £229
Pro-Lite Bracciano £249
Ambrosio hubs/rims Handbuilds £300
Shimano RS80 £324

mrchrispy

I've a set of the RS80's and I really like them.
I upgraded from a set of Mavic Aksium and it was like getting a new bike.

blorg

Macondo01 wrote:

Keeping it below £300'ish, here's the short list :roll:

Planet X Model B £100
Shimano RS20 £124
Ultegra 6700 £229
Pro-Lite Bracciano £249
Ambrosio hubs/rims Handbuilds £300
Shimano RS80 £324

Personally out of that list I would go for Pro-Lite Bracciano. Excellent weight for the money and they have received good reviews so I am presuming there is nothing radically wrong with them. RS80s would also be a good choice if you are happy spending the extra.

If you want to keep the cost down the PX Model Bs over the RS20s.

South Bound

lol, some great posts for wheel numpties like me, but with the roads the way they are, I would go for 3 sets of Model Bs....

oldwelshman

Macondo01 wrote:

Keeping it below £300'ish, here's the short list :roll:

Planet X Model B £100
Shimano RS20 £124
Ultegra 6700 £229
Pro-Lite Bracciano £249
Ambrosio hubs/rims Handbuilds £300
Shimano RS80 £324

RS20's £99 at merlin cycles

macondo01

Thanks Blorg and Oldwelshman!

micken

mrchrispy wrote:

I've a set of the RS80's and I really like them.
I upgraded from a set of Mavic Aksium and it was like getting a new bike.

Agree totally with this I tried out my wife's RS80s on my bike when I bought them for her last year, replacing my Aksiums.

Noticeably better at pulling away from start and climbing hills, no difference in top speed at all. I'll be looking for a £300 pair later this year and will seriously consider the RS80s and a few others mentioned in this thread, particularly EA90SLs and the Pro-Lites.